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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:19 pm 
First of all, I think we should put to rest that Cal Poly and Cal Davis are looking at the Big Sky.

They have a bus league for basketball.

And, if you actually look at the schedules of Poly and Davis, you'll see that other than their Ia payday games and their Great West games, they have an almost completely Big Sky schedule anyway! Poly actually does play an entirely Big Sky non conference schedule! Davis only added New Hampshire and SF Austin to their Big Sky NC games.

Nothing would change if NDSU and SDSU went to the Big Sky. They'd still be scheduling all the same Big Sky schools (including NDSU and SDSU) as well as SUU.


And, speaking of SUU, why does the Big Sky look down on them so much as far as athletics goes? No offense to Weber St., they're a great school, but SUU is classified as the same type of instituion as Weber!

Both are Master's II which means they award between 20-39 master's degrees per year, where as NDSU and SDSU are Doctoral II which means they award 20-49 PhD's per year.

So what's the deal with the BSC's hating of SUU?


ND Bison, I wasn't really referring to alumni donations when I meant "alumni in high places"! What I was referring to is the alumni on the state education boards. IE, the state giving more money to UND and USD to fund their departments.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:12 pm 
i agree about cal-poly and uc-davis being no gos for the big sky.

As a resident of North Dakota, I am pretty sure you won't see anyone anywhere except behind closed doors and off the record talk about state dollars being used to fund athletics.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:30 pm 
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No dice this time either. Since SDSU and NDSU's DI probation periods don't end until 2008-2009, next fall would be be the ideal time to begin a study, with an invitation in the summer of 2007, and play beginning in 2008.


Quote:
October 5th, 2005
FARGO, N.D.
Leaders of Big Sky Conference colleges continue to reject the idea of expanding the league that North Dakota State would like to join.
There are no plans to change the current format, a league spokesman said Wednesday after presidents of the schools met Wednesday in Salt Lake City.
"They don't see any reason to expand right now," said Ron Loghry, chief of staff of the Big Sky Conference.
The conference rejected NDSU's application last fall, when Northern Colorado was admitted to the league for the 2006-07 season. The Big Sky commissioner has said the league would probably have to expand to 12 teams and two divisions for NDSU to gain entry.
"They did discuss 12 teams - there was no interest in that," Loghry said of the presidents.
Gene Taylor, NDSU athletic director, said he hasn't talked with any Big Sky Conference officials about Wednesday's meeting.
"Right now I don't have anything to comment on," he said.
Loghry said it's likely that expansion will continue to be on the agenda for future meetings.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:06 pm 
The Big Sky will add Southern Utah when Portland State & Sacramento State join the WAC in 2010.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:39 am 

Quote:
i agree about cal-poly and uc-davis being no gos for the big sky.

As a resident of North Dakota, I am pretty sure you won't see anyone anywhere except behind closed doors and off the record talk about state dollars being used to fund athletics.


Well I guess you would know more than I would about the local ND politics scene.

But are their not UND alumni on the state boards?


I UND has built some new facilities in the recent past and there is some talk about building an indoor football and track facility that somewhat matches this:
Image

(a 300m running track surrounding an almost full size football field).

Are you saying state money couldn't be at least partially used to fund a public building like that?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:47 am 
[quote author=David Krysakowski board=misc thread=1128187532 post=1128560790]The Big Sky will add Southern Utah ...quote]

Indeed. I don't see why the BSC would keep rejecting them when they're the same type of institute as Weber St.

Sac State and Eastern Washington are only Master's I themselves.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 9:30 am 
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They are all that same classification, but that doesn't mean they are necessarily equal. There is variation within the classification.

When looking at the academics at Weber State, they are not a flagship by any means, but they do have a bit more depth to their academic offerings and the number of academic programs:

http://weber.edu/programs_courses/University/collegesdepartments.html

They don't have too much that is junior college/community college programs except for maybe the engineering tech programs.

SUU, on the other hand, well, there isn't too much of what they are offering in comparison. These are the academic departments on campus:

http://www.suu.edu/academics/depts.html

If you look at their "College of Science", they have a total of 4 degree programs in that "college", if you can call it that, which consist of Biology, Chemistry, Nursing and Nutrition. Why would nursing and nutrition be in a college of science and where is Physics?, Geology? Physics at a minimum should be fundamental at any college. Also, biological sciences are quite broad. They don't include Botany as a program, as well as entomology. It seems to lack programs and Nursing and Nutrition should be its own college.

Only their Education school and Fine Arts school and perhaps Business school looks to have some depth.

Their College of Humanities and Social Science looks a little scant too. This may be a problem too, along with the Science college for their Education college.

But beyond that, they are still somewhat of a junior college/community college with these offerings:

http://www.suu.edu/academics/associates.html

They also have some of the engineering tech stuff found at Weber State. This is where the Mathematics department is, which maybe should be in the College of Science and called Science and Mathematics.

SUU seems to evolve similar to how UVSC has and how Dixie State (which is still technically a junior college). Its the more advanced form of UVSC. UVSC, however is much more like a junior college that offers bachelor degrees. However, they have an enrollment of 25K, which is only exceeded by U Utah and BYU in the state (its bigger than USU). However, many of those students are likely a part of the junior college curricullum.

The other problem with SUU is its market. Cedar City is 22K, in a county with 35K. St. George, located only 50 miles to the south, is the fastest growing small metro area in the nation, with like 100% growth since 1990 (its doubled its population -- 45K to 110K in 15 years). But most of these people are retired people and this is also the home to Dixie State which has aspirations that UVSC and SUU have. Cedar City is also remote as it is 200 miles from SLC and 200 miles from Las Vegas and there isn't a big sized airport to get into there, although Delta does fly there, but I would suspect that a Cedar City destination is probably for cutting as part of Delta's bankruptcy and the need to survive as an airline.


Last edited by metropolitan on Thu Oct 06, 2005 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:20 am 
I see.

Still, if the BSC wants another school that is immediately playoff eligible to get to 10, SUU is there. And has been there waiting.

I wonder if it's simply a matter of time before they get in.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:26 pm 

Quote:

Quote:
i agree about cal-poly and uc-davis being no gos for the big sky.

As a resident of North Dakota, I am pretty sure you won't see anyone anywhere except behind closed doors and off the record talk about state dollars being used to fund athletics.


But are their not UND alumni on the state boards?

Are you saying state money couldn't be at least partially used to fund a public building like that?


Sure, there are a few (3?) und alums on the state board of higher ed, but i don't think that makes much of a difference.

The state would (probably) give the school bonding authority for their facility, but the funds would have to come from somewhere (else). Private donations, or non-earmarked funds that the President has control over.

If either Chapman or Kupchella started to funnel millions more than the other institution, I think the other would cry foul pretty fast.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:23 pm 
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Quote:
I see.

Still, if the BSC wants another school that is immediately playoff eligible to get to 10, SUU is there. And has been there waiting.

I wonder if it's simply a matter of time before they get in.


Maybe, maybe not. During Commissioner Fullerton's Ask the Commish 5 minute interview earlier this week someone from California asked about expansion and the criteria and the Commissioner outlined the expansion process, about he, himself providing the presidents options (an analysis), etc. He said the top 2 criteria for expansion are 1) academics, and/or "like minded schools", and 2) geography. He said if they don't get past these first two criteria, they aren't studied further in the process. Then comes facilities and other criteria once you get past these two primary criteria. He said last week in this "Ask the Commish" segment, that SUU doesn't even get past stage 1 in the process when he presented them as a candidate to the presidents.

Maybe as the state grows, especially southern Utah which is not a great proportion of the population, maybe SUU will gradually have more depth to their academics. Of course they are also competing with Dixie State Junior College which is in the same region for that growth. If Delta airlines does their cuts on the Cedar City airport, that will not be good for their athletics.


Last edited by metropolitan on Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:30 pm 

Quote:
not YET anyway.

However some new facilities and some well-to-do boosters may change things.

I think Pounder or someone posted some articles that Alex Spanos (who does or used to own the San Diego Chargers) was throwing a lot of money their way.

First they need to invest in facilities, then they can divert the funds toward athletic operations.

You are correct, though, their athletic budget will need to more than double, before they can contemplate the jump to 1-A.


Sacramento State is part of the same system as Fresno State (WAC) and San Jose State (WAC) and San Diego State (MWC), so it seems possible to get there. I assume the state government's allocation for athletics may be somehow proportionate to enrollment. So as the school grows in enrollment, the state may fork over comparible funding.

I think it has been pointed out that the 2 (?) Sac. State sports that play in the WAC, may do so because the Big Sky Conference does not offer those sports. Which, if true, may diffuse the idea that any all-sports move to the WAC is NOT under consideration. The new Sac St. president and AD have been talking about the big-time, but financial constraints will certainly trump any big talk.


Spanos has given $10M, students have a $60M tax and the upcoming Green&Gold Gala has in attendance the Gov and First Lady, Mr. & Mrs. Teichert(construction blue blood) and every political figure in the community, Five mayors, a US Senator, etc.

There are some big names attending this event and it is said BIG surprises will be announced.

BTW...student newspaper said the new arena construction could start next spring.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:22 pm 
Ja, und since Ah-nold lives up zere in Zacramento, he should help donate too. That's how these things get rolling.

Hey Vanderbilt is an SEC school. Basically money from one [incredibly] rich family....

So it is do-able. It takes a vision, a execution plan, and money.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:29 pm 
So the Big Sky Meeting was this past week (Oct 3-7 ?).

Have any of you folk (who live out west) come across any press releases telling what transpired ?

Thanks.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:59 am 
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Quote:
The Big Sky will add Southern Utah when Portland State & Sacramento State join the WAC in 2010.


Will this be official or is it just predicted?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:10 pm 
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Its predicted.


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