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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:58 am 
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The proximity of Fargo to Minneapolis and the availability of a team that plays in a 5 team I-AA conference is probably a major motivation for scheduling them. They probably figure they have no chances, and being that close, it would reduce some travel costs, rather than playing another I-AA clear across the country. What would speak louder in terms of respect is if Florida scheduled NDSU or Mississippi State, or maybe California. This would illustrate respect for a D-I-AA opponent to fill a schedule and a willingness to go beyond their respective regions to bring them in.

I am not sure I have ever heard of a school needing to schedule 3 games this late before. Having to schedule one game this late is really very common. Michigan has scheduled Vanderbilt to fill a vacancy this month. Many teams have this problem and there are scarce teams available. So you have to find someone in such a desparate situation. One is hard enough, let alone 3. Michigan taking Vandy and Nebraska itself has 3 vacancies to fill on its schedule too. There are probably numerous teams out there that need to schedule quickly. NDSU, with being only in a 5-team conference in I-AA was bound to be identified as a additional late add by someone.

The 12 game schedule next year is responsible for this shortage as much as anything. Many teams on the I-A level need bodies to fill their schedule.

As far as market. Its not only about fans in the stands. Its about exposing the potential conference to advertising dollars and potential corporate sponsorship as well as the most advantageous recruiting base as possible. Everyone knows NDSU has good attendance. However, they lack in population compared to many I-AA and I-AAA schools, including IPFW, and thus have less buying power and less of a draw for advertizing dollars and corporate presence for sponsorship potential as well as lack a recruting base in the state and region compared to most I-AA and I-AAA schools, including IPFW.


Last edited by metropolitan on Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:29 pm 
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Prior to July 1, 1991, the University of Nebraska at Kearney was known as Kearney State College. It has about 6,000 in enrollment. Not huge compared to many universities in the nation, and even the 22,000 enrolled-University of Nebraska-Lincoln flagship campus, but it is the 4th largest university in Nebraska, after UNL, UNO and Creighton. Originially, Kearney State College was Nebraska Normal State College (just like Wayne State (NE), Chadron State and Peru State were), and thus a Teachers College.

Kearney State College, after Boston College and Providence College and a couple of other schools, at the time was one of the largests schools in the nation with the name "College" in their name. In the late 80's many people in the state thought it was important to rename the school to reflect its middle-size enrollment, with "University" in the name. Four names for the school were nominated, which were:

*Central Nebraska University
*Kearney State University
*University of Nebraska at Kearney (becoming a branch of the flagship: UNL and under the University of Nebraska Board of Regents, which is separate from the small state college administration in the state with Chadron State, Wayne State (NE), and Peru State)

Or

*Nebraska State University (similar in naming like Illinois State, Indiana State, Idaho State, and Missouri State, and Arkansas State).

The UNK proposal had some controversey, as UNL would be competing with another branch, as would UNO.

"Nebraska State University" had some support in the state. But University of Nebraska at Kearney was chosen.

And, yes, I believe that Nebraska should have 1 I-AA school in the state. UNO is the one that makes the most sense.


I remember you saying that about Kearney. UNO for I-AA football makes alot of sense, the trouble is basketball. I dont see Omaha supporting both Creighton, UNO along with Nebraska.


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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:58 pm 

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I was thinking about this over the weekend. Its fantasy, but if you could combine Nebraska-Omaha and Creighton you would have a really good school. Nebraska State. :) UNO has the good football and hockey, with Creighton's bb, baseball, and soccer. It would be a really good I-AA school. Its a day dream. Care on.


SportsKC, I note your fantasy statement, and rarely, have private colleges, particularly those religious affiliated, merged with public supported institutions. It has been done. For example, in 1972, Gordon Military College (2 year private), became a unit (Gordon College)of the University System of Georgia. In this case, the college LOST some sports teams including a respectable history in football, and basketball. In the days when freshmen at 4 yr. colleges were not placed on the varsity teams, these types of junior colleges played the 4 yr. freshmen teams.

Some colleges are even next door to one another: Univ. of Penn-Drexel; SC State-Claflin; Benedict-Allen. There are others. Of course governance, history, finances, special missions, study body characteristics, alumni, etc. discourages consolidation; and consolidation is often not a good thing or favored. But, get your fantasy sports point, and it is something to ponder regarding the sports aspect.

I have posted seldom on the "Dakotas" board. Granted, this is a region whereby I don't have a lot of direct detail. I had thought for a long time when the ND-SD 4 (state schools) were Div. II, that moves to at least 1-AA, by one plus, were reachable as the shifts have shown. It is interesting to see the demographic and strategic discussions on this. Metropolitan, and those he discusses/debates with on this frequently, have really reached deep in terms of certain details.


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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:19 pm 
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Yeah, it would be a little crowded, but it really isn't much different than Tulsa, Oral Roberts, Oklahoma State and Oklahoma having the 900K Tulsa market. Omaha is 800K and could support all three. If the Mid Con is short on teams after any future raid, and UNO had an inkling to move up, it would make some sense. UNO's market isn't too different in size compared to any one of the 4 Dakota flagship schools.


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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:23 pm 
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Metropolitan, and those he discusses/debates with on this frequently, have really reached deep in terms of certain details.


Thanks for the compliment DNC.

I'm sure the Dakota posters are thankful for the compliment as well.


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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:23 pm 
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Quote:
Prior to July 1, 1991, the University of Nebraska at Kearney was known as Kearney State College. It has about 6,000 in enrollment. Not huge compared to many universities in the nation, and even the 22,000 enrolled-University of Nebraska-Lincoln flagship campus, but it is the 4th largest university in Nebraska, after UNL, UNO and Creighton. Originially, Kearney State College was Nebraska Normal State College (just like Wayne State (NE), Chadron State and Peru State were), and thus a Teachers College.

Kearney State College, after Boston College and Providence College and a couple of other schools, at the time was one of the largests schools in the nation with the name "College" in their name. In the late 80's many people in the state thought it was important to rename the school to reflect its middle-size enrollment, with "University" in the name. Four names for the school were nominated, which were:

*Central Nebraska University
*Kearney State University
*University of Nebraska at Kearney (becoming a branch of the flagship: UNL and under the University of Nebraska Board of Regents, which is separate from the small state college administration in the state with Chadron State, Wayne State (NE), and Peru State)

Or

*Nebraska State University (similar in naming like Illinois State, Indiana State, Idaho State, and Missouri State, and Arkansas State).

The UNK proposal had some controversey, as UNL would be competing with another branch, as would UNO.

"Nebraska State University" had some support in the state. But University of Nebraska at Kearney was chosen.

And, yes, I believe that Nebraska should have 1 I-AA school in the state. UNO is the one that makes the most sense.


UNK seems like a great fit to backfill the North Central Conference. Maybe some of the Dakota folks have some insight into why they are not after them hot and heavy?

That is interesting about the use of the name "College." I noticed Utah Valley State College, the recent move up from JC status has like 20K+ enrollment. Surely they must be one of the largest colleges out there... with Boston College.


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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:31 pm 
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Quote:

UNK seems like a great fit to backfill the North Central Conference. Maybe some of the Dakota folks have some insight into why they are not after them hot and heavy?



The NCC would love to add UNK as the conference only has 7 members right now and UNK would be a great travel partner for UNO. The problem is that is seems like UNK is content in the RMAC and I think the school thinks it doesn't have the budget to be competive in the NCC, the NCC is also having this problem in trying to lure in schools from NSIC into the conference.


Last edited by fargobison on Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:01 pm 
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Yea, UNKs whole approach to athletics has become conservative. The RMAC has supported DII scholorship cuts and currently limits scholies to an NSIC level. The NCC would really expand their travel too. I know this idea has failed in the past. They have long been mentioned as a possible NCC member.


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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:07 pm 
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Quote:


That is interesting about the use of the name "College." I noticed Utah Valley State College, the recent move up from JC status has like 20K+ enrollment. Surely they must be one of the largest colleges out there... with Boston College.


Yeah, forgot about UVSC. At that time, in 1991, they were a JC. They would now probably be the largest institution in the nation with a name of "College" in their name. They are also not too far removed from being a JC, and even still have a large component devoted to more community college subjects. They mostly offer Bachelor degrees with regards to their 4-year/college side, with not much at all as far as graduate degrees.


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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:12 pm 
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UNK has some shortcomings to moving into the NCC. If UNO were in I-AA, then that would be it in Nebraska as far as I-AAs, although UNK is 200 miles from Omaha, and is a school that has somewhat of a fanbase in the Tri-cities area of Central Nebraska (Grand Island, Kearney, Hastings) which is about the same size as Fargo and Sioux Falls. Although, different in that its really a D II market though.

They do have a 6,000 seat gynasium/arena that they play in, which is pretty good sized for D II, bigger than UNO's Field House. So they do have that attribute. Attendance is also pretty decent too.


Last edited by metropolitan on Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:43 pm 
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Heres some more news some of you Dakota Homers may or may not have read:

Dr. Gene Taylor (NDSU AD) has said that the UM didnt actually offer a game but inquired about the possibility. The door remains open. Here are Mike McFeelys (Fargo Forum sports columnist) comments on the NDSU/UM 2006 football game:

Craig Bohl makes a convincing case why his North Dakota State football team should not play Minnesota in October. But I’m still not sold.

This is a Big Ten team asking to play a Division I-AA team. It’s a game all Bison fans have been waiting for, one that can pay at least $275,000 worth of D-I bills and one that has athletic director Gene Taylor saying, “If it were up to me only, we’d play the game.”

But Bohl lists two reasons not to rush. The Bison, remember, are already signed to play the Gophers in 2007.

First, NDSU already visits I-A Ball State this fall. “It would be very unusual for a I-AA to play two I-A teams in one year, and it would be inappropriate to back out of the Ball State contract because we’ve received a better offer,” Bohl said.

Second, Bohl simply doesn’t believe his team will be deep enough or strong enough to be competitive with Minnesota this year.

It’s clear Bohl has a master plan to take the Bison to the top of Division I-AA when they are eligible for the playoffs. There is no question he knows what he’s doing.

But sometimes unexpected opportunities come your way. Should Minnesota call again, Bohl should make room for the Gophers this fall. Aren’t games like this why president Joe Chapman moved NDSU to D-I in the first place?



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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:47 pm 
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Heres something I picked up over on the SDSU board. Its kind of a rehash but is a different perspective on the new United BB Conference. Hey, who knows, big things start small.

Chris Solari
csolari@argusleader.com
 
Article Published: 01/19/06, 2:55 am
 
It's not the Big Sky or the Mid-Continent. It's likely nothing more than a quick fix.
 
But when South Dakota State's basketball teams enter next season, they will have a pseudo-conference to play in - at least temporarily.
 
SDSU's men and women joined five other independent schools to form an alliance, which is being called the United Basketball Conference. Each school - SDSU, North Dakota State, Indiana Purdue-Fort Wayne, New Jersey Institute of Technology, Texas-Pan American and Utah Valley State - will play against the other "members" starting in January and February of 2007.
   
"I don't necessarily feel that we need to have it as a conference - I don't need a conference mug or letterhead with a conference logo," Jackrabbit women's coach Aaron Johnston said. "It's getting a competitive schedule, a balanced schedule, and creating some awards and recognition that all players in independent basketball should get."
 
In many ways, this is a home for wayward souls making their way into the Division I ranks. All of the schools involved are searching for permanent conference and could bolt at any second, with the coalition beginning and operating on a month-to-month lease.
 
NDSU Athletic Director Gene Taylor said no determinations have been made on whether there will be a name for what he referred to as a "scheduling agreement," nor could he say whether the schools involved will approach the NCAA about becoming a recognized conference.
 
He and the other schools' athletic directors, including SDSU's Fred Oien, met at the NCAA Convention two weeks ago to hammer out the details with the full understanding that this may not be a permanent setup.
 
"Everyone knows that if comes with an (automatic qualifier) and they offer it up, you're going to take it," Taylor said. "In the meantime before that, we'll act as a conference."
 
The NCAA requires any new conference in Division I to wait 13 years to even apply for an automatic qualifier. That is, when a school wins a conference championship, it receives an automatic spot in the NCAA Tournament's field of 65 teams for the men and 64 for women.
 
Some of the teams already play each other. SDSU's men and women, for instance, have home and away games this season with Utah Valley State and IPFW. The women play Texas-Pan American once in Edinburg, Texas, while the men will play two games.
 
But what the independent coaches have found to push along this agreement is that when creating their schedules, it's difficult to get games in January and February when established D-I teams are entrenched in conference play. And getting a game at home is virtually an impossibility during that time.
 
"It's a creation out of convenience," said NJIT men's coach Jim Casciano, whose school is a year behind SDSU in the transition to Division I. "When I put my schedule together and looked at mid-January on, it was pretty scary. Who the heck am I going to play?
 
"Even though it's not the most geographically attractive, it allows you to have games to carry you over until the first week of March."
 
The men's and women's teams will play home and away games with each other on a Wednesday-Saturday schedule, Taylor said. There was talk of possibly extending into postseason conference tournament, but that won't happen in the first year.
 
"It's truly a scheduling alliance that allows for more sane travel patterns, and it allows guys to get in and practice on a regular basis," said NDSU men's coach Tim Miles, a Doland native.
 
SDSU and NDSU both joined the United Soccer Conference in November, a similar grouping of D-I programs without an established league. The Dakota schools' wrestling programs also have been attempting to finalize a wrestling conference with schools in the western part of the country.
 
"I'm pleased with it. It's something we worked hard on to get done for this year's schedule, but we weren't able to get enough coaches on board for it," Johnston said. "The difference for next year is that the athletic directors got involved."
 
Taylor said the goal is to help unify the current D-I independent school's other championships under one umbrella and mentioned that volleyball could be the next sport with a similar arrangement.
 
"It's tough to justify round-robin scheduling for track and golf," Taylor said. "We've already got soccer, now we've got men's and women's basketball. Volleyball could be next and makes the most sense."
 
Reach Chris Solari at 977-3923.


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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:08 pm 
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Quote:
Heres some more news some of you Dakota Homers may or may not have read:

Dr. Gene Taylor (NDSU AD) has said that the UM didnt actually offer a game but inquired about the possibility. The door remains open. Here are Mike McFeelys (Fargo Forum sports columnist) comments on the NDSU/UM 2006 football game:

Craig Bohl makes a convincing case why his North Dakota State football team should not play Minnesota in October. But I’m still not sold.

This is a Big Ten team asking to play a Division I-AA team. It’s a game all Bison fans have been waiting for, one that can pay at least $275,000 worth of D-I bills and one that has athletic director Gene Taylor saying, “If it were up to me only, we’d play the game.”

But Bohl lists two reasons not to rush. The Bison, remember, are already signed to play the Gophers in 2007.

First, NDSU already visits I-A Ball State this fall. “It would be very unusual for a I-AA to play two I-A teams in one year, and it would be inappropriate to back out of the Ball State contract because we’ve received a better offer,” Bohl said.

Second, Bohl simply doesn’t believe his team will be deep enough or strong enough to be competitive with Minnesota this year.

It’s clear Bohl has a master plan to take the Bison to the top of Division I-AA when they are eligible for the playoffs. There is no question he knows what he’s doing.

But sometimes unexpected opportunities come your way. Should Minnesota call again, Bohl should make room for the Gophers this fall. Aren’t games like this why president Joe Chapman moved NDSU to D-I in the first place?



Thanks for the article.

What that article doesn't mention is the fact that Minnesota has three vacant spots on their schedule for next year, and there are potentially other I-A schools looking to fill scheduling holes due to the 12 game schedule next year. Nebraska has 3 games to fill. The contraints of these schools, or their own self-inflicted constraints is that they want more home games with the 12th game. A solution would be simply that Nebraska should play Minnesota. But both schools want most likely 3 more home games. So they need to look for lower level schools that are willing to travel. So they are more desparate, and want to take what they can get.

If Florida or Arizona State offer NDSU a spot to play, let me know. Those are big time schools outside of their region, and reaching for NDSU would say something more than Minnesota looking to fill their home schedule.


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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:10 pm 
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Quote:
Heres something I picked up over on the SDSU board. Its kind of a rehash but is a different perspective on the new United BB Conference. Hey, who knows, big things start small.

Chris Solari
csolari@argusleader.com
 
Article Published: 01/19/06, 2:55 am
 
It's not the Big Sky or the Mid-Continent. It's likely nothing more than a quick fix.
 
But when South Dakota State's basketball teams enter next season, they will have a pseudo-conference to play in - at least temporarily.
 
SDSU's men and women joined five other independent schools to form an alliance, which is being called the United Basketball Conference. Each school - SDSU, North Dakota State, Indiana Purdue-Fort Wayne, New Jersey Institute of Technology, Texas-Pan American and Utah Valley State - will play against the other "members" starting in January and February of 2007.
   
"I don't necessarily feel that we need to have it as a conference - I don't need a conference mug or letterhead with a conference logo," Jackrabbit women's coach Aaron Johnston said. "It's getting a competitive schedule, a balanced schedule, and creating some awards and recognition that all players in independent basketball should get."
 
In many ways, this is a home for wayward souls making their way into the Division I ranks. All of the schools involved are searching for permanent conference and could bolt at any second, with the coalition beginning and operating on a month-to-month lease.
 
NDSU Athletic Director Gene Taylor said no determinations have been made on whether there will be a name for what he referred to as a "scheduling agreement," nor could he say whether the schools involved will approach the NCAA about becoming a recognized conference.
 
He and the other schools' athletic directors, including SDSU's Fred Oien, met at the NCAA Convention two weeks ago to hammer out the details with the full understanding that this may not be a permanent setup.
 
"Everyone knows that if comes with an (automatic qualifier) and they offer it up, you're going to take it," Taylor said. "In the meantime before that, we'll act as a conference."
 
The NCAA requires any new conference in Division I to wait 13 years to even apply for an automatic qualifier. That is, when a school wins a conference championship, it receives an automatic spot in the NCAA Tournament's field of 65 teams for the men and 64 for women.
 
Some of the teams already play each other. SDSU's men and women, for instance, have home and away games this season with Utah Valley State and IPFW. The women play Texas-Pan American once in Edinburg, Texas, while the men will play two games.
 
But what the independent coaches have found to push along this agreement is that when creating their schedules, it's difficult to get games in January and February when established D-I teams are entrenched in conference play. And getting a game at home is virtually an impossibility during that time.
 
"It's a creation out of convenience," said NJIT men's coach Jim Casciano, whose school is a year behind SDSU in the transition to Division I. "When I put my schedule together and looked at mid-January on, it was pretty scary. Who the heck am I going to play?
 
"Even though it's not the most geographically attractive, it allows you to have games to carry you over until the first week of March."
 
The men's and women's teams will play home and away games with each other on a Wednesday-Saturday schedule, Taylor said. There was talk of possibly extending into postseason conference tournament, but that won't happen in the first year.
 
"It's truly a scheduling alliance that allows for more sane travel patterns, and it allows guys to get in and practice on a regular basis," said NDSU men's coach Tim Miles, a Doland native.
 
SDSU and NDSU both joined the United Soccer Conference in November, a similar grouping of D-I programs without an established league. The Dakota schools' wrestling programs also have been attempting to finalize a wrestling conference with schools in the western part of the country.
 
"I'm pleased with it. It's something we worked hard on to get done for this year's schedule, but we weren't able to get enough coaches on board for it," Johnston said. "The difference for next year is that the athletic directors got involved."
 
Taylor said the goal is to help unify the current D-I independent school's other championships under one umbrella and mentioned that volleyball could be the next sport with a similar arrangement.
 
"It's tough to justify round-robin scheduling for track and golf," Taylor said. "We've already got soccer, now we've got men's and women's basketball. Volleyball could be next and makes the most sense."
 
Reach Chris Solari at 977-3923.


Its already been posted here, under a thread devoted to this very topic:

http://collegesportsinfo/forum/viewtopic.php?t=872


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 Post subject: Dakota "Homers" Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:34 pm 
What the article pointed out, has been true across the board about bb scheduling. Most, including independents, can get early season games scheduled relatively easily, depending on each schools flexibility for traveling. It is the mid-January through February period, when conference play commences for most, that independents and smaller conference and/or lower profile schools have to "reach deeper" or be extra willing to do awkward scheduling.

TS2 did hit on a point. A school seeking to upgrade and caught with scheduling issues, ends up traveling to the far reaches of the country, bypassing dozens of schools that could offer more lucrative and even equitable competition.

Similar things happen in fb at some places. For example, LA Tech plays in the WAC which is stretched anyway. Yet, they are not playing LA-Monroe just down the road. For LA Tech's OOC games, they want to schedule bigger schools, usually further traveling, for financial factors and exposure.


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