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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:55 pm 
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CUSA over MWC? Who are more attractive opponents for UTEP? New Mexico, TCU, Utah, BYU or Tulane, Marshall, East Carolina, Central Florida?

CUSA is looking really spread out at this point, and a lot of those schools aren’t too exciting. Not to mention historical ties between UTEP and the pre 1990’s WAC. I’d take MWC in a heartbeat over CUSA if I was UTEP.

SDSU and NDSU to the Big XII, you’re having a laugh!

NDSU to the WAC, seems far fetched and if you asked me five years ago I’d think you were crazy but NDSU following the Idaho model makes it seem a bit more realistic. SDSU to the WAC, I never see that happening. 7,000 football attendance would be a deal breaker immediately.


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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:15 pm 
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How about SMU, Rice, and Houston? Are those attractive for UTEP?



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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:20 pm 
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Quote:


NDSU to the WAC, seems far fetched and if you asked me five years ago I’d think you were crazy but NDSU following the Idaho model makes it seem a bit more realistic.


How is it like the UIdaho model?

Idaho was previously aligned with present day Pac 10 schools, along with Montana at one time. They could have went to the Rose Bowl then if they were good enough at that time. Also U Idaho had a long history as a I-AA team. They were never a D II team and either played I-AA schools or I-A schools.

The state of Idaho is also a bigger market (1.4 million and climbing, it was 900K in 1980). Though Boise State probably slightly exceeds UI in the Boise market and BYU is big in the Southeastern ID area where Idaho State is big, UI is the only statewide followed team in all of Idaho. Its market is far more like a I-A school than NDSU's. Coeur d'Alene, in the northern ID Panhandle (85 miles north of Moscow) is one of the fastest growing metro areas in the nation, and could legitimately double in size in 25 years time. Then there is also Lewiston, and Moscow, which account for about 100K, and a share of the Spokane market as well, which is 425K in metro size. The other difference is U Idaho has a much better location for a conference, relatively speaking, though it was a bit tough getting in the WAC.

NDSU would not be a competitive candidate for the WAC as far as market, when compared to Montana, Montana State, Sacremento State, UC-Davis, Cal Poly, Portland State, and even Idaho State and Weber State and UNC. EWU and NAU are closer to their size in market.

Their location is Northern Plains. The WAC has already done the Southern Plains. Their location is not advantageous when compared to Montana, Montana State, Portland State, Sacremento State, UC-Davis, Cal Poly, Idaho State and Weber State for the WAC.


Last edited by metropolitan on Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:27 pm 
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Quote:
How about SMU, Rice, and Houston? Are those attractive for UTEP?



They are now. Thats why they are in the CUSA. But if you offer UTEP a conference spot with a BCS autobid, that would change that perspective.


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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:19 pm 
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Getting back to the Dakotas, it is the Dakotas homer thread after all, very little will happen in the way of conference realignment for us until the transition is over.
With the new Basketball deal its not as urgent anyway.

The new BB conference will provide a home for any other midwestern/NCC schools that might make the move and the GWFC is also there, although I dont think the western members of the GWFC are eager about another school up here.

Im just not sure if it will be a catalyst event initiating a domino effect or if the pluses outlined up thread for conference expansions will do it. Maybe like all things it will be a little bit of both.

As far as DI-A football goes NDSU would have, if not the, one of the smallest stadiums in the division. I dont think it happens, if ever, until we have built our football attendance up to the point of near capacity for the 18,000+ seat Fabulous Fargo Dome. We are just under 15,000 now. Ultimately we will outgrow the Fabulous Fargo Dome and the larger stadium will be built. Then this kind of talk will have more legs.

As an NDSU fan and supported thats where I would like to see it end. Its a long view but there is support in Fargo for it.


Last edited by 11jbb11 on Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:10 pm 
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Quote:
Getting back to the Dakotas, it is the Dakotas homer thread after all, very little will happen in the way of conference realignment for us until the transition is over.
With the new Basketball deal its not as urgent anyway.

The new BB conference will provide a home for any other midwestern/NCC schools that might make the move and the GWFC is also there, although I dont think the western members of the GWFC are eager about another school up here.


More schools, the closer you get to 8, means a D-IAA conference autobid qualifier. Do you have any comments from a UC-Davis, Cal Poly or SUU official on the matter? That and comments from their fans? I realize Cal Poly got into the playoffs as an at large. But this would be a guarantee with a complete conference, or something close to it. If its a another team in ND or SD, the legislature would likely be pressured to take them. Because you have a rivalry with them, or wanting to be above them, that would be an arbitrary reason not to include them from a political standpoint, given potentially equal numbers of allumni in the state's legislature, if they are equal.


Quote:
As far as DI-A football goes NDSU would have, if not the, one of the smallest stadiums in the division. I dont think it happens, if ever, until we have built our football attendance up to the point of near capacity for the 18,000+ seat Fabulous Fargo Dome. We are just under 15,000 now. Ultimately we will outgrow the Fabulous Fargo Dome and the larger stadium will be built. Then this kind of talk will have more legs.


That and maybe get their population to about 1 million people, which is not likely. Wyoming is the smallest I-A market. They have 500K and no other college team whatsoever. To overcome the size issue, you would need to overcome the UND and U Minn followings in the state, as ND will be the 49th most populated state, and the smallest state with 2 statewide teams. The small market would need to be overcome in order to compete with almost any current I-A team's and/or 1-AA teams' that move up to I-As markets. If these are Big Sky teams, all BSC schools markets exceed NDSU, except maybe EWU, NAU and SUU (non-Big Sky). A million population would yeild about 500K market for NDSU or comparable to U Wyoming, and even then you may be smaller in the future, given population growth in states like Montana, Idaho, Utah, California, Oregon, and even Colorado.

Conferences will want to spread their footprint into the most advantageous recruiting areas, so market size is important, and the growth in the west is immense.


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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:34 am 
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Im not going to revisit the market argument. I see it as a hurdle, not a barrier. I see our transitional status as a barrier. The transition is working for us though. Its a time to bring scholarships into line and develop relationships. I think it works in favor for us with regard to location. We are developing relationships and generally getting the chance to sell ourselves to potential conferences as insiders.

Over on any given saturday you will find some discussion from GWFC fans. A state legeslature is not going to make the GWFC take new members. Its a conference issue and adding another team from the Dakotas is not a given. It runs into the same problems with the West coast schools as the BSC expansion. If it were a balanced expansion - equal number of west coast/Dakota additions - it is a given.

The auto bid issue is about all a new Dakota member would have going. The playoff selection in DI-AA is not as restrictive as BB - 8 conference winners from the auto bids and 8 at large - so it may be muted somewhat. If playoff expansion gets the nod it may lose all of its advantage.

In addition a new transitional member would have to complete the entire transition before they had any impact on the conference auto bid status. Thats 6 yrs down the road if somebody announced today.

Jeff Kolpack, local Fargo Forum reporter, has stated the new United BB conference has a 15 yr wait for an auto bid. Mid con here we come.

It was reported in todays Fargo Forum that NDSU has turned down an invitation to play the Gophers in football in 2006 we are already signed for 2007. We have Ball State on the schedule in 2006 and Coach Bohl feels our hands are full. It may be revisited this summer if both schools are having problems filling schedules.


Last edited by 11jbb11 on Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:38 pm 
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If you are refering to this site and this thread?

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5988

my read is that including more Dakota schools, while is not an ideal expansion move, if any at all, it really isn't totally dismissed either for the future.

In the long run, one possible scenario is if UND or other NCC schools land in the Mid Con because of a domino effect (BE or maybe MWC initiated) and needing more teams to even continue existing, then UND and any other NCC move ups could land in the GWFC, as it is adminstered by the Mid Con. By that time, the Dakotas would be the core of the conference geographically. Especially if Oakland, IUPUI, UMKC, Valpo, ORU and Centenery moved on, and if Cal Davis all of a sudden decided to move up to I-A. The Great West Football Conference could change to the Mid Con Football Conference, where NDSU, SDSU, UND any other NCC teams, SUU and Cal Poly would be the members. Cal Poly would be an affiliate member, and be a Big West member as well. If U San Diego moved up, they could be affiliate members as well. But since the conference is managed by the Mid Con and the Mid Con in this scenario takes UND and other NCC move ups along with NDSU and SDSU in future expansions in coming years in this scenario, by becoming members of the Mid Con, they would have an inside track of becoming a member of the GWFC, especially if the move would result in 8 teams for an autobid. If they are that close, they would just go for it and over time the provisional status time would be completed and that issue would no longer be around.

Also, here is the D2 message board. I have posted links to www.bisonville.com as well as www.diaafootball.com and wanted to include how the "other Dakotas" and other NCC teams are discussing these things:

http://d2football.com/board/index.php?showforum=8


Last edited by metropolitan on Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:25 pm 
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Thanks for the links Metro.

Interesting about the Gopher offer. They would like NDSU to schedule football in 2006 and we dont seem to be too eager. In fact we have said no but would revisit later if circumstances for the schools warranted it. As presented by our coaches the reasons are sound based on whats best for our team.

That says something positive about NDSU. I know there were several thousand more fans at the Gopher/NDSU BB game than the average Gopher non conference game. I wonder if that didnt encourage the offer?


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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:53 pm 
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That or they need to fill 2 to 3 more slots on their 2006 schedule, according to this schedule for 2006:

http://www.gophersports.com/releases/mfball/2005FutureFootballSchedule.pdf

That schedule has two vacancies. But if they play the allowed 12 games, they need 3 vacancies filled (there's only 11 spots, so one more), so maybe they are desperate to play anyone they can schedule and can find that is willing to play.

Nebraska needed a team to play last year and got Maine. The year before they also needed a team and got Western Illinois. It happens quite frequently. With two vacancies, thats tough to fill. So U Minnesota is in a desparate situation.


Last edited by metropolitan on Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:07 am 
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I was thinking about this over the weekend. Its fantasy, but if you could combine Nebraska-Omaha and Creighton you would have a really good school. Nebraska State. :) UNO has the good football and hockey, with Creighton's bb, baseball, and soccer. It would be a really good I-AA school. Its a day dream. Care on.


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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:54 am 
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Prior to July 1, 1991, the University of Nebraska at Kearney was known as Kearney State College. It has about 6,000 in enrollment. Not huge compared to many universities in the nation, and even the 22,000 enrolled-University of Nebraska-Lincoln flagship campus, but it is the 4th largest university in Nebraska, after UNL, UNO and Creighton. Originially, Kearney State College was Nebraska Normal State College (just like Wayne State (NE), Chadron State and Peru State were), and thus a Teachers College.

Kearney State College, after Boston College and Providence College and a couple of other schools, at the time was one of the largests schools in the nation with the name "College" in their name. In the late 80's many people in the state thought it was important to rename the school to reflect its middle-size enrollment, with "University" in the name. Four names for the school were nominated, which were:

*Central Nebraska University
*Kearney State University
*University of Nebraska at Kearney (becoming a branch of the flagship: UNL and under the University of Nebraska Board of Regents, which is separate from the small state college administration in the state with Chadron State, Wayne State (NE), and Peru State)

Or

*Nebraska State University (similar in naming like Illinois State, Indiana State, Idaho State, and Missouri State, and Arkansas State).

The UNK proposal had some controversey, as UNL would be competing with another branch, as would UNO.

"Nebraska State University" had some support in the state. But University of Nebraska at Kearney was chosen.

And, yes, I believe that Nebraska should have 1 I-AA school in the state. UNO is the one that makes the most sense.


Last edited by metropolitan on Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:09 am 
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On the heels of the UM vote of confidence in the NDSU sports market there is more good news for NDSU. The BISON handed UMKC (currently 2nd place in the mid con) a 24 pt loss in Fargo last night.


Last edited by 11jbb11 on Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:43 am 
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Yes, nice home win for NDSU, in the very small North Dakota sports market.

I didn't know UM votes on confidence. Well, anyway, they must be scrambling to find another 3 teams to play next year in football.


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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:46 am 
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I would imagine they are looking at their best options first and NDSU puts people in the stadium. After all, our football attendance puts us in the top 15 for DI-AA teams. That means real dollars. In fact the UM AD has said as much. The extra draw for the BB game earlier this yr stands in evidence and Im sure motivated the talk of the 2006 game.

They will find their games, and so will we. For NDSU its a trade off. The guarantee looks good, but our market is strong and we can probably make more dollars with a home game. In addition we may not be ready to take on a challenge like the Gophers in 2006.


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