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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:53 pm 
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freaked4collegefb wrote:
Article out of Grand Forks with comments from Big Sky Commish regarding future of his league at http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/262923


I love the idea of a 3-tiered system to division 1 college football--the best of the Big Sky, CAA, and MVC could definitely hang with some of the "Group of 5".

I also think absorbing the other 3 Dakota schools is a natural move for the Big Sky. The devil is in the details but I think the smart folks in that commissioner's office can figure out a way to work it out.--I love the idea of Quads for football and then either a N/S or E/W split for Olympic sports. They could even do 3 pods of 5 for Olympic sports:

North
E Washington
Portland St
Idaho
Montana
Montana St

East
UND
ND St
USD
SD St
N Colorado

South
Idaho St
Weber St
S Utah
N Arizona
Sacramento St


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:24 am 
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fighting muskie wrote:
I also think absorbing the other 3 Dakota schools is a natural move for the Big Sky. The devil is in the details but I think the smart folks in that commissioner's office can figure out a way to work it out.--I love the idea of Quads for football and then either a N/S or E/W split for Olympic sports. They could even do 3 pods of 5 for Olympic sports:

North
E Washington
Portland St
Idaho
Montana
Montana St

East
UND
ND St
USD
SD St
N Colorado

South
Idaho St
Weber St
S Utah
N Arizona
Sacramento St


I love the Quad system too. But should the Big Sky add the other 3 Dakota schools to make it 15, they need a 16th member to have an equally 4-quad 4-team system. But which of the fb-affiliates would you prefer for full membership? UC-Davis or Cal Poly? Sadly, former Big Sky member Cal St.-Northridge no longer sponsors the sports after leaving the conference to join the Big West (which at the time started to drop football). And here's an interesting format under the quad system (at least for some sports like basketball):

Dakotas (East): North Dakota, North Dakota St., South Dakota, South Dakota St.
North: Montana, Montana St., Idaho, Idaho St.
West: Eastern Washington, Portland St., Sacramento St., Cal Poly/UC Davis
South: Weber State, Southern Utah, Northern Colorado, Northern Arizona

But to New Mexico St., I believe they would be a great addition for non-football sports, with basketball being improved. Plus, the closest travel partners for the Aggies would be Northern Arizona, Northern Colorado and Southern Utah.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:35 pm 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:

I love the Quad system too. But should the Big Sky add the other 3 Dakota schools to make it 15, they need a 16th member to have an equally 4-quad 4-team system. But which of the fb-affiliates would you prefer for full membership? UC-Davis or Cal Poly? Sadly, former Big Sky member Cal St.-Northridge no longer sponsors the sports after leaving the conference to join the Big West (which at the time started to drop football). And here's an interesting format under the quad system (at least for some sports like basketball):

Dakotas (East): North Dakota, North Dakota St., South Dakota, South Dakota St.
North: Montana, Montana St., Idaho, Idaho St.
West: Eastern Washington, Portland St., Sacramento St., Cal Poly/UC Davis
South: Weber State, Southern Utah, Northern Colorado, Northern Arizona

But to New Mexico St., I believe they would be a great addition for non-football sports, with basketball being improved. Plus, the closest travel partners for the Aggies would be Northern Arizona, Northern Colorado and Southern Utah.


When I came up with that scheme back in May my thought was that the 3 pods of 5 for Olympic sports was a tenable arrangement and then for football Idaho would continue playing FBS ball in the Sunbelt thus making the football quads:

ND St, UND, SD St, and USD
Montana, Montana St, E Wash, and Portland St
Idaho St, Weber St, S Utah, and N Colorado
Sacramento St, UC Davis, Cal Poly, and N Arizona

If Idaho wants to play FCS in the Big Sky it probably necessitates taking a 16th member (NMSU?) or jettisoning the Dakota project.

Like I've said before, I think the Big Sky is a conference that could actually benefit from losing members. Letting Sacramento St go to the Big West and getting UND into the Summit/MVFC would really help consolidate the league.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:04 am 
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fighting muskie wrote:
Like I've said before, I think the Big Sky is a conference that could actually benefit from losing members. Letting Sacramento St go to the Big West and getting UND into the Summit/MVFC would really help consolidate the league.


If Sacramento State joins the Big West, will it be like UC-Davis and Cal Poly in terms of fb-only members? But I do agree on the part of North Dakota joining the Summit (all-sports) & MVFC (football) would help out the league (at least for baseball too).

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:49 pm 
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So a week ago Friday...

http://www.oregonlive.com/collegefootba ... progr.html

Despite the optimism expressed in the article, the last two games had announced attendance under 5,000. It's a crowded marketplace with UO and OSU down the road. The stadium lease is up for renewal soon and the Portland Timbers whisper about replacing the turf with grass, knowing that won't happen if PSU football is still there.

The rumor is that 2012's paid average was 1,500.

The word "miracle" comes to mind when considering saving the program.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:55 am 
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Since Idaho will re-join next season to bring the non-football sports to 12 members, how about having Cal Poly-SLO and UC Davis joining the Big Sky as full members, to balance the sides with 14? For instance, here's a sample:

Big Sky North: Eastern Washington, Idaho, Idaho State, Montana, Montana State, North Dakota, Portland State
Big Sky South: Cal Poly-SLO, UC Davis, Northern Arizona, Northern Colorado, Sacramento State, Southern Utah, Weber State

Any thoughts?

P.S.: Which is the better non-FBS Western-based D-I conference (excluding the WAC)? The non-football Big West or the FCS Big Sky? Just for "step-by-step ladder effect" purposes.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:45 am 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Since Idaho will re-join next season to bring the non-football sports to 12 members, how about having Cal Poly-SLO and UC Davis joining the Big Sky as full members, to balance the sides with 14? For instance, here's a sample:

Big Sky North: Eastern Washington, Idaho, Idaho State, Montana, Montana State, North Dakota, Portland State
Big Sky South: Cal Poly-SLO, UC Davis, Northern Arizona, Northern Colorado, Sacramento State, Southern Utah, Weber State

Any thoughts?

P.S.: Which is the better non-FBS Western-based D-I conference (excluding the WAC)? The non-football Big West or the FCS Big Sky? Just for "step-by-step ladder effect" purposes.

It makes sense but the issue is your last question.

Neither conference is that great, as far as the conference latter goes they'd be pretty much side by side.

If you want to be techincal, the Big Sky has lost members to both the Big West and WCC (Gonzaga/CS-Northridge), and the WCC and Big Sky each lost 1 member to each other (Pacific/UCSB) so the Big Sky would be lower than both if you look at it that way.

Looking at it realistically, the WCC seems to be the best conference after the P12/MW, they have good basketball with Gonzaga, St Mary's, Pepperdine, Loyola Marymount, and BYU but they are all private schools so Davis/Poly likely wouldn't really be interested.

The Big Sky would seems to be better than the Big West as they have football and schools from multiple states, however (even for UC-Davis) no school in the Big Sky is closer than the furthest school is in the BW from NoCal to SoCal (omitting Hawaii). Also other than football (which the BW doesn't compete in) and basketball (which neither are really great bb conferences), the Big West is better at most other sports like track, volleyball, softball and the Big Sky doesn't sponsor many sports that have great support in the Big West like men's soccer, men's golf, and baseball. Add in the great academics in the Big West and it more than makes up for any perceived stigma for not sponsoring football IMO.

PAC12 (Big FBS state schools+Stanford/USC)
- (all below would move up if offered)
MWC (smaller FBS state schools)
- (any fb schools below minus BYU and maybe Hawii would move up if offered)
WCC (non fb private schools + BYU)
Big West (non fb Cali state schools +Hawaii, UC Davis, Cal Poly)
Big Sky (FCS small state schools not in Cali + Sac St, Idaho)
- (Cal Poly/UC-Davis could go Big Sky, Sac St could go Big West, FBS teams could leave for FBS league)
WAC (anyone in the Mnt/Pac time zone not in one of the above but all want out)
Seattle/Denver/GCU-WCC (though GCU's chance are slim to none)
CSUB-Big West
NMSU (anywhere, goal is MWC, but would take SBC all sport, CUSA, SLC, or Big Sky if could keep FBS fb or if it dropped down to FCS)
Utah Valley (should add football and join the Big Sky, as there is really no place for them outside of the WAC)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:53 am 
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tkalmus wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Since Idaho will re-join next season to bring the non-football sports to 12 members, how about having Cal Poly-SLO and UC Davis joining the Big Sky as full members, to balance the sides with 14? For instance, here's a sample:

Big Sky North: Eastern Washington, Idaho, Idaho State, Montana, Montana State, North Dakota, Portland State
Big Sky South: Cal Poly-SLO, UC Davis, Northern Arizona, Northern Colorado, Sacramento State, Southern Utah, Weber State

Any thoughts?

P.S.: Which is the better non-FBS Western-based D-I conference (excluding the WAC)? The non-football Big West or the FCS Big Sky? Just for "step-by-step ladder effect" purposes.

It makes sense but the issue is your last question.

Neither conference is that great, as far as the conference latter goes they'd be pretty much side by side.

If you want to be techincal, the Big Sky has lost members to both the Big West and WCC (Gonzaga/CS-Northridge), and the WCC and Big Sky each lost 1 member to each other (Pacific/UCSB) so the Big Sky would be lower than both if you look at it that way.

Looking at it realistically, the WCC seems to be the best conference after the P12/MW, they have good basketball with Gonzaga, St Mary's, Pepperdine, Loyola Marymount, and BYU but they are all private schools so Davis/Poly likely wouldn't really be interested.

The Big Sky would seems to be better than the Big West as they have football and schools from multiple states, however (even for UC-Davis) no school in the Big Sky is closer than the furthest school is in the BW from NoCal to SoCal (omitting Hawaii). Also other than football (which the BW doesn't compete in) and basketball (which neither are really great bb conferences), the Big West is better at most other sports like track, volleyball, softball and the Big Sky doesn't sponsor many sports that have great support in the Big West like men's soccer, men's golf, and baseball. Add in the great academics in the Big West and it more than makes up for any perceived stigma for not sponsoring football IMO.

PAC12 (Big FBS state schools+Stanford/USC)
- (all below would move up if offered)
MWC (smaller FBS state schools)
- (any fb schools below minus BYU and maybe Hawii would move up if offered)
WCC (non fb private schools + BYU)
Big West (non fb Cali state schools +Hawaii, UC Davis, Cal Poly)
Big Sky (FCS small state schools not in Cali + Sac St, Idaho)
- (Cal Poly/UC-Davis could go Big Sky, Sac St could go Big West, FBS teams could leave for FBS league)
WAC (anyone in the Mnt/Pac time zone not in one of the above but all want out)
Seattle/Denver/GCU-WCC (though GCU's chance are slim to none)
CSUB-Big West
NMSU (anywhere, goal is MWC, but would take SBC all sport, CUSA, SLC, or Big Sky if could keep FBS fb or if it dropped down to FCS)
Utah Valley (should add football and join the Big Sky, as there is really no place for them outside of the WAC)


My apologies if my last question didn't make any sense. I was trying to prove a point, when it comes to conference realignment. No disrespect, but because I'm simply not a fan of football-only affiliates. That should be settled for other sports except basketball. In my understanding, to be an all-sports member for a particular conference or as an Independent, the most-spekked (or specified) sports are basketball and football.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:05 am 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
My apologies if my last question didn't make any sense. I was trying to prove a point, when it comes to conference realignment. No disrespect, but because I'm simply not a fan of football-only affiliates. That should be settled for other sports except basketball. In my understanding, to be an all-sports member for a particular conference or as an Independent, the most-spekked (or specified) sports are basketball and football.

You're question was fine, I simply explained which conference were better/higher on the latter.

Between the WCC/BigWest/BigSky its not an easy answer.

I understand you are not a fan of football only affiliates, but they happen.

For Hawii to join the MWC as a full member it increases the travel cost for both Hawaii (who now instead of flying to LAX/SFO has to fly to more remote locations at a higher expense) and the MWC (who would have to send all their non-revneue sports from Wyoming/Colorado/Utah/Idaho to Hawaii at a larger expense). While I understand its distasteful, you have to recognize that both Hawaii and the MWC save money and time with this arrange and both receive exactly what they want, Hawaii wants to play big boy football and keep overhead low for non-revenue sports (basketball is a non-revenue sport for Hawaii FYI) the MWC gets Hawaii's great fb and bowl game, and the Big West gets another good acadmeic school to associate with and also now has a unique travel destination to reward their athletes who otherwise are simply in a state-wide bus league.


For UC-Davis/Cal Poly to join the Big Sky as a full members, its the same as above except the Big Sky most likely WANTS those schools but they don't want them. The Big Sky had the power say no to any fb-onlys and UC-Davis/Cal Poly would have been independents after the Great West fb collapsed, but they decided that having them in the conference (even as fb onlys) was worth it. Maybe they are trying to allow them to get comfortable and then threaten to kick them out if they don't join as full members however that's their call.

Still as far as football only members are concerned everyone involved is getting exactly what they want except the Big Sky who decide they would rather have fb-only memberships from Davis/Poly than nothing at all. So while I understand the idea that everyone should play all sports in a fb conference, when you tell them that it increases their cost w/o increasing their revenue, it not really a convincing argument.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:15 am 
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@tkalmus - I can see your explanation. But thanks for trying to understand what I was trying to say or discuss. Now that you mention it that the Big Sky is a Western U.S. regional conference, I still believe that North Dakota should not be in the Big Sky for a very long time, because they're in the Upper Midwest, like far away from their conference foes. I hope by after the university find a suitable nickname to replace their former well-traditional one within the Fighting Sioux as of 2015-16, hopefully they would consider to join the Summit for most of their sports (including baseball) and the MVFC for football. Because in my opinion still, the Dakota schools must meet up at least once annually in terms of rivalries. And then, there should be a special cup or trophy for the Dakotas only to prove which of the 4 is the best between the 2 Dakota states (whether for football or basketball or any other sport alike).

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