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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:25 pm 
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tute79 wrote:
They need to understand their limitations as an institution.

They are not a flagship university. Starting up FBS (or FCS football) is an expensive proposition.
Their BB team is very good AT THE MOMENT, largely due to Greg Marshall.
Best case - he stays at WSU until he retires. Worst case - he moves to a bigger school next season.

WSU is a mid-sized midwestern school, and their resources are about in line with the MVC schools.

They should not be delusional abut becoming "the next Ohio State" or something...

I don't think they think they'll be Ohio State. I think they see their ceiling as Tulsa.

They could easily start football in the MVFC, and then beg for an invite from CUSA.

I think they see Missouri State as their peer, and have likely discussed the future of the MVC. Worst case scenario, WSU adds FCS fb and loses a little money. Best case scenario, they get an invite to CUSA. Most realistic scenario is to join the MAC along with Missouri State.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:05 am 
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Explain to me why CUSA is a step up from the MVC. The only sport CUSA is a step up is in football, and that's only due to CUSA being FBS. I would put money on the MVFC having better quality of football than CUSA (thank you NDSU). Furthermore, Wichita St wouldn't make that much more money in CUSA with football than they would in the MVC without it (I think its a difference of $4m or so

Remember, too, that WSU adding football will only be done if it enhances basketball. If the basketball program takes a step back in order to create a medicore FBS program, what good is it? The money really isn't there unless Wichita plays FCS with the rest of the Valley members, and even that wouldn't be a guarantee. If Charles Koch wants to donate money to upgrade the football facility, then that would help. WSU has the best facilities in the Valley as it is (which is why I don't think mens basketball would take much of a step back if Gregg Marshall left). But is that enough to make the program profitbale? That's the question.

Wichita's best case scenario is that the Valley members upgrade their scheduling in all sports, thus upgrading recruiting and fundraising. I think the Valley is a strong enough conference that they could start their own TV network. They would probably need to expand to see that network come to full fruition, though.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:51 pm 
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ShockerDR wrote:
Explain to me why CUSA is a step up from the MVC. The only sport CUSA is a step up is in football, and that's only due to CUSA being FBS. I would put money on the MVFC having better quality of football than CUSA (thank you NDSU). Furthermore, Wichita St wouldn't make that much more money in CUSA with football than they would in the MVC without it (I think its a difference of $4m or so


CUSA is better in many ways. They have a bigger contract, more national exposure with more televised games, more media markets, and a higher ranked members including 4 tier one research institutions (FYI MVC has 0).

This is a ends justify the means situation. I agree that WSU's best move may be to simply to play FCS, but the point of athletics is name recognition and to make money. IMO CUSA would get them more name recognition and money.

CUSA gets you a nice TV contract, plus the playoff money, bowl payouts, and money from being a body bag. The basketball isn't a step down, CUSA has 110 tournament bid (7.8 per school) The MVC is riding high right now but they still only have 67 total tournament bids between them (6.7 per school). The only way the MVC is better in basketball is that they've has more school with a history of a deep tournament run (but if you move WSU to CUSA they'd have the better history). But still to my point, nationally the perception is that WKU, ODU, UNCC, UAB, UTEP, and Marshall are better than Northern Iowa, Bradley, Loyola, Southern Illinois, Evansville, and Missouri State.

At the end of the day, if WSU gets an invite from CUSA (which is unlikely right now) they'd be stupid to turn it down. That's not saying the MVC is a bad conference, but I'm sure more MVC members would rather join CUSA, than CUSA members would be willing to join the MVC.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:42 pm 
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TKthunder wrote:
CUSA is better in many ways. They have a bigger contract, more national exposure with more televised games, more media markets

CUSA gets you a nice TV contract, plus the playoff money, bowl payouts, and money from being a body bag.


The “Nice” TV contract was $1.17 million per school, negotiated when Memphis, Tulsa, Tulane, SMU and Houston were still in the league. It’s about to expire.

The rumors are they’re looking at a TV contract less than $10 million, and at least half a million less than the old TV deal:

http://pilotonline.com/sports/college/o ... bcc60.html


I have not been able to find the terms of the MVC TV deal anywhere.

TKthunder wrote:
The basketball isn't a step down, CUSA has 110 tournament bid (7.8 per school) The MVC is riding high right now but they still only have 67 total tournament bids between them (6.7 per school). The only way the MVC is better in basketball is that they've has more school with a history of a deep tournament run (but if you move WSU to CUSA they'd have the better history). But still to my point, nationally the perception is that WKU, ODU, UNCC, UAB, UTEP, and Marshall are better than Northern Iowa, Bradley, Loyola, Southern Illinois, Evansville, and Missouri State.


The current C-USA teams have 110 tournament bids all time because they’ve been competing for decades in different leagues and earning auto-bids in different one-bid leagues.

9 of the 10 MVC members have been together since 1996, competing as one league for one auto bid and whatever at-larges they can get.

The Sun Belt auto is no longer available to WKU, MTSU, or UNT, Charlotte, ODU or UAB (18)
The Ohio Valley auto is no longer available to WKU, MTSU (15)
The Southland auto is no longer available to LT, UNT or UTSA (7)
The WAC auto bid is no longer available to UTEP, La Tech (5)
The Colonial auto is no longer available to ODU (5)
The Southwest Conference auto is no longer available for Rice (4)
The A-Sun auto is no longer available to FIU, FAU, or UTSA (3)
The SoCon auto is no longer available to Marshall (3)
The American South auto is no longer available to La Tech (3)
The Metro auto is no longer available to Charlotte (1)

63 of 110 NCAA bids by C-USA members were automatic bids in OTHER CONFERENCES (three of which no longer exist).

You drop those 63 and the 10 by Evansville/Loyola from other conferences and it’s 57-47 MVC.
And that’s considering the effect of having powerhouse teams like Memphis, Louisville, Cincinnati, Marquette with the old C-USA, BYU/Utah/New Mexico in the old WAC with UTEP, Florida State et al in the Metro, etc, etc.


Most historical data means absolutely jack. I’m an A-10 guy, and my school was in the 1970 Final Four. That means just about zero today in terms of our benefit to a conference.


Which brings me to my next point. C-USA has a ton of people in their geographic footprint and much larger markets than the MVC. But that hardly matters. The Big West (41) has more people in their footprint than the Big 12 (39 million) and the Big 12 TV deal is 100x the Big West’s.

People have to CARE about the product, and C-USA football & hoops doesn’t move the needle. Not that MVC does either. But at the end of the day, the decision for Wichita State would come down to:

Do we want to put our resources into being the best possible BASKETBALL PROGRAM, or do we want to spend a lot more money to try and make a little bit more money/exposure by having FOOTBALL.

The only reason to leave the MVC for C-USA is needing a home for their new FBS football team. That’s it.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:50 pm 
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What effects does the Sun Belt's decision to move to a 10-team, all sports conference have on the future of the Valley? Obviously this puts a wrench into MoSt's dreams of FBS football. Any other trickle-down effects?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:39 pm 
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ShockerDR wrote:
What effects does the Sun Belt's decision to move to a 10-team, all sports conference have on the future of the Valley? Obviously this puts a wrench into MoSt's dreams of FBS football. Any other trickle-down effects?


It isn't a total dream killer for Missouri St. The Sunbelt said no to NMSU and Idaho as affiliates--not no to ever having 12 football schools ever again.they could go to 12 in the future.

All in all I think this move stabilizes the MVC. No one is leaving any time soon. Wichita St can flirt with football if they want to. I don't see the Atlantic 10 stretching into the Midwest any time soon. The MVC is free to ponder if there is any way they could could go to. 12 and be better off (personally, I think staying at 10 is best)


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:21 pm 
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I think this is actually better news for the FBS-capable MVC schools, as NMSU and Idaho tied up the two extra spots. Now they just need to get UALR and UTA out of the way, and then Missouri State and Wichita State have an opening for FBS. Even then, that's still quite far off as WSU needs to establish itself at the FCS level.

The MVFC on the other hand, may be getting a huge pickup if NMSU is available, because this gives WSU football an expansion partner. There would also be the small chance of the MVFC shedding all its affiliates, which would mean NMSU would likely be playing Summit League football


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:24 pm 
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One of the geographic anomalies in FCS is the University of North Dakota.

They had been prevented from joining the Summit several years ago, largely due to the "Fighting Sioux" name battle with the NCAA.
Now this has been resolved with the change to "Fighting Hawks".

Geographically, they belong in the Summit and MVFC with NDSU, SDU, SDSU.
They joined the Big Sky (a little bit reluctantly), so they DID have a home fore their football team.

MVFC didn't want to expand to 11 at the time. There was no 12th team available in FCS at that time.
If there was an 12th candidate now (NMSU), might the MVFC expand with North Dakota and NMSU ?
North Dakota wiould have to co-ordinate this with getting an invitation to the Summit for other sports.....


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 5:27 pm 
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tute79 wrote:
One of the geographic anomalies in FCS is the University of North Dakota.

They had been prevented from joining the Summit several years ago, largely due to the "Fighting Sioux" name battle with the NCAA.
Now this has been resolved with the change to "Fighting Hawks".

Geographically, they belong in the Summit and MVFC with NDSU, SDU, SDSU.
They joined the Big Sky (a little bit reluctantly), so they DID have a home fore their football team.

MVFC didn't want to expand to 11 at the time. There was no 12th team available in FCS at that time.
If there was an 12th candidate now (NMSU), might the MVFC expand with North Dakota and NMSU ?
North Dakota wiould have to co-ordinate this with getting an invitation to the Summit for other sports.....


I agree. North Dakota is an oddball in the Big Sky and really belongs in the Summit/MVFC. The Summit has room for them if everyone is over the whole mascot thing but I guess there is reluctance by the MVFC to go to 11. I suppose a Wichita St program could be the MVFC's 12th.

I've always wondered if the Dakota schools are truly comfortable with their relationship with the MVFC. Sure it provides them a stable FCS home that competes at a high level but you have to think they are made to feel like guests in someone else's league.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:37 pm 
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Yeah, the league is run out of the MVC's office in St. Louis (as is the noon-scholarship Pioneer League).

However, the MVFC is NOT part of the MVC (the MVC technically can not sponsor football with less than 6 MVC members), according to NCAA rules.

The league had been called the Gateway Conference, but changed it about he time they went from 7 to 9 and had 5 members in the MVC, Youngstown State, and I think 3 members in the Summit (which may have been the Mid-Continent at that time.

When the MVFC went to 10, but didn't invite North Dakota, not sure if:
they wanted to stay with a 9-game round robin,
or they had an issue with the "Fighting Sioux" controversy,
or they wanted to limit the number of non-MVC schools in the MVFC.

The FCS playoffs have enough at-large berths, that adding another team or two to the league, doesn't really hurt your chances of making the FCS playoffs, although it does make it tougher to be the champion of the conference.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:48 pm 
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tute79 wrote:
However, the MVFC is NOT part of the MVC (the MVC technically can not sponsor football with less than 6 MVC members), according to NCAA rules.
,

I was unaware of this. This means Wichita St adding football would be a gamechanger for the conference in that it would allow the MVC to officially begin sponsoring football.

On a side note, am I the only person who thinks WSU adding football could possibly push Drake out of the MVC for good? I would think if the MVC could sponsor football on its own, then the other members could force Drake's hand by making them either bring their football program back from the Pioneer or push the rest of their sports out of the MVC. Drake hasn't exactly been successful as a Valley member, so adding another university in all sports in Drake's place could be beneficial for the entire league. Question is, who would they get?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 1:53 pm 
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Even if Wichita St started football I don't think Drake could be forced out. The nonfootball schools Evansville, Loyola, and Bradley would not allow it.

However, if Wichita St and the five other MVC/MVFC schools decided to pull out of the MVC and organize a new conference with W Illinois and the Dakota schools that would be different. In that case the four left behind schools, all private, are either looking at Summit of Horizon membership or pulling 6 members from those leagues to join them.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:16 pm 
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Not that this guy's opinion carries much weight, but it is a member AD, so ... ?

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wi ... 05147.html


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 10:11 am 
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Article out of Wichita discussing "possible" future move from WVC by WSU at http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wi ... 85147.html


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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 4:32 pm 
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Article out of Wichita with comments from WSU AD who says a consultant's report is expected by the end of the month that should/could help his school in it's conference search.Link at http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wi ... 70502.html


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