Here's a starting point for the Patriot League. Interesting rumors about Fordham leaving (football) so we might see some changes...

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The only rumor I've heard is add Marist as an all sports. They'd really need them for football if Fordham left.

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There's also some questions about Army and Navy, if they find the right fb conference would they go for all sports? Or possibly be fb-only post-split BE members and then play other sports with the non-fb schools? The academies could really send some shock waves throughout the league depending on what they decide to do.

Interesting. But I'm curious if Army and Navy are even interested in upgrading their other sports form the Patriot to say, the Big East (either side).

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This is true, though if Navy can get in a decent Central Atlantic conference, they may make a go at it without Army (much like Army did in CUSA football).

The service academies have such a handicap in terms of recruiting relative to the BCS schools.

Face it, it's a rare bird these days (OK, there was Roger Staubach, Napoleon McCallum, David Robinson in BB, but I'm going back over a span of 45 years) that will want to commit to a 4 year military stint, if they have college recruiters and others telling them that they have NFL potential.

Honestly, I think the Patriot League is probably about the right level of competitiveness, based on Army's / Navy's commitment to athletics. It'd probably be about the right level for their football teams as well, actually.
But both schools see the mission of their football teams as traveling nationwide and providing entertainment to troops and potential recruits, and giving the academies exposure. So both teams play up at the FBS level (even though their rosters are more commensurate with lower FBS / upper FCS talent). They fully expect to take it on the chin in a few games, but winning isn't the primary mission, it's exposure.... So being independent in FBS football helps with their ability to schedule whomever they want (they don't have 8 conference games in the middle-Atlantic states). Army was taking a real beating in C-USA. They stunk AND had little scheduling flexibilty. As an FBS Indy, they can schedule games all over the place and attempt to schedule a few cupcake opponents that they have a shot at beating. I sometimes think that Army / Navy might be better served from a competitive standpoint by playing football as FCS Independents. The down-side might be that they'd get less exposure playing in smaller stadiums, however, fielding a winning team may be preferable form an image standpoint, as opposed to getting your brains beaten out trying to go toe-to-toe with top FBS schools. I think the academies view their other sports more in terms of providing recreational outlets than doggedly pursuing national championships. So those sports teams should play other schools at the same level. Any thoughts of Army and Navy joining the Big East would likely result in some VERY bloody noses in basketball and a few other sports.


Air Force has managed to be middle-of-the-road in the MWC. The MWC works well geographically for a school in Colorado Springs, and most of the MWC teams (excepting perhaps BYU and Utah) don't dwarf at Air Force's athletic budget.
Air Force has less football scheduling capablity, however - every year, it's 8 MWC games, Army, Navy, and occasionally Notre Dame, then maybe only 1 or 2 others.

Article out of Lehigh Valley paper reporting yesterday's Fordham/Patriot League announced compromise which allows Fordham to remain associated with the league while they begin to gearup their scholarship based FB program.Article mentions that Patriot League officials plan to address possible league expansion by the end of 2010.Link at http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/sports/ ... resid.html

BE MB thread discussing recent Patriot League/Fordham scholarship decision with speculation regarding possible future league realignment.Link at http://ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?tid=372652

Hmmm... interesting thoughts in that message board thread, including Charlotte and/or Richmond and Northeastern and/or Hofstra switching A-10 and CAA conferences and the A-10 retaining football, and one post about Fordham going to the BE. The latter is a pipe dream at best, as Fordham's basketball sucks (and that's being polite), and St. John's already has the NYC market covered. The A-10/CAA swap is actually a bit feasible, though Richmond and Charlotte may not want to give up having Xavier on the schedule to boost their RPI.

Another possibility is that this could entice the PL to institute scholarship football as a whole, if they see Fordham having success and earning at-large I-AA bids. That remains entirely to be seen though, an d it wouldn't hurt for them to upgrade their facilities (this actually could get them kicked out of the A-10, there are plenty of high schools with better facilities).

There's been alot of laughable stuff on Hofstra/NU and Richmond/Charlotte lately on forums, notably AGS and CAAzone.

* I do see benefits for Hofstra and Northeastern to return to the America East. But those schools don't see them as benefits. They aren't going anywhere.

* Richmond LEFT the CAA for the A10. They've gotten the taste of an autobid from the A10, something only what, 2 CAA schools had gotten in the history of the CAA at that point. And the A10 has since IMPROVED with the additions of St. Louis and Charlotte.

* Charlotte has football aspirations but they are more likely to aim to the Big East and then CUSA or even Sunbelt. Sure, they can play as a member of an FCS league for football, but basketball is their reveneue sport. They aren't downgrading in basketball for FCS football.

* Real simple: at this level, schools leave their conferences when it's an UPGRADE or a lateral move. They rarely downgrade. The bottom "line" is probably in the AE/CAA area. For instance, a Big East school isn't going to DOWNGRADE to the A10. An A10 school isn't going to DOWNGRADE to the CAA. A CAA school would not likely going downgrade to the America East. In lower mid-majors, you might see a rare Big South to A-Sun move or SoCon to Big South (VMI). But at that level, they are lateral moves depending on a smaller schools location, success and budget. With Hofstra and NU, the bottom "line" I reference is that those schools could see the benefits of less travel, better chance of winning as a reason to downgrade their conference affiliation. But it wont' happen. The AE is a mess with their new scheduling system (if school is 200 miles away, you travel the same day not the day before and stay at a hotel) and budget. It's not a desirable place for any new schools.

* Sure, the mentioned schools could move, but it would really take upgrades: Charlotte/Richmond would leave the A10 if the Big East came calling down the road. Hofstra and NU would leave the CAA if the A10 came calling.

* We need to remember that CAA Football is "sponsored" by the CAA in name only. The current 12 members of the league are equal members. So Maine has the same rights as JMU. So we call Umass/Richmond/Maine/URI/UNH/Villanova "associate members" but in reality they are full members, just like UD/JMU/Towson/W&M/NU/Hofstra.

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Also worth noting from that ncaabs thread about the A10.

the A10 has no interest in sponsoring football. At least they didn't when they DID sponsor it. It was just a label thrown on a league that already existed, the Yankee Conference. The CAA had 6 schools when NU joined, so they changed the label from A10 to CAA. The A10 is a 14 member basketball league with only 3 members that play football at that level (UMass/URI/Richmond). The time for a split was when NU joined. The CAA had 6 schools and could have formed a new conference with those 6 (and eventually ODU and GSU). Instead they chose to keep the league as is but just change the name.

So the CAA schools can't kick out the non-CAA schools. And the non-CAA schools have no reason to leave. And the America East has not interest in football (since they passed on sponsorship in the past when they had the majority of the members).

So you've got (2) northern school in NU and Hofstra that would seem like a fit for a northern conference with UNH, Maine, UMass and URI. And you have Richmond and charlotte that seem like a fit in the south. But what do you do??? Have a CAA Football league with 2 CAA all-sport members in another league, meanwhile you have 2 NON-CAA all-sport schools in that league?

It's just a mess to split.

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NYTimes article reporting that the Patriot league will be voting some time this week regarding whether or not to add FB scholarships.Also,Fordham to the CAA is mentioned.Link at http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/14/sport ... ships.html

It's amazing how long (years) this has been going on.

The Patriot is in a very good spot if they chose to allow scholarships. There could be immediate opportunities to solidify their football membership with schools like UNH and Maine. While URI is slated for the NEC, who is to say they wouldn't consider the Patriot in that scenario.

And of course, who knows what the future holds with potential FBS upgrades like UMass, UD, JMU, ODU and GA St.

the Patriot might be at the right place at the right time and be able to bring in richmond and W&M, two schools that would be perfect fits for the Patriot.

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FCS MB thread discussing this week's Patriot League FB scholarship vote at http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthr ... ips-(Again)

Somebody please enlighten me if I have this wrong.

I think the Patriot League and the Ivy League don't give out athletic scholarships for football, however, many of their players receive need-based or merit based aid. The NCAA limits FCS football scholarships to 63, and the Patriot League is required to limit the aid to the football team to no more money than 63 "scholarship equivalents". I think in fact, they may (by conference rule) limit it to less than 63 equivalents.

So some of the Patriot League's rules are philosophical. It is not clear that switching over to "football scholarships" will cost all that much more money. To some degree it is a change in terminology as to whether the football players are receiving "aid" or "scholarships".

The other question - in the view of the Patriot League / NCAA / legal system, how are "scholarship equivalents" viewed in terms of Title IX compliance ? Are those equivalents counted as scholarhips now, or would the Patriot schools have to reallocate existing scholarships from men to women to re-balance their scholarships to stay Title IX compliant ? That may be part of the issue here, and a reason for the Patriot to resist the use of football "scholarships".

Agree with Quinn - if the NY / NE members in CAA football feel isolated, the Patriot League could expand with some of:
Maine
UNH
UMass (if they don't upgrade and jon MAC football)
URI
Stony Brook
Albany
and keep Fordham in the fold.

The driver for this is Fordham, but the ramifications of their decision could be much farther-reaching.