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 Post subject: Re: Big West realignment
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:36 am 
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JPSchmack wrote:
wbyeager wrote:
I could also see the Big East taking Nevada and UNLV for football only if they wanted to go to 12-Nevada doesn't have the biggest native DMA, and Mackay Stadium is a bit small (29,993), but they have come close to being BCS busters themselves. UNLV of course brings the larger native market, and would be a favorite road trip for many Big East fans, but has struggled on the field lately. Given the proximity of Reno and Las Vegas to California, they would also make perfect additions to the Big West.


UNLV said they will not split their sports.

dgreco wrote:
CSUBakersfield have a shot?


No.

SJSUFan2010 wrote:
I've been wondering, in the event of a C-USA/MWC merger would Fresno State, Nevada, and UNLV consider joining that conference for football only and put their non football sports in the Big West. Everyone would be happy since it would cut travel and the Big West's competition in smaller sports is very good (maybe even better than that C-USA/MWC merger). I'd love to see them get San Jose State and Sacramento State too. If you can't get Sac St let Boise join.

North
Cal Poly, UC Davis, Pacific, UC Santa Barbara, Nevada, SJSU, Boise St/Sac St, Fresno St
South
CSU-Fullerton, CSU-Northridge, Long Beach St, UC Irvine, UC Riverside, SDSU, Hawaii, UNLV


Fresno St. Alum wrote:
so who's #12 in the BW?


There is no #12.

One thing to remember in all this is that while for football and most normal leagues, an even number of teams, balance and travel partners is ideal, for the Big West, 12 is NOT IDEAL.

Here's your travel partners:
UC Davis - Pacific
Cal Poly - Santa Barbara
Long Beach - Fullerton
Riverside - Northridge
Irvine - San Diego State
Hawai'i - Road Bye/ Home Travel Partner (that week).

No one in the conference wants to play in LA on Friday, fly to Hawaii and play Sunday.



exactly...w/ hawaii odd numbers work great for the big west b/c Hawaii is in such a unique situation.

however, if the big west could grab fresno, sjsu, and sac st. they could have division split of football/non football schools

UC Davis
Cal Poly
Sac St
SJSU
Fresno St
SDSU
Hawaii

Pacific
Long Beach
Fullerton
Riverside
Northridge
Irvine
Santa Barbara


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 Post subject: Re: Big West realignment
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:02 pm 
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JP, they just said in freakin' writing last year when they rejected UCSD, the only reason is they didn't want to have 11. They even looked into how the A-Sun did 11 and they decided they didn't like it. Go look back at the articles posted. So I'm thinking they don't want to sit at 11 for long. So unless you have proof they are not going to look for an even number don't pass of them not going to 12 as fact. If you got a link saying they changed their mind, post it.

I think they are hoping that the BE takes another western school like Fresno so they can be #12 or that SJSU somehow becomes fb only in the WAC so they could be 12, or they probably really really hope that MtUSA makes Hawaii a full member so they can have 10.

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 Post subject: Re: Big West realignment
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:27 pm 
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Fresno St. Alum wrote:
JP, they just said in freakin' writing last year when they rejected UCSD, the only reason is they didn't want to have 11. They even looked into how the A-Sun did 11 and they decided they didn't like it. Go look back at the articles posted. So I'm thinking they don't want to sit at 11 for long. So unless you have proof they are not going to look for an even number don't pass of them not going to 12 as fact. If you got a link saying they changed their mind, post it.

I think they are hoping that the BE takes another western school like Fresno so they can be #12 or that SJSU somehow becomes fb only in the WAC so they could be 12, or they probably really really hope that MtUSA makes Hawaii a full member so they can have 10.


One important thing to consider: conferences change their plans based on changes that occur over time internally and in other conferences.

Of course it seems to make sense to everyone that the Big West passed on UCSD, a Division 2 school, since the only real option at the time for #12 was CSU-Bakersfield.

But with SDSU in the Big West now, it's not a stretch to think that the Big West would be jumping for joy to be at 11. They just added one of the top non-Pac12 basketball schools in the west that also has the benefit of FBS football. SDSU is a huge get for them, much bigger than even Hawaii. The Big East in now a position where who knows, they might come calling again out west for a #11 if Navy joins or even for replacements if they lose more schools...and that means the Big West could be a home for another big brand/larger school to jump in as #12. As long as that hope remains, albeit changes in attitudes at UNLV, or a school liek Fresno St, etc...then the Big West will know it's got a slot for them.


Just saying that the crazy Big East adding SDSU/Boise St. scenario was likely not on any big West officials minds way back when the top Big West option seemed to be, gulp, UCSD.

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 Post subject: Re: Big West realignment
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:10 pm 
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Fresno St. Alum wrote:
JP, they just said in freakin' writing last year when they rejected UCSD, the only reason is they didn't want to have 11. They even looked into how the A-Sun did 11 and they decided they didn't like it. Go look back at the articles posted. So I'm thinking they don't want to sit at 11 for long. So unless you have proof they are not going to look for an even number don't pass of them not going to 12 as fact. If you got a link saying they changed their mind, post it.

I think they are hoping that the BE takes another western school like Fresno so they can be #12 or that SJSU somehow becomes fb only in the WAC so they could be 12, or they probably really really hope that MtUSA makes Hawaii a full member so they can have 10.


Who's writing? One of the guys on the Big West beat in LA, Orange County, SLO, Davis or Stockton? We all know more than those guys.

It's far more likely they used the numbers excuse because the Presidents of UC Santa Barbara, UC Davis, UC Irvine and UC can't say "We don't want UC San Diego" and the Presidents of Cal State Fullerton, Cal State Northridge, Cal State Long Beach (aka Long Beach State) and California Polytechnic State University San Luis Obispo (aka Cal Poly) can't say "We don't want Cal State Bakersfield."

The only person who could possibly give anyone a straight answer even OFF the record would be the leadership at Pacific.

You mention the investigation into the Atlantic Sun... they had TWENTY conference games last year. They will have 18 this year.

Here's a link: http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news;_ylt=A ... st-bigwest

It's the AP Story on SDSU joining the Big West. The key part is: "With 14 conference games in the Big West, the Aztecs will have 16 non-conference games to fill."

They have played 16 games for the last five years. This "14 game schedule" is new information.

Is 12 "easier" to schedule? Sure, from a numbers standpoint... but do you really think there's an alignment for "two divisions" (either actual divisions or divisional schedule model) that will pass? Of course not. The LA teams will vote against splitting up and the non-LA schools will vote against the extremely unbalanced travel schedule.

You have to provide a solution where every team plays at Hawaii at the same rate. 12 teams playing 16 games doesn't do that.

With Hawaii, 14 games is perfect for basketball. It allows for playing the 14 games in the same 16-game time span as before, because there's an ample supply of teams to play midweek games against (Bakersfield, Sac State, Nevada, Fresno, San Jose State, and all the WCC California teams).

The Big West is also thinking about more than just basketball.
-- 11 teams works for volleyball: home and home with everyone, your matches against Hawaii will probably be played on one weekend, alternating years.
-- Women's soccer coaches are ecstatic about SDSU, because last year's plan was making an LA school Hawaii's travel partner: At Northridge Friday, fly to Hawaii Saturday, play at 10 am PT Sunday in Honolulu, red-eye home. 11 teams means each travel pair can play each other on Wednesday, then go to Hawaii for one game over the weekend and not lose their legs

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 Post subject: Re: Big West realignment
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:50 pm 
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That 14 game schedule is interesting. Ideally I would think 15 schools would work best in that case. This way you would only face Hawaii once a year. Of course, this is only really considering basketball. But if the Big West wants to limit travel to Hawaii, the more teams the better. Maybe even go to 17 (though I'm not a big fan of conferences this big). At 17, even smaller sports that not every school sponsors would have enough schools competing so that travel to Hawaii was limited.

But for now, the Big West needs to just sit tight and let this stuff play out. If the Big East gets some western football only schools, the Big West might again have a big school fall in their lap. The Big West might turn out to be one of the biggest winners in all this.


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 Post subject: Re: Big West realignment
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:39 pm 
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14 is interesting. It is the minimum number of conference games allowed by the ncaa for a basketball league in order to meet qualifications of a multisport league.

SDSU and Hawaii definitely prefer this in basketball due to the rpi hit they are going to take in conference. With 11 teams you play everyone (10 games), and then I would give each school 2 permanent partners for home-home and 2 rotating partners for home-home for the additional 4 games.


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 Post subject: Re: Big West realignment
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:46 pm 
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14 conference games is also good news for cal st bakersfield. not as good as being in the big west, but they will likely become a defacto member playing virtually all the teams non conference.


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 Post subject: Re: Big West realignment
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:41 am 
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JPSchmack wrote:
Fresno St. Alum wrote:
JP, they just said in freakin' writing last year when they rejected UCSD, the only reason is they didn't want to have 11. They even looked into how the A-Sun did 11 and they decided they didn't like it. Go look back at the articles posted. So I'm thinking they don't want to sit at 11 for long. So unless you have proof they are not going to look for an even number don't pass of them not going to 12 as fact. If you got a link saying they changed their mind, post it.

I think they are hoping that the BE takes another western school like Fresno so they can be #12 or that SJSU somehow becomes fb only in the WAC so they could be 12, or they probably really really hope that MtUSA makes Hawaii a full member so they can have 10.


Who's writing? One of the guys on the Big West beat in LA, Orange County, SLO, Davis or Stockton? We all know more than those guys.

It's far more likely they used the numbers excuse because the Presidents of UC Santa Barbara, UC Davis, UC Irvine and UC can't say "We don't want UC San Diego" and the Presidents of Cal State Fullerton, Cal State Northridge, Cal State Long Beach (aka Long Beach State) and California Polytechnic State University San Luis Obispo (aka Cal Poly) can't say "We don't want Cal State Bakersfield."

The only person who could possibly give anyone a straight answer even OFF the record would be the leadership at Pacific.

You mention the investigation into the Atlantic Sun... they had TWENTY conference games last year. They will have 18 this year.

Here's a link: http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news;_ylt=A ... st-bigwest

It's the AP Story on SDSU joining the Big West. The key part is: "With 14 conference games in the Big West, the Aztecs will have 16 non-conference games to fill."

They have played 16 games for the last five years. This "14 game schedule" is new information.

Is 12 "easier" to schedule? Sure, from a numbers standpoint... but do you really think there's an alignment for "two divisions" (either actual divisions or divisional schedule model) that will pass? Of course not. The LA teams will vote against splitting up and the non-LA schools will vote against the extremely unbalanced travel schedule.

You have to provide a solution where every team plays at Hawaii at the same rate. 12 teams playing 16 games doesn't do that.

With Hawaii, 14 games is perfect for basketball. It allows for playing the 14 games in the same 16-game time span as before, because there's an ample supply of teams to play midweek games against (Bakersfield, Sac State, Nevada, Fresno, San Jose State, and all the WCC California teams).

The Big West is also thinking about more than just basketball.
-- 11 teams works for volleyball: home and home with everyone, your matches against Hawaii will probably be played on one weekend, alternating years.
-- Women's soccer coaches are ecstatic about SDSU, because last year's plan was making an LA school Hawaii's travel partner: At Northridge Friday, fly to Hawaii Saturday, play at 10 am PT Sunday in Honolulu, red-eye home. 11 teams means each travel pair can play each other on Wednesday, then go to Hawaii for one game over the weekend and not lose their legs


Who ever it was that quoted the Big West Commish this spring. SD paper I think.

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 Post subject: Re: Big West realignment
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:35 am 
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Article out of San Diego with comments from UCSD AD and Big West Commish regarding the "possibility" of a future Big West invite for UCSD. Link at http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011 ... m-ucsd-too


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 Post subject: Re: Big West realignment
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:47 am 
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freaked4collegefb wrote:
Article out of San Diego with comments from UCSD AD and Big West Commish regarding the "possibility" of a future Big West invite for UCSD. Link at http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011 ... m-ucsd-too


That would be great for them if it happens. Build a nice rivalry with SDSU in conference.

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 Post subject: Re: Big West realignment
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:32 pm 
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Quinn wrote:
Just saying that the crazy Big East adding SDSU/Boise St. scenario was likely not on any big West officials minds way back when the top Big West option seemed to be, gulp, UCSD.


Quinn wrote:
freaked4collegefb wrote:
Article out of San Diego with comments from UCSD AD and Big West Commish regarding the "possibility" of a future Big West invite for UCSD. Link at http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011 ... m-ucsd-too


That would be great for them if it happens. Build a nice rivalry with SDSU in conference.


Well, according to your own post from yesterday, it's not going to happen!


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 Post subject: Re: Big West realignment
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:50 pm 
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dafoeberezin3494 wrote:
Quinn wrote:
Just saying that the crazy Big East adding SDSU/Boise St. scenario was likely not on any big West officials minds way back when the top Big West option seemed to be, gulp, UCSD.


Quinn wrote:
freaked4collegefb wrote:
Article out of San Diego with comments from UCSD AD and Big West Commish regarding the "possibility" of a future Big West invite for UCSD. Link at http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011 ... m-ucsd-too


That would be great for them if it happens. Build a nice rivalry with SDSU in conference.


Well, according to your own post from yesterday, it's not going to happen!



We try to keep things on the up and up here, so I appreciate if you do the same and include the context of a post, not cut/pasting as you wish.

Quinn wrote:
Fresno St. Alum wrote:
JP, they just said in freakin' writing last year when they rejected UCSD, the only reason is they didn't want to have 11. They even looked into how the A-Sun did 11 and they decided they didn't like it. Go look back at the articles posted. So I'm thinking they don't want to sit at 11 for long. So unless you have proof they are not going to look for an even number don't pass of them not going to 12 as fact. If you got a link saying they changed their mind, post it.

I think they are hoping that the BE takes another western school like Fresno so they can be #12 or that SJSU somehow becomes fb only in the WAC so they could be 12, or they probably really really hope that MtUSA makes Hawaii a full member so they can have 10.


One important thing to consider: conferences change their plans based on changes that occur over time internally and in other conferences.

Of course it seems to make sense to everyone that the Big West passed on UCSD, a Division 2 school, since the only real option at the time for #12 was CSU-Bakersfield.

But with SDSU in the Big West now, it's not a stretch to think that the Big West would be jumping for joy to be at 11. They just added one of the top non-Pac12 basketball schools in the west that also has the benefit of FBS football. SDSU is a huge get for them, much bigger than even Hawaii. The Big East in now a position where who knows, they might come calling again out west for a #11 if Navy joins or even for replacements if they lose more schools...and that means the Big West could be a home for another big brand/larger school to jump in as #12. As long as that hope remains, albeit changes in attitudes at UNLV, or a school liek Fresno St, etc...then the Big West will know it's got a slot for them.


Just saying that the crazy Big East adding SDSU/Boise St. scenario was likely not on any big West officials minds way back when the top Big West option seemed to be, gulp, UCSD.



As you know from reading my entire post, I was quite clear in stating that when the Big West rejected UCSD, it was a much different time...a time when UCSD and CSUB were likely the TOP 2 options...and that NOBODY in the Big West expected that schools like SDSU would be available to the Big West. That has changed. And now SDSU is in the Big West. And other MWC might be available to the Big West if the Big East fills the expected #12 spot (once Navy is #11).

Does anyone think that if the Big East actually had interest in UNLV, that the school wouldn't reconsider a Big West/Big East situation like SDSU? Or that Fresno St. and others wouldn't jump at the chance? There is the potential for the Big West to slot in a rock star type of school. And you have to think that the Big west is monitoring things still. If you're the Big West, who would you rather have: UCSD or UNLV, Fresno St., etc? We know the Big West, like any conference, would want the best option possible. If no FBS schools are available, then it's back to UCSD and CSUB (unless you count UVU as a real option).

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 Post subject: Re: Big West realignment
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:48 pm 
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Quinn wrote:
dafoeberezin3494 wrote:
Quinn wrote:
Just saying that the crazy Big East adding SDSU/Boise St. scenario was likely not on any big West officials minds way back when the top Big West option seemed to be, gulp, UCSD.


Quinn wrote:
freaked4collegefb wrote:
Article out of San Diego with comments from UCSD AD and Big West Commish regarding the "possibility" of a future Big West invite for UCSD. Link at http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011 ... m-ucsd-too


That would be great for them if it happens. Build a nice rivalry with SDSU in conference.


Well, according to your own post from yesterday, it's not going to happen!



We try to keep things on the up and up here, so I appreciate if you do the same and include the context of a post, not cut/pasting as you wish.

Quinn wrote:
Fresno St. Alum wrote:
JP, they just said in freakin' writing last year when they rejected UCSD, the only reason is they didn't want to have 11. They even looked into how the A-Sun did 11 and they decided they didn't like it. Go look back at the articles posted. So I'm thinking they don't want to sit at 11 for long. So unless you have proof they are not going to look for an even number don't pass of them not going to 12 as fact. If you got a link saying they changed their mind, post it.

I think they are hoping that the BE takes another western school like Fresno so they can be #12 or that SJSU somehow becomes fb only in the WAC so they could be 12, or they probably really really hope that MtUSA makes Hawaii a full member so they can have 10.


One important thing to consider: conferences change their plans based on changes that occur over time internally and in other conferences.

Of course it seems to make sense to everyone that the Big West passed on UCSD, a Division 2 school, since the only real option at the time for #12 was CSU-Bakersfield.

But with SDSU in the Big West now, it's not a stretch to think that the Big West would be jumping for joy to be at 11. They just added one of the top non-Pac12 basketball schools in the west that also has the benefit of FBS football. SDSU is a huge get for them, much bigger than even Hawaii. The Big East in now a position where who knows, they might come calling again out west for a #11 if Navy joins or even for replacements if they lose more schools...and that means the Big West could be a home for another big brand/larger school to jump in as #12. As long as that hope remains, albeit changes in attitudes at UNLV, or a school liek Fresno St, etc...then the Big West will know it's got a slot for them.


Just saying that the crazy Big East adding SDSU/Boise St. scenario was likely not on any big West officials minds way back when the top Big West option seemed to be, gulp, UCSD.



As you know from reading my entire post, I was quite clear in stating that when the Big West rejected UCSD, it was a much different time...a time when UCSD and CSUB were likely the TOP 2 options...and that NOBODY in the Big West expected that schools like SDSU would be available to the Big West. That has changed. And now SDSU is in the Big West. And other MWC might be available to the Big West if the Big East fills the expected #12 spot (once Navy is #11).

Does anyone think that if the Big East actually had interest in UNLV, that the school wouldn't reconsider a Big West/Big East situation like SDSU? Or that Fresno St. and others wouldn't jump at the chance? There is the potential for the Big West to slot in a rock star type of school. And you have to think that the Big west is monitoring things still. If you're the Big West, who would you rather have: UCSD or UNLV, Fresno St., etc? We know the Big West, like any conference, would want the best option possible. If no FBS schools are available, then it's back to UCSD and CSUB (unless you count UVU as a real option).


I did read your entire post. You give good reasons why the Big West has not added UCSD, then when a news article about it was posted, suddenly start cheering for it to happen! Of course it would be good for so UCSD to be invited to the Big West, that's quite obvious without needing to say it in a post!

If I had to guess, I'd say that UCSD gets shut out of the Big West. Long shot: UCSD ends up in the WAC if the WAC transitions to non-football, but it's not a real possibility right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Big West realignment
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:43 am 
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I think it will play out like this. BW will wait to see if BE takes Fresno for 12 or if SJSU becomes fb only in the WAC. If either of those happen then That will be where #12 is from. If not, I don't see them sitting on 11 for that long and they'll settle for UCSD. Also if by some chance Hawaii becomes all sports then the BW will stay at 10.

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 Post subject: Re: Big West realignment
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:28 am 
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http://californiareview.net/2012/02/25/lies-damned-lies-and-higher-education/

UCSD is set to begin student voting on a Division I referendum which would raise the necessary student fees to support Division I athletics. The voting starts Monday and goes through March 9th. If the students pass the referendum, the proponents' hope is that UCSD will be invited into the Big West by 2014.

My own speculation: If the student body doesn't pass this referendum, it makes it very unlikely that Division I sports will happen for at least the next decade for the Tritons. And I don't think it will pass. It's just a really bad time to be asking college students to raise their fees. There might've been more momentum for this before California's budget crisis and ensuing higher education shortfalls.


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