Also, metro, please give me a call when lincoln financial, or any Fortune 500, starts righting big checks to the community college in Fort Wayne.

the point about markets has been made, it doesnt need to made again, please. Metro has demonstrated great knowledge about merket size but he is not conclusive at all about value. At best its a wash in favor of the Dakotas. Please Metro dont respond with the market argument again I think we get it.

that leaves location as the main obsticle. I think that can be overcome by changing conference structure, probably adding teams and spliting to 2 divisions. Admitting new members and reorganizing to minimize travel costs could offer substantial savings to existing conference members.

It looks to me the mid con has the most to gain with that move. There are enough independents available now to make it happen. I have a lot of faith that the SUs will be able to overcome objections like Metro has been making. Thats the essence of marketing and I have confidence we can do it.

the BSC has some advantage in travel if they reorganized but there may not be enough acceptable schools avaiiable, making it a long shot in the near term. Any reorganization of the BSC has the danger of being devisive. They cant afford to lose any members now because their auto bids are in danger. In 2007 expansion debates could get hot and heavy in the BSC when the Dakota schools are in their last transitional yr.

Both the SUs are in a good position and you have to take your hat off to their administrations for moving when they did. Late comers may find the going tough, especially if the BSC does something radical like shed a west coast member of two and replace them with 2 dakotas schools.

It is possible.

No one from North Dakota has answered my question yet. Are there any Fortune 500 companies in North Dakota?

The conclusiveness is in the population numbers. The State of North Dakota is the 3rd least populated state, and will eventually become the 2nd least populated state. The state of Vermont, a mere 13,000 less in population has a greater growth dynamic that will eventually (and soon mind you) take over ND population size. Then you also have the fact that North Dakota has 3 teams that are followed in the state. Thus, one of the smallest markets in college sports.




You forgot UND. It may take them some time to move up, if they move up. But this may be the only possibility for the BSC to expand, if at all. They may wait until UND is available, or not expand at all.




Which is a strong reason why they may not expand at all.




The only possibility for the Dakotas at that time is probably the Mid Con, unless sentiments in the BSC change.




I take my hat off to them. I mean that sincerely.




It is almost not possible for a conference to shed a member. Its a really bad precedence and a conference will not set it. Temple from the Big East was an exception. Conferences don't shed members for arbitrary reasons.

There is a likelihood of NCC teams that move up to gradually be in the same conference with the Dakota States eventually. This likelihood exists because of the potential domino effect(s) on the Division I conference landscape from a BE conference split and/or a MWC raid of the WAC. If other NCC teams move up, they are likely to be in the mix to land in the same conference as NDSU and SDSU.

The only thing I have heard discussed is Sac State leaving the BSC for the Big West and the Great West. That would align them with UCD abd greatly reduce travel costs for them. They dont want any Dakota Schools in the BSC so if there is any smoke there its possible they would leave the BSC if the Dakotas were admitted. Its simply speculation.

When I look to the future my concern is whats possible not whats impossible. The markets have been covered. Advertising dollars may not be the bottom line since conferences dont run or sell ads. Attendance may be the bottom line with good regional coverage. The SUs have that.

Why would Sac State leave the BSC, a 1-AA playoff qualifier conference, for a conference that would then have a grand total of 4 members and not be a playoff qualifier?

The BSC, or any conference for that matter, will try to satisfy the needs of its current members before admitting new members.




Since this is a "Dakota Homers" thread, I like to look at all the possibilities for all the schools located within the two states of North Dakota and South Dakota. Looking at possibilities means applying logic, which includes observing all the advantages, disadvantages, opportunities and constraints for a conference to take any team. It also means that I don't limit myself to one or two schools in the Dakotas.




When the discussion looks at the strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and constraints of any conference alignment, then discussion of any factor will be discussed. It along with location are the weaknesses for the Dakotas.




Its not the conferences that run adds. Its related to advertising dollars on television, and how much advertising time is worth due to the TV ratings. This relates to the conference championship being on TV or the possibility of landing a TV contract. The corporate sponsorship of athletic events is also at play here. The more corporate presence in a expansion candidates location, the more advantageous for the conference it will be. A smaller populated market usually has less corporations and buying power. There are no Fortune 500 companies in North Dakota. South Dakota does have Citibank in Sioux Falls, and still has a strong presence of Gateway Computers in North Sioux City, SD (though they have moved a lot of their operations to Southern California). Now Gateway Computers is closer to Vermillion, so if USD was to move up, that may be a source of corporate sponsorhsip for a conference.




This is also true for the University of Dakotas. They too have strong attendance. However, when looking at the Mid Con, IPFW attendance is rising and exceeds NDSU's and is behind SDSU's in basketball.

When Microsoft acquired Great Plains, MS moved their accounting department to North Dakota, as well as kept software developers to ND.

Thanks wbyeager for answering my question on Fortune 500 companies in North Dakota.

Still, Ft. Wayne has more in major employers and major companies with a presence from not only Lincoln Financial but also the following:

General Motors (Fortune 500)
Norfolk-Southern Railroad (Fortune 500)
ITT (Fortune 500)
Raytheon (Fortune 500)

There's more of a Fortune 500 presence in Ft. Wayne than in Fargo.

Report puts N.D. near top
Forum and wire reports, The Forum
Published Friday, December 30, 2005

BOSTON – North Dakota is ranked sixth in the nation by a Boston-based study that measures economic competitiveness based on ability to generate income and promote growth.

‘That’s great news,” state Commerce Commissioner Shane Goettle said Thursday.

“It validates some of the information we have about wage growth in the state and what we see in economic activity in some of our targeted industries,” he said.

North Dakota is one of two states in the nation to show job growth in manufacturing from 2000 to 2005, he said. The other was Nevada.

Over the past five years, North Dakota has added 1,900 manufacturing jobs , Goettle said.

Per capita personal income grew 25 percent from 2000 to 2004, second only to Connecticut, he said, according to the U.S. Commerce Department’s Bureau of Economic Analysis.

The fifth annual report, to be released today by Suffolk University’s Beacon Hill Institute in Boston, ranked Massachusetts first.

The state’s strengths across a broad range of economic indicators earned it the top spot again, despite the Bay State’s recent population decline and slow job growth.

The report’s authors cited the state’s strong technology base, the quality of its work force and its generous support for new business ventures. Those strengths offset weaknesses in the state’s infrastructure and in its environment.

“This year’s report should go a long way toward dispelling recent, glooI disagreeessments of the state economy,” David Tuerck, Beacon Hill Institute’s executive director, said in a news release. “Looking at just one or two economic indicators can, as we see, prove misleading.

“Despite slow job growth and population loss, Massachusetts continues to be an attractive place to live and work,” Tuerck said.

The study’s authors define competitiveness as “the policies and conditions that ensure and sustain a higher level of per capita income and its continued growth.” The report assigns 42 variables to eight categories: government and fiscal policy, security, infrastructure, human resources, technology, business incubation, openness and environmental policy.

New Hampshire rose to No. 2 in the rankings, from No. 7 the previous year.

Rounding out the top 10 states, in order, were: Utah, Colorado, Nebraska, North Dakota, Washington, Alaska, Maryland and Minnesota.

The lowest-ranking state was Louisiana, followed by Mississippi (49th), Arkansas (48th), West Virginia (47th), Indiana (46th) and Hawaii (45th).

That's great 11jbb11.

Congratulations to North Dakota in job growth and personal income growth.

Growth is growth and it is good to see North Dakota grow. However, growth does not reflect the small base that ND is. ND has a small base of personal income. In fact it has the second smallest total personal income in the nation, second only to Wyoming. Vermont, which actually has 13,000 people less, is slightly higher than North Dakota in total personal income. North Dakota, despite recent growth in total personal income, has the 49th highest total personal income among the 50 US states, as illustrated in the following table:

http://www.bea.gov/bea/newsrel/SPINewsRelease.htm

After the forth quarter of 2004, ND had a total statewide personal income of $19,133,000,000 which is second smallest only to Wyoming. After the second quarter of 2005, North Dakota had a statewide total personal income of $19,828,000,000, and still second lowest only to Wyoming.

Despite rapid growth, ND has the second smallest amount of total personal income base in the nation. This relates to a relatively small buying power that exists in the state and relates to a one of the smallest statewide markets in the nation, despite having one of the highest percentage growths.

Also, North Dakota has slightly less employment than Vermont, and has the second least amount of total employment among the 50 US States:

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/laus.t03.htm

The Dakota schools have the attendance and the market to be competitive with the conference configurations we have been discussing and are, Im certain, major players in any Mid Con or BSC future expansion. If they make the cut and become a member of one of them, or even form the mythical DI NCC, your obviously wrong. If they fail to make any kind of conference affiliation in Division I, your right. 8-)

As far as market for 1-AA status, irregardless of conference affiliation, the Dakota schools, all 4 of the state flagships, have the market to be 1-AA schools. However, regarding the Mid Con, the market ranking for prospective schools for expansion candidates for that conference would be the following:

1. IPFW (Mid Con candidate only) -- Ft. Wayne DMA & Northeastern Indiana = 1.2 million, 5 Fortune 500 companies and a buying power of about 0.4% of US Gross Domestic Product, only D-I in NE IN + IU, PU and ND as its competition, but located outside NE IN.

2. tie. SDSU (Mid Con candidate and BSC candidate) (Statewide SD market of 775,000, however shared with USD nearly equally with a presence of NU and U Minn as well as U Wyo and U of I and ISU. About 0.25% of Gross Domestic Product, which is lower buying power compared to IPFW market and has Citibank and Gateway Computers as Fortune 500 companies. USD has about the same market as SDSU.

2. tie NDSU (Mid Con Candidate and BSC candidate)(statewide market of 634,000), however shared with UND nearly equally and has following for U Minn. The state population is actually smaller than SD, but there is less fragmentation in ND as they only have U Minn as the only significantly followed out of state team and SD has NU, as well as U Minn, UWyo, and U of I and ISU, so more fragmentation. USF is also big in Sioux Falls proper, but is NAIA. ND has 0.2% of the Gross Domestic Product, so thus, smaller Buying Power than IPFW and about equal to SDSU because of greater fragmentation of the SD statewide market. There is Microsoft's presence in Fargo, but Grand Forks has Amazon, which would benefit UND more. UND also fits here in this ranking.

4. SUU (BSC candidate only, already in Mid Con) -- Cedar City, UT is a growing community, with about 35,000 in the county/micropolitan population, but doesn't have any Fortune 500 companies. Tourism is big here, as it is in close proximity to several of the 6 southern Utah National Parks and National Monuments. St. George, the fastest growing metropolitan area of the 1990's and the 2nd in this decade is 50 miles to the southwest. SLC is 250 miles to the north and Las Vegas is 160 miles to the southwest. St. George is a retirement community and home to a distribution center for Wal Mart, the only Fortune 500 company presence in the region. Dixie State is an emerging D II school in St. George but BYU and U of Utah have following here as well. Probably less than 0.1% of Gross Domestic Product in the Southern Utah regional market, including both Cedar City and St. George.

5. UVSC (Mid Con candidate only, its I-AAA and BSC is I-AA) -- Orem, UT is twin city to Provo. But Provo is home to BYU. Provo-Orem has 400,000 people in the metro, which amount to about 0.1% GDP so less buying power than IPFW, SDSU and NDSU and probably equal to SUU's market, however, UVSC is so much a dwarf in BYU home town shadow.

NDSU and SDSU are both smaller than IPFW's market. Market will not be the only consideration, but if the Mid Con only consider expansion by one team, IPFW has this advantage over the Dakota schools as well as its location. SDSU, though really tied with NDSU, due to the greater fragmentation of the SD statewide market, it might still have somewhat of an advantage slightly marketwise over NDSU as SD is a bigger market and the presence in SD may be seen as more advantageous from a market standpoint than that of ND.

The 4 Dakota flagships could be the market anchors for a D I NCC, along with some MN schools and other Upper Midwest candidates.

I guess your point is lost? ???

I dont know why you Dakota fans keep arguing about this with met. He doesn't like the Dakota schools bc you hate each other, thus he will keep using the market argument against the Dakota schools.

My point is not lost, its valid. Its simple. ND is the 3rd smallest state and when placed next to almost any team from a larger state that represents a metropolitan area that is nearly the same size as the state of ND and represents a region of that state that is double the size of ND, its intuitive that the market is bigger.