Thread dedicated to the merits (or lack thereof) of North Dakota State (NDSU) and South Dakota State (SDSU) obtaining membership in any of the following conferences: (1) Mid-Continent; (2) Big Sky; (3) Gateway Football; (4) Missouri Valley...

Feel free to include articles about women's basketball and associate memberships in swimming...

Fine idea Mr. Ouija, only the topic should be expanded to more of a regional level. It should also include the University of North Dakota, and their advantages and disadvantages for moving up to 1-AA status as well as their advantages and disadvantages as a candidate for 1-AA/1-AAA conference membership.

But it shouldn't stop there. The thread should look at all possibilities for 1-AA teams in the states of North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Nebraska and other upper Great Plains and Upper Midwest locales.

This Upper Great Plains/Upper Midwest/Upper Great Lakes region is primarily a Division II region in the Dakota states and surrounded by or laying underneath outfront Division 1-A BCS conferences and followings in the states of MN, NE, WI, and MI. The thread should look at the possibilities of making this region a 1-AA region with a critical mass of 1-AA teams and a midmajor underlay of the major outfront footprinted BCS powers of the region.

Other than Alaska and Hawaii, this region is clearly the most vast 1-AA/1-AAA Gap Region without a critical mass of geographically close 1-AA/1-AAA teams of anywhere in the US.

But aren't NDSU and SDSU "too good" for current D-II schools (e.g. UND, USD, GVSU, NWMSU, CMSU, PSU)?

That's the opinion of only the followers of those two schools. This thread should be more open minded than that.

Look at the thread title...

Yep, you're right. The thread title works, although for the region beyond the Dakotas, it doesn't though.

one reason for them to never be in the MVC

they can't beat a mid pack Drake team in women's BB

current RPI for womens BB team is 331st of 332 teams in RPI index. http://www.rpiratings.com/womrate.htm

Dahir's 16 Helps Drake Down South Dakota State

DES MOINES, IOWA – Junior forward Jill Martin (Norwalk, Iowa) connected on a layup with 97 seconds remaining to give the Drake women’s basketball team a 54-52 victory over South Dakota State Sunday in front of 2,178 fans in the Knapp Center. The win secured Drake’s third 2-0 start in four seasons, and the 12th 2-0 start in program history.

I guess that meens that Nebraska should drop down to D-II since they got killed by the team that "can't beat a mid pack Drake team in women's BB". ::)

http://www.journalstar.com/articles/2005/11/20/huskerextra/doc4380125ebacc2519640968.txt

Jackrabbits bounce NU women
BY BRIAN ROSENTHAL / Lincoln Journal Star
Sunday, Nov 20, 2005 - 02:04:08 am CST

Shortly before the second half began, the public-address announcer directed the Devaney Sports Center crowd to look at the video boards for first-half Husker highlights.

Appropriately, nothing appeared on the screens.

Blame technical difficulties, if you want. But the Nebraska women’s basketball team didn’t do anything worthy of highlighting, anyway.

South Dakota State, in its second year as an NCAA Division I school, soundly defeated Nebraska 68-49 Saturday in a game that was every bit as lopsided as the score indicates. . . .


Redfield

Dakota Homer

I don't usually respond to anything too much where I discuss much about Nebraska's standing on this board. The reason is I come here to discuss global, broadly discussed topics related to college conference alignment. If I wanted to engage in some sort of smack talk with rival schools, other Big 12 schools smack or smack with opponents Nebraska plays, I would look for a Husker board, a Big 12 board, or other forums for that type of discussion. Frankly, that stuff bores me. I just like watching games.

You can even talk to SportsKC where we once got in an argument over how significant Nebraska's following is in Colorado and in Missouri, particularly Kansas City and he claimed that Missouri doesn't claim as much of the KC market in following because of the obvious KU and KSU following, but he also cited Nebraska. Its true that Nebraska has significant following and may be seen as having some following than that outside of Nebraska. The 2 Nebraska sports radio affiliates in Arizona, plus 1 in Denver, 1 in Kansas City, 1 in the Twin Cities, 1 in Wichita, 1 in Des Moines, 4 radio affiliates in South Dakota, and plus a few other outside Nebraska locations are possibly evidence of this. However, my argument to SportsKC was more pro-Missouri and his was more pro-Nebraska and I am a Nebraska alum and fan.

The SDSU win is significant. However, that in and of itself does not clinch or bring about a conference membership. The whole athletic program is a part of the equation just as location, market, are.

However, here I am going to comment, though it is something that doesn't come regularly from me. Nebraska's loss to South Dakota State is really nothing to proclaim Nebraska should move down to D II, even if you were just joking. The overall performance of Nebraska's athletic program should indicate this. Nebraska was ranked #21 in the nation for the Director's Cup last year which measures overall strength of the athletic program. Its higher than all other Big 12 schools except market jugernaut U Texas.

South Dakota State has the market for 1-AA status. The issue is does it have the competitive advantage to get an invite into a conference? Performance is indeed important. But finances, such as travel costs, as well as time, such as student-athletes times, are also significant for conference candidacy. The market is also important as it relates to exposure of said conference as well as recruiting. As one article said, there's a possible limitation of recruits in the Dakotas, so the Dakotas will have to rely on out of state recruiting in order to be sustainable over the long haul. These issues are being raised in national articles about the Dakotas just as much as the praise about the 1-AA move ups and performance.

Personally I think the Mid-Con would be fine for the Dakota schools, but in the long run they need some of their buddies from D2 to move up. North Dakota and Grand Valley State look like good programs to move up. I got other things to do tonight or I would go into my plan for the Mid-Con in the future.

After the raids that could occur of the conferences after the Big East leave and the Horizon get cherry picked by the A 10 or a new resulting conference from the Big East split, thats when you could see the Mid Con become the true Mid Con in that it is centered upon the Dakotas where that would be the core of the conference membership (Rugby, ND is the "Geographical Center of the North American Continent"). Of course the conference would look differently, with less eastern Midwestern teams, and have a more true "mid-continental" and western look to it.

A UND move up is certainly a great ingredient to this as well as NDSU and SDSU. In time, and many on this board think long-term, as the Big East Split is commonly talke about on this board for a topic and that is long term and futuristic, it could be possible that USD could be in a position some time in the future, maybe a decade, where they could move up also.

GVSU and NKU are also possibilities. Maybe even SVSU, Wayne State, are too.

Metro,

My comments about Nebraska were very tongue in check and merely a response to a MVC fan who feels that a single 2 point loss in women’s basketball game disqualifies us from conference consideration. Just as I don’t believe that by virtue of SDSU beating Nebraska or being added as an affiliate member to the Mid-Con in swimming ( yes, Mr Ouija that one is for you) that we are a lock for conference membership. I have always thought that finding conference affiliation would be based on many things some that can be controlled (how competitive we are on the athletic fields of battle, fan support, academic standing, etc.) and some that we can not control (location of our University).

If you want to cut to the chase I, like many, have always felt that as a Morrell Act/Flagship University with good finacial support and good athletic teams it is only a matter of time before SDSU and NDSU are added to a conference. It is far more likely that this outcome will happen then the alternative which is that SDSU and NDSU will remain as independent forever or will return to D-II. If that makes me a "Homer" then so be it. I have not tried to hide my loyalties so I will proudly wear the title of "homer" even if Mr. Ouija would like to use it as a blunt instrument to discredit mine and other's opinions on this matter.


P.S. Mr. Ouija your sense of objectivity on this topic is overwhelming (sarcasm). Nice title to the thread. ::)

Redfield, I have never made the argument that NDSU or SDSU should move down to DII. My arguements deal with all the factors for consideration for conference affiliation. Yes, you can't do anything about location, nor market really. But location and market do not go away.

This is not a smack board. Its not www.bisonville.com nor the www.d1aa.com board. Its a nationwide or for that matter worldwide board. This board has diversity. We have a member who is from Puerto Rico and they are members of conferences affiliated with the states, because they are a part of the US. People are not here necesserily to give affirmation for any particular school or cause, for the most part. They are here to talk conference alignment. To be broad minded about it is the usual approach. So, thus, schools that you may not even like, your fellow brethern can and will be dicussed as possibilities for conference alignment along side your school. Its the nature of the topic at hand. If you want to talk only about your school and dis another school for a similar conference alignment or 1-AA status or D II status, then I would suggest you visit www.bisonville.com or www.d1aa.com. Those are where you will find that type of discussion, cause those people think most likely like you do on this topic.

Metro,

Please don't go getting all "Holier then thou" on me. You are the reason that Mr. Ouija started the IPFW "Homers" Thread.

P.S. I would direct you to a IPFW fan board, but I can't find any. ;) ;D