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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:27 am 
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Too much pride in Vandal land to assess the obvious. They don't belong in FBS. But damned if Boise State really gets the best of them that way.

Funny thing is I've run into competing whispered rumors; U San Diego is moving to the Sky (football only) or shutting down football. Nothing published. It's somehow not surprising that both come up simultaneously.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:15 am 
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pounder wrote:
Too much pride in Vandal land to assess the obvious. They don't belong in FBS. But damned if Boise State really gets the best of them that way.

Funny thing is I've run into competing whispered rumors; U San Diego is moving to the Sky (football only) or shutting down football. Nothing published. It's somehow not surprising that both come up simultaneously.

If they can swing it under Title IX, it might be easier to offer scholarships than to send the football team east of the Mississippi four times per year.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:24 am 
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The administration and fans at Idaho need to admit reality: they can't continue on as a FBS program. The Sunbelt granted them a temporary reprieve partly out of Benson's guilt but also it seemed at the moment that it would help them meet their needs but I think the Sunbelt is already tired of the Vandals after one year and it is doubtful that they will renew the contract. A MWC invite is never going to materialize and even if the MWC decided to expand or needed a replacement there are plenty of better options out there like UTEP, UTSA, NMSU, Montana, and Montana St. Big Sky football gives them a chance to compete. Moscow, ID is not an attractive place to play an away game so life will be difficult if not impossible as an independent FBS program.

As for San Diego and their football situation the Big Sky is an interesting prospect. They would still need to fly to their games but at least the flights will be within the Pacific and Mountain time zones.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:14 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
The administration and fans at Idaho need to admit reality: they can't continue on as a FBS program. The Sunbelt granted them a temporary reprieve partly out of Benson's guilt but also it seemed at the moment that it would help them meet their needs but I think the Sunbelt is already tired of the Vandals after one year and it is doubtful that they will renew the contract. A MWC invite is never going to materialize and even if the MWC decided to expand or needed a replacement there are plenty of better options out there like UTEP, UTSA, NMSU, Montana, and Montana St. Big Sky football gives them a chance to compete. Moscow, ID is not an attractive place to play an away game so life will be difficult if not impossible as an independent FBS program.

As for San Diego and their football situation the Big Sky is an interesting prospect. They would still need to fly to their games but at least the flights will be within the Pacific and Mountain time zones.



San Diego will also benefit from good sized crowds at the BSC stadiums. Something I doubt they are used to in the Pioneer League.
So, shorter travel, plus decent pay checks, plus more fans. What more could San Diego ask for, right? When are they moving up?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 5:42 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
fighting muskie wrote:
The administration and fans at Idaho need to admit reality: they can't continue on as a FBS program. The Sunbelt granted them a temporary reprieve partly out of Benson's guilt but also it seemed at the moment that it would help them meet their needs but I think the Sunbelt is already tired of the Vandals after one year and it is doubtful that they will renew the contract. A MWC invite is never going to materialize and even if the MWC decided to expand or needed a replacement there are plenty of better options out there like UTEP, UTSA, NMSU, Montana, and Montana St. Big Sky football gives them a chance to compete. Moscow, ID is not an attractive place to play an away game so life will be difficult if not impossible as an independent FBS program.

As for San Diego and their football situation the Big Sky is an interesting prospect. They would still need to fly to their games but at least the flights will be within the Pacific and Mountain time zones.



San Diego will also benefit from good sized crowds at the BSC stadiums. Something I doubt they are used to in the Pioneer League.
So, shorter travel, plus decent pay checks, plus more fans. What more could San Diego ask for, right? When are they moving up?


I think that announcement hinges on an actual invite from the Big Sky. Right now the Big Sky is at 13 and I think the sentiment is that they really need to be at 14 and have divisions. The ideal scenario would be to get Idaho for football but Idaho continues to believe they can stay in FBS so I think other members are throwing out ideas and San Diego's name came up, probably at the suggestion of the CA schools and Northern Arizona.

On another topic: if 7 schools constitutes a conference in FCS, could the Big Sky claim two auto bids if they had two divisions of 7? Perhaps they'd have to do something creative like move 4 schools to the WAC and let the WAC count those 4 schools and football affiliates Cal Poly, UC Davis, and potentially San Diego as members in football? They could keep a scheduling agreement in place to fill out their football schedules.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:29 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
mozilla wrote:
fighting muskie wrote:
The administration and fans at Idaho need to admit reality: they can't continue on as a FBS program. The Sunbelt granted them a temporary reprieve partly out of Benson's guilt but also it seemed at the moment that it would help them meet their needs but I think the Sunbelt is already tired of the Vandals after one year and it is doubtful that they will renew the contract. A MWC invite is never going to materialize and even if the MWC decided to expand or needed a replacement there are plenty of better options out there like UTEP, UTSA, NMSU, Montana, and Montana St. Big Sky football gives them a chance to compete. Moscow, ID is not an attractive place to play an away game so life will be difficult if not impossible as an independent FBS program.

As for San Diego and their football situation the Big Sky is an interesting prospect. They would still need to fly to their games but at least the flights will be within the Pacific and Mountain time zones.



San Diego will also benefit from good sized crowds at the BSC stadiums. Something I doubt they are used to in the Pioneer League.
So, shorter travel, plus decent pay checks, plus more fans. What more could San Diego ask for, right? When are they moving up?


I think that announcement hinges on an actual invite from the Big Sky. Right now the Big Sky is at 13 and I think the sentiment is that they really need to be at 14 and have divisions. The ideal scenario would be to get Idaho for football but Idaho continues to believe they can stay in FBS so I think other members are throwing out ideas and San Diego's name came up, probably at the suggestion of the CA schools and Northern Arizona.

On another topic: if 7 schools constitutes a conference in FCS, could the Big Sky claim two auto bids if they had two divisions of 7? Perhaps they'd have to do something creative like move 4 schools to the WAC and let the WAC count those 4 schools and football affiliates Cal Poly, UC Davis, and potentially San Diego as members in football? They could keep a scheduling agreement in place to fill out their football schedules.


NCAA would require them to be two distinct conferences to get two bids. Just having two divisions wouldn't work. Sliding some schools over to the WAC to get the additional bid is a possibility but there is a minimum of how many full members sponsoring the sport needed to pull that off. I don't remember how many WAC schools would need to have football in order for that plan to work.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:37 pm 
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I can only find the message board banter from Idaho fans after the Idaho AD was interviewed at halftime of Saturday's game...

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=205&f=26 ... 288266&p=1

...but it appears the Big Sky and Idaho are due for the full marriage shortly. One rumor says an announcement next week, rumor, yada yada yada.

Big Sky IS making a play for New Mexico State, of course.

More rumors of the FBS/FCS combo-in-the-same-league being promised to Idaho. Sounds like it's the sugar to distract from the castor oil rather than anything concrete.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:30 pm 
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I would really like to see the Big Sky assemble enough FBS aspiring schools together to create an FBS conference home for Idaho and New Mexico St. Montana, Montana St, Portland St, Eastern Washington, and Sacramento St could probably do it. Then get Cal Poly, UC Davis, North Dakota St, and South Dakota St as football affiliates. The trick will be getting enough schools to get on board initially to make it happen. Realistically, I think they need 8 schools to Get the plan off the ground--Idaho and NMSU make 2 so they need 6 more.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:09 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
I would really like to see the Big Sky assemble enough FBS aspiring schools together to create an FBS conference home for Idaho and New Mexico St. Montana, Montana St, Portland St, Eastern Washington, and Sacramento St could probably do it. Then get Cal Poly, UC Davis, North Dakota St, and South Dakota St as football affiliates. The trick will be getting enough schools to get on board initially to make it happen. Realistically, I think they need 8 schools to Get the plan off the ground--Idaho and NMSU make 2 so they need 6 more.


Did you see where the Idaho AD is trying to sell to the local community a breakaway of research institutions?

Cal Poly
UC Davis
Idaho
Montana
Montana State
North Dakota
North Dakota State
South Dakota
South Dakota State

BTW, no, Idaho doesn't have the pull to, well, pull this off.

You know the next step will be "damn, we couldn't bend the Big Sky to our will, but we have no other choices. Sorry, peeps."

However, I'm still not sure if they're living in a bigger fantasyland than Doug Fullerton. He still watches over a conference where only two schools average more than 10,000 fans per game. Outside of the state of Montana, only a REPORTED 56% of seats are filled (and it's not that much, but then again, that's true of nearly every school anymore). There's really only three schools in the conference that have a bona fide presence in their states of residence, and Eastern Washington might currently have Spokane's attention a bit (which is by no means comparable to the number of people who have to die so one can buy Gonzaga basketball tickets, never mind Washington State's presence).


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:03 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
I would really like to see the Big Sky assemble enough FBS aspiring schools together to create an FBS conference home for Idaho and New Mexico St. Montana, Montana St, Portland St, Eastern Washington, and Sacramento St could probably do it. Then get Cal Poly, UC Davis, North Dakota St, and South Dakota St as football affiliates. The trick will be getting enough schools to get on board initially to make it happen. Realistically, I think they need 8 schools to Get the plan off the ground--Idaho and NMSU make 2 so they need 6 more.

Assuming there is no legislative relief from the NCAA, it may be easier for Idaho to return to the WAC, and then the WAC claim under its rights as a former FBS conference to invite six (or more) schools from FCS. The Big Sky then takes a school from the WAC for every member it loses to the WAC. The two could set it up to where the Big Sky is guaranteed six full members who play FCS football, forcing the WAC to actually grow the pie by inviting a Summit or Southland school.

The challenge is during year two of the transition process. The WAC football schools can't count each other as a FBS opponent - but every existing FBS program can. Cooperation with BYU is paramount to the plan's survival, as BYU could in theory play six WAC games each year for the final transition year, and the first full season of WAC football, all after October 15. BYU could even make them all 2-for-1s by playing a WAC school as its FCS opponent during the first transition year, and then scheduling the other five at its leisure.

If Idaho and New Mexico State are independent at this juncture as well, the same can be done with them. Depending on the level of urgency in Amherst, UMass might even be an option. That potentially gives all the transitioning schools four FBS opponents for year two (I believe the requirement is seven, and of course a full post-transition schedule would have eleven FBS opponents).

The WAC and Big Sky could conceivably swap charters or names if the Big Sky really wants to be the FBS league.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:30 pm 
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A few years ago, during all the FBS upheavel, the WAC was probing all the "bigger" Big Sky football programs to gauge their interst in FBS.

Thos schools (both Montanas, Cal Poly, Portland State...) just didn't have hte resources and seemed happy and stable with their situation in Big Sky / FCS.

This is where Idaho belongs (financially and geographically).... they have to save face.
The college president should be calling the shots, not the AD.
Yeah, they have to save face, as to why they would be FCS and Boise State succeeds in FBS....
Just state that their mission is academic excellence, and football is "for fun".

Nobody thinks the Ivy League schools or MIT or Cal Tech suck as universities, because they don't focus on FBS football.
Idaho probebly isn't normally mentioned in the same breath with those guys, but colleges should be focused on education,
and athletics should be secondary.

I realize that's a heretical thing to opine on this board....


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:21 pm 
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wbyeager wrote:
fighting muskie wrote:
I would really like to see the Big Sky assemble enough FBS aspiring schools together to create an FBS conference home for Idaho and New Mexico St. Montana, Montana St, Portland St, Eastern Washington, and Sacramento St could probably do it. Then get Cal Poly, UC Davis, North Dakota St, and South Dakota St as football affiliates. The trick will be getting enough schools to get on board initially to make it happen. Realistically, I think they need 8 schools to Get the plan off the ground--Idaho and NMSU make 2 so they need 6 more.

Assuming there is no legislative relief from the NCAA, it may be easier for Idaho to return to the WAC, and then the WAC claim under its rights as a former FBS conference to invite six (or more) schools from FCS. The Big Sky then takes a school from the WAC for every member it loses to the WAC. The two could set it up to where the Big Sky is guaranteed six full members who play FCS football, forcing the WAC to actually grow the pie by inviting a Summit or Southland school.

The challenge is during year two of the transition process. The WAC football schools can't count each other as a FBS opponent - but every existing FBS program can. Cooperation with BYU is paramount to the plan's survival, as BYU could in theory play six WAC games each year for the final transition year, and the first full season of WAC football, all after October 15. BYU could even make them all 2-for-1s by playing a WAC school as its FCS opponent during the first transition year, and then scheduling the other five at its leisure.

If Idaho and New Mexico State are independent at this juncture as well, the same can be done with them. Depending on the level of urgency in Amherst, UMass might even be an option. That potentially gives all the transitioning schools four FBS opponents for year two (I believe the requirement is seven, and of course a full post-transition schedule would have eleven FBS opponents).

The WAC and Big Sky could conceivably swap charters or names if the Big Sky really wants to be the FBS league.


Good thought about the WAC and its charter. They could argue that the WAC still has the right to be an FBS conference because it formerly sponsored at that level. Then there is the question about what to do with the schools that moved into the WAC when it was left as a shell:

Chicago St traded to Summit for North Dakota St
UMKC traded to Summit for South Dakota St
Seattle traded to Big Sky for Eastern Washington
Cal St Bakersfield traded to Big Sky for Sacramento St
Utah Valley traded to Big Sky for Montana
Grand Canyon traded to Big Sky for Montana St

I'm going say Portland St goes to the new FBS WAC. Add New Mexico St and Idaho and that makes 9 which is enough for full conference schedules. UC Davis and Cal Poly could potentially be football affiliates as members 10 and 11.

Not sure where UTRGV goes. They don't fit geographically with the a Big Sky and the Southland is a little crowded. Maybe they wander to the A-Sun?

I think there are enough schools at the top of FCS who feel like they need to be in a bigger pond that Idaho and New Mexico St can find conference mates if they can just hang on a little longer to get those schools lined up.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:07 pm 
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The Southland is currently at 13 members, so while a bit crowded, it would behoove themselves to add UTRGV. The Southland would probably lose a couple schools to FBS eventually if a new western FBS conference came to pass.

The irony is that all the shuffling probably makes Denver change conferences again given their animosity towards Grand Canyon and Chicago State - they might actually be begging to be readmitted to the WAC.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:23 am 
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Denver's a tough nut to crack. They seem content with the eastern arm of some of these conferences to align with them, but that filler territory and other institutional types put them at odds with some of the more likely spots for them. Big Sky's got flagships like Summit, but UNC and the other regional and system schools.

Honestly, if the Big West and WCC weren't cash-strapped for travel, both fit for Denver. Big West definitely has the kind of schools that jive academically, with the UC schools that populate nearly half the conference.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:53 am 
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Bear in mind - the rush to FBS is over.

If you are not in one of the P5 conferences, the Big TV $$$ is not there.

The P5 schools receive maybe $20 - 30 million / yr in TV money.
The G5 schools receive less than $2 million /yr in TV money.
FCS schools way less than $1 million / yr.

So if a smaller school has to spend millions on a stadium upgrade, and 20+ more scholarships for FB,
and then 20+ more scholarships for womens sports (due to title IX) and then endure way more travel costs to be in a more far-flung conference,
the school is incurring tens of millions of dollars they may never re-coup.
Unless the school has several crazy-rich football-fanatic boosters - where is this money coming from ?

FBS is not for everybody.


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