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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:56 pm 
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It's a blog, do you know what a blog is? It is not a formal announcement by the office of the Big Sky Commissioner.

The statement about no more additions was official, from the Big Sky Commissioners office.

Besides, Fullerton is hired help, he is not the conference. The member Presidents are the conference.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:06 pm 
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White, Doug Fullerton is on the radio in Boise at least once every other month. He's always portraying himself as keeping his options open.

Of course, when he's here, anyone can tell that he wouldn't mind Idaho slipping down... and maybe bringing Utah State with them. I guess everyone has to have a dream.

You may have heard correctly from the Big Sky, but they're like every other conference. It's "we are done considering expansion... until the next time we consider expansion." An official word sounds decisive enough for Mr. Fullerton's resume.

Having said that, note that he pines for Idaho here and IS heard to exclaim NDSU there. In short, he's in wait-and-see mode, and I hope you can reach the conclusion I'm inferring in terms of what he's waiting for.

Also, I am not aware of a conference that accepts new members by a simple majority vote. When the BSC had 8 schools, you needed 6 votes. I'm still trying to get an answer to the question of what happens with 9 members, because they could easily require 7 votes... or more.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:18 pm 
The ACC required seven of nine affirmative votes to expand. Whatever the number would be for other conferences, it would be spelled out in the bylaws of each. I would expect most, if not all, would require more than a simple majority. I don't know if any conference requires a unanimous vote to expand, but there are some unusual requirements some possess.

The whole west, including the PAC 10, WAC, MWC, and Big Sky, seems to be the most challenging area in terms of speculating on conference additions and other modifications.

If one was going to add a team to the PAC 10, logically, many think Utah would make a good addition. Beyond that, differences diverge. Not going to get into the BYU discussion here.

With the MWC and WAC each having state schools in California, Nevada, Utah, and New Mexico; politically, there is a coexistence element.

Montana appears to be a school many think needs to move up to 1-A. Are they still bound to Montana State in any forward move?

Idaho, in particular, Utah State, and New Mexico State, all seem to be having attendance issues and few wins of late. If Utah and/or BYU were ever to go to the PAC 10, would Utah State be ideal to move to the WMC?

It seems the whole west could look very different, conference wise, in the future. Then again, little change could happen over a long time.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:10 pm 
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NDSUs president said today that we would look to the WAC or other DI-A all sports conferences if we didnt have any luck with the conferences in question, the BSC and Mid Con. I actually hope that happens.


Last edited by 11jbb11 on Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:06 pm 
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Utah State would probably not move to the MWC; if the MWC lost two, I'd imagine they would tap Boise State (on-field success) and Fresno State (market), although don't count out Hawaii (concessions from NCAA) or Nevada (basketball). San Jose State is actually in worse shape attendance-wise than Idaho if I remember correctly.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:41 pm 
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If the MWC lost two, but wanted to then go to 12, well BSU, Fresno, Nevada, Hawaii, UTEP would be the likely replacements, with maybe Houston getting some consideration. La Tech would go to the CUSA and that would leave NMSU, USU, Idaho and SJSU. Three of these four could go down to I-AA and join the Big Sky, and thus make a 12-team western league. San Jose State could stop playing football and join the Big West. New Mexico State could either join the Sun Belt and if there is ever room in the CUSA, then they could go there. Or the remnant WAC schools (up to 4) could simply merge with some western Sun Belt teams and some eastern Sun Belt schools could become a part of the MAC if some MAC schools drop down to I-AA. I-AA MAC schools that end up there from dropping down could then join the Gateway Conference and play their other sports in either the Horizon and/or Mid Con or stay in the MAC and those southern I-A former Sun Belts in the MAC could just play football while they play their other sports in a remnant Sun Belt. Lots of possibilities here.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:09 pm 
If Utah and BYU did leave for the PAC 10, hypothetically, that would leave an empty space in all of Utah for the MWC. OK, granted, Boise State is not that far away, but still not in Utah. Utah State isn't a favored school and has struggled in several ways, but would not their prospects get enhanced in such a scenario? I would think if 12 then became the number for the MWC, would they really want to skip over Utah altogether? There would still be some market there, with Salt Lake City and all, to cultivate, even if USU is not now ready for prime time, right now, so to speak. USU does have more name recognition than say, 1AAs Southern Utah and Weber State. In such a situation, with BYU and Utah gone, I think the MWC would want to take a hard look at USU if they went to 12.

Conferences have gambled on taking schools before for markets within their footprint. (Maybe USF going to the BE after the Miami departure is not a good comparative example, but the same general concept). I am not saying this would be the case here, but again, a matter to consider.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:26 am 
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Dont forgot that Utah State has good basketball program, which might be a plus for the MWC as well.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:41 am 
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The Utah market would be USU's strongest advantage in such a scenario for the MWC, that and their basketball. They are the third team of Utah and definitely have more market appeal than Weber State and SUU. They are more of a statewide team, and are likely to have more appeal in SLC, than SUU and perhaps Weber State, though in Ogden that may be a different story. If SUU can't get into the BSC, then they are hardly candidates for the MWC.

Utah State's disadvantage may be BCS rating, which would be low. Boise State, Fresno State, Nevada, UTEP and Hawaii all have at least medicore and some higher rankings for midmajors likely for BCS rankings. Utah State may make the MWC less competitive for the BCS. Also, their market, though the 3rd best in Utah and Utah is larger than some of the western states (bigger than ID, MT, WY, and NM), they may not be much different in market size compared to Boise State, Nevada, UTEP, and perhaps Hawaii and Fresno State have bigger markets. Hawaii's disadvantage is distance. So it may be between Hawaii and USU for that 5th spot to create a 12-team league.

Utah State is also a similar school to Wyoming, Colorado State, and Nevada (if they would join the MWC). They are known as a research-land grant school.


Last edited by metropolitan on Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:34 am 
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Warning to any of you who still engage this Pac-10 expansion with Utah scenario. That is, at best, a 40-year project. At least, with Utah, the birth rate actually helps. I can't begin to tell you how long Boise State would have to wait in line. By then, will college athletics even exist?

As long as the money is in football, Utah State needs to focus there. Problem: Stew Morrill is the big man on campus.

In reality, the impetus for the Mountain West to go to 12 (a TV viewer base large enough for a network to offer more than $1 million for a football championship game) is the same impetus for the Pac-10 to consider adding Utah. It will happen first IN Utah. As such, I can see the Mountain West going to 10 short term... but not 12.

As for the Big Sky, I still advise you to watch out for Montana leaving from the top and/or Portland State dropping out of D-1. If Portland State can get an arena plan off the drawing board and out for bid, then we can look at them differently.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:10 pm 
You may be fundamentally right about that Pounder. The only real incentive to go to 12 is the championship game or add a formidable school that brings with it a vivacious market that would add to the cut each conference member school receives. Would it be worth it for the PAC 10 to, say, just take Utah and work with 11 matching what the Big 10 has? But then if 11, then why not 12 if divisional play becomes more economically feasible in addition to a fb championship game?

My thought is that the PAC 10 does not see anyone close that would add substantially to their alliance. I could be wrong as the future progresses and the PAC 10 finds it worthy to expand even if they don't seek a championship game. If everyone is going to play everyone else currently with the 12 game regular season schedule, they may see making an addition more or less a likely redundant game.

As to the Big Sky, there may not be much of a difference between the quality of some WAC schools i. e. SJSU, USU, UI, and NMSU, and the top Big Sky schools. It seems to me there could be re-organization among the BSC, WAC, and the MWC, even though one is 1-AA. NCAA division 1 while they talk a lot about enforcement of attendance standards and other criteria, they offer many graces and loopholes for change not to be enacted. Not limited to the west, I expect there are 15 to 18 schools that really need to be in 1-A. Among 1-AA, I expect there are 4 or 5 that could reasonably move up and be competitive in 1-A, but reluctant to do so due to finding a conference and willingness to advance that 1-A startup money. The 1-A and 1-AA distinctions need overhauled including the scholarship clarifications.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:10 am 
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Heres some breaking news on the BSC expansion question:

http://www.areavoices.com/bisonmedia/

Essentially Jeff Kolpack, Forum Reporter, is telling us that Doug Fullerton is solidly behind a 12 team BSC indluding 2 schools from ND and one from SD. The motivating factor seems to be scheduling BB with only 9 teams. With rumors flying the Und will announce a move to DI in May, just before the BSC meetings, things might be happening.

Of course there is a lot of caution. The ADs may be coming around but their influence with the Presidents is reported to be low. There is still no indication there are 8 presidents in favor. Adding an affiliate BB member is an idea that has support with the presidents.

Conclusion: Its still very much up in the air but things might be starting to change in favor of a 3 team expansion.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:42 am 
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8 votes, Sac State isn't going anywhere soon, Portland State is fighting budgets (and probably trying to help start an initiative petition to junk the "corporate kicker," which handcuffs the state's ability to grow a budget)... this sounds to me like the formula for a basketball affiliate. Portland State will not willingly give up a regular home football game against Montana... Sac State might actually be the more amenable school to persuade. However, three Dakota schools and two Montana schools in one division means two out of Eastern Washington, Idaho State, and Weber State are going to be highly upset at the alignment for football.


Last edited by pounder on Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:26 pm 
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Sac State to the WAC.

That leaves 8 schools, only Portland State and NAU would vote against NDSU.


Last edited by tman080808 on Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:24 pm 
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Sac State has to qualify for 1-A first... and they have 35% of the necessary football attendance. Worst in the Sky. If you read between the lines of the most recent whitebread thread, you'll note that they also have pushed back the timetable on arena construction... of course, that requires funding first.

I'm telling you... two of EWU, ISU, and Weber are not going to like 12 schools with a Dakota-Montana alignment. They might be voting for 12 if they have an assurance that the Dakotas are grouped with UNC, NAU, and Sac.


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