CAA Realignment

accseahawk · **Posted:** Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:52 pm

My ranking of CAA Expansion Candidates

1. Charlotte - Word is in 49er land that they are either going to the CUSA/Alliance or the CAA. If the CAA can land Charlotte than they need to do it. SunBelt does not seem to be an option for them per their people in the know. The most obvious choice, but they might not take the invite having declined in the past.

2. App St - With no FBS invitation forthcoming, App St. might enjoy the chance to play in the premier FCS conference along with upgrading their hoops competition. But they might not be interested in leaving one FCS conference for another

3. College of Charleston - Does not help with maintaining the FCS football league, but would be a steal for the premier sport of the CAA along with being a solid baseball program too. May not want to leave SoCon having turned down CAA in the past

4. Davidson - This would be a purely basketball move as Davidson fits the SoCon profile very well but with hoops being their bread and butter they may appreciate the upgrade in competition. May not want to leave SoCon having turned down CAA before.

5. Coastal Carolina - A definite yes and a solid FCS member. The weakest basketball program of all the Candidates though.

6. Stony Brook - If the CAA goes north instead of south they are the team that will get in. Solid FCS members and would upgrade hoops to fit CAA profile. Would allow for even split of north south divisions but would leave founding member UNCW without a southern partner

Quinn · **Joined:** Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:05 am **Posts:** 3753

accseahawk wrote:

My ranking of CAA Expansion Candidates

1. Charlotte - Word is in 49er land that they are either going to the CUSA/Alliance or the CAA. If the CAA can land Charlotte than they need to do it. SunBelt does not seem to be an option for them per their people in the know. The most obvious choice, but they might not take the invite having declined in the past.

2. App St - With no FBS invitation forthcoming, App St. might enjoy the chance to play in the premier FCS conference along with upgrading their hoops competition. But they might not be interested in leaving one FCS conference for another

3. College of Charleston - Does not help with maintaining the FCS football league, but would be a steal for the premier sport of the CAA along with being a solid baseball program too. May not want to leave SoCon having turned down CAA in the past

4. Davidson - This would be a purely basketball move as Davidson fits the SoCon profile very well but with hoops being their bread and butter they may appreciate the upgrade in competition. May not want to leave SoCon having turned down CAA before.

5. Coastal Carolina - A definite yes and a solid FCS member. The weakest basketball program of all the Candidates though.

6. Stony Brook - If the CAA goes north instead of south they are the team that will get in. Solid FCS members and would upgrade hoops to fit CAA profile. Would allow for even split of north south divisions but would leave founding member UNCW without a southern partner

Thing is though, you still need to factor in football preservation as the top requirement for expansion. That said, need to also consider:

* Charlotte has already turned down the CAA in previous months. Charlotte asked about joining for football, the CAA said "only if it's all-sports", Charlotte rejected them right away. Now, as we know, the CAA is not in as much of a power position as they were in the past with now UMass and Georgia St. gone, following the departures of URI, NU and Hofstra. But regardless, if we all know Charlotte is planning to upgrade to FBS, and the CAA rejected them for football only in the past...and the CAA now needs 1 ALL-SPORTS member to join...and Charlotte already rejected them...then why would Charlotte even be an all-sports option now? If you have sources for yourself, then that's great intel. But just looking at the facts we already have, I dont' see why Charlotte would downgrade in basketball with their only benefit being to have a temporary conference for 3 years to play FCS football.

* College of Charleston has twice rejected CAA invitations, the most recent one being just a few years ago when the CAA had a spot. Upon that rejection, the CAA went another path.

As for my own list:

* Whomever is brought in will HAVE to be for all-sports AND have football. The reason is that the CAA now only has 5 all-sports members, needs a 6th to maintain sponsorship of the sport (UD, Towson, JMU, W&M, ODU).

Options:

1) try for App St. Since it's a football decision first, gotta try them. If they say "yes, but only with Georgia Southern", then just invite them both. Why not if as a conference you are so sure that the 5 current members with football aren't going anywhere.
2) Stony Brook: TY is already planning more talks with Stony Brook. They have football, are in the footprint, travel partner for Hofstra.

That's about it. If App St. says no, SB says yes. GA replaced.

If VCU and GMU opt to pay the $1.2 million exit fee and forfeit the tourney shares (doubtful they'd leave now in my opinion), then you bring in BU to give the CAA some access into Boston, since NU doesn't exactly cut it and BU has better facilities, etc. And for #12, Davidson is a great pick...similar standards as w&m. make a great #12 as a replacement

accseahawk · **Posted:** Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:57 pm

Quinn wrote:

accseahawk wrote:

My ranking of CAA Expansion Candidates

1. Charlotte - Word is in 49er land that they are either going to the CUSA/Alliance or the CAA. If the CAA can land Charlotte than they need to do it. SunBelt does not seem to be an option for them per their people in the know. The most obvious choice, but they might not take the invite having declined in the past.

2. App St - With no FBS invitation forthcoming, App St. might enjoy the chance to play in the premier FCS conference along with upgrading their hoops competition. But they might not be interested in leaving one FCS conference for another

3. College of Charleston - Does not help with maintaining the FCS football league, but would be a steal for the premier sport of the CAA along with being a solid baseball program too. May not want to leave SoCon having turned down CAA in the past

4. Davidson - This would be a purely basketball move as Davidson fits the SoCon profile very well but with hoops being their bread and butter they may appreciate the upgrade in competition. May not want to leave SoCon having turned down CAA before.

5. Coastal Carolina - A definite yes and a solid FCS member. The weakest basketball program of all the Candidates though.

6. Stony Brook - If the CAA goes north instead of south they are the team that will get in. Solid FCS members and would upgrade hoops to fit CAA profile. Would allow for even split of north south divisions but would leave founding member UNCW without a southern partner

Thing is though, you still need to factor in football preservation as the top requirement for expansion. That said, need to also consider:

* Charlotte has already turned down the CAA in previous months. Charlotte asked about joining for football, the CAA said "only if it's all-sports", Charlotte rejected them right away. Now, as we know, the CAA is not in as much of a power position as they were in the past with now UMass and Georgia St. gone, following the departures of URI, NU and Hofstra. But regardless, if we all know Charlotte is planning to upgrade to FBS, and the CAA rejected them for football only in the past...and the CAA now needs 1 ALL-SPORTS member to join...and Charlotte already rejected them...then why would Charlotte even be an all-sports option now? If you have sources for yourself, then that's great intel. But just looking at the facts we already have, I dont' see why Charlotte would downgrade in basketball with their only benefit being to have a temporary conference for 3 years to play FCS football.

* College of Charleston has twice rejected CAA invitations, the most recent one being just a few years ago when the CAA had a spot. Upon that rejection, the CAA went another path.

As for my own list:

* Whomever is brought in will HAVE to be for all-sports AND have football. The reason is that the CAA now only has 5 all-sports members, needs a 6th to maintain sponsorship of the sport (UD, Towson, JMU, W&M, ODU).

Options:

1) try for App St. Since it's a football decision first, gotta try them. If they say "yes, but only with Georgia Southern", then just invite them both. Why not if as a conference you are so sure that the 5 current members with football aren't going anywhere.
2) Stony Brook: TY is already planning more talks with Stony Brook. They have football, are in the footprint, travel partner for Hofstra.

That's about it. If App St. says no, SB says yes. GA replaced.

If VCU and GMU opt to pay the $1.2 million exit fee and forfeit the tourney shares (doubtful they'd leave now in my opinion), then you bring in BU to give the CAA some access into Boston, since NU doesn't exactly cut it and BU has better facilities, etc. And for #12, Davidson is a great pick...similar standards as w&m. make a great #12 as a replacement

the thing about charlotte is they seem hell bent on cusa/alliance as their fbs conference. per their message board intel they do not seem to be interested in the sunbelt and I don't know if they would consider the umass model in order to remain in the a10. they may desire to establish their football program in the caa until the cusa/alliance decides they are ready. they have to do something with their football program and if the alliance says no, per their intel, they are expecting caa in some way, shape or form.

i think uncw gets/maintains a southern travel companion. if charlotte and app say no coastal will likely get the go ahead. while coc has turned down the caa in the past, the caa could pursue them again and offer stony brook a football only invite, which they would accept and would help keep the fcs caa strong. the caa has some options to play with but they need to know who is interested and who is not. coastal/stony brook would both say yes for all sports, so if their are more desireable options, now is the time to figure them out

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:39 pm

So if VCU and GMU won't leave w/ a 1.2 mill exit fee, why did A-10 drag their feet? A10 > CAA, so 1.2 mill could be made up over time and tv contract future NCAA tourneys. They were going to lose the credits even before the fee hike.

accseahawk · **Posted:** Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:28 am

if the caa can prevent/convince vcu and gmu from leaving that is a very solid defensive move by the conference.

vcu and gmu may be learning from charlotte that life in the a10 is not all its cracked up to be for large public schools in the south. more than likely though, the primary lack of movement is from the a10 not being able to guarantee vcu and gmu enough of a short term gain financially. the tv contract is up and their is no guarantee on what kind of exposure and financials the a10 can provide vcu and gmu. plus the a10 is always going to run the risk of being a big east breakups feeding grounds.

if vcu and gmu do stay the caa could always go to 14 with boston u, stony brook, and a southern fcs school like app st. or coastal. that would solidify the fcs league and clean up the geography in one move.

Quinn · **Joined:** Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:05 am **Posts:** 3753

Fresno St. Alum wrote:

So if VCU and GMU won't leave w/ a 1.2 mill exit fee, why did A-10 drag their feet? A10 > CAA, so 1.2 mill could be made up over time and tv contract future NCAA tourneys. They were going to lose the credits even before the fee hike.

Right. Which is why vcu and Gmu need to wait until July before doing anything since the caa pauouts come in July. So the exit fee bump is seemingly not to prevent those 2 but to milk extra money

accseahawk · **Posted:** Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:42 am

but yo

Quinn wrote:

Fresno St. Alum wrote:

So if VCU and GMU won't leave w/ a 1.2 mill exit fee, why did A-10 drag their feet? A10 > CAA, so 1.2 mill could be made up over time and tv contract future NCAA tourneys. They were going to lose the credits even before the fee hike.

Right. Which is why vacuum and Gnu need to wait until July before doing anything since the caa pauouts come in July. So the exit fee bump is seemingly not to prevent those 2 but to milk extra money

but you get your payout on july 1st which is the day after you have to give 1 year notice. so if gmu and vcu stay around to collect their check , they won't be leaving until 2014-2015 season. they would basically have 2 lame duck years if they wait for their checks unless they work out a deal.

freaked4collegefb · **Joined:** Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:37 pm **Posts:** 7048

CSNBBS MB thread discussing Brett McMurphy report that the CAA has postponed todays scheduled vote regarding CAA exit fee increases.Link at http://www.csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=565174

Quinn · **Joined:** Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:05 am **Posts:** 3753

Well, being that the CAA exit fee vote was postponed, cancelled for today, it would seem that maybe some sides are switching...like JMU/ODU/UD realizing a "yes" vote is only going to hurt them, since it's not like NU, Drexel, Towson, W&M or UNCW have any opportunities to upgrade in conference stature, while GMU and VCU (and ODU) are A10 candidates and UD/JMU/ODU are FBS options.

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:32 pm

This is the rule of thumb, buyouts prove that people in your league want to leave and will still go even if you raise the fees. Good new for GMU and VCU is that at least 2 other schools think they might be moving in the next 3 years or so, so the they balked at a fee increase.

freaked4collegefb · **Joined:** Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:37 pm **Posts:** 7048

Article out of Delaware discussing post GSU CAA realignment possibilities at http://www.delawareonline.com/article/2 ... Sports%7Cs

JPSchmack · **Joined:** Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:21 pm **Posts:** 851

accseahawk wrote:

vcu and gmu may be learning from charlotte that life in the a10 is not all its cracked up to be for large public schools in the south. more than likely though, the primary lack of movement is from the a10 not being able to guarantee vcu and gmu enough of a short term gain financially. the tv contract is up and their is no guarantee on what kind of exposure and financials the a10 can provide vcu and gmu. plus the a10 is always going to run the risk of being a big east breakups feeding grounds.

Most likely, it's that these things always take time. Whether it's time in public, or time in private. even though it was completely private with no leaks, the WCC/Pacific deal still was a four-month process.

What's their to learn from Charlotte? Charlotte looking into other conferences has nothing to do with the A-10, but their FBS aspirations. Something VCU and George Mason do not share.

-- unrelated, but I find it quite amusing that Charlotte and Saint Louis entered the A-10 with nine total NCAA bids in the previous 10 years out of C-USA (supposedly a "Better league" than the A-10), and in seven seasons in the A-10, Charlotte and Saint Louis have combined for ONE bid in the A-10. Perception is awesome, isn't it? --

Either way, I don't care who you are, if you don't have a football team at all, the best non-football league you can be in is the Atlantic 10.

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:16 pm

JPSchmack wrote:

accseahawk wrote:

vcu and gmu may be learning from charlotte that life in the a10 is not all its cracked up to be for large public schools in the south. more than likely though, the primary lack of movement is from the a10 not being able to guarantee vcu and gmu enough of a short term gain financially. the tv contract is up and their is no guarantee on what kind of exposure and financials the a10 can provide vcu and gmu. plus the a10 is always going to run the risk of being a big east breakups feeding grounds.

Most likely, it's that these things always take time. Whether it's time in public, or time in private. even though it was completely private with no leaks, the WCC/Pacific deal still was a four-month process.

What's their to learn from Charlotte? Charlotte looking into other conferences has nothing to do with the A-10, but their FBS aspirations. Something VCU and George Mason do not share.

-- unrelated, but I find it quite amusing that Charlotte and Saint Louis entered the A-10 with nine total NCAA bids in the previous 10 years out of C-USA (supposedly a "Better league" than the A-10), and in seven seasons in the A-10, Charlotte and Saint Louis have combined for ONE bid in the A-10. Perception is awesome, isn't it? -- Either way, I don't care who you are, if you don't have a football team at all, the best non-football league you can be in is the Atlantic 10.

They both told me they lost all their recruits when they dropped to the A10 :twisted:

Seriously I can't explain it. That was the best CUSA ever was too. Marquette, Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis, UAB

freaked4collegefb · **Joined:** Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:37 pm **Posts:** 7048

Roanoke Times article with speculation regarding "possible" CAA expansion candidates.Link at http://www.roanoke.com/sports/college/wb/307409

JPSchmack · **Joined:** Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:21 pm **Posts:** 851

Fresno St. Alum wrote:

JPSchmack wrote:

accseahawk wrote:

vcu and gmu may be learning from charlotte that life in the a10 is not all its cracked up to be for large public schools in the south. more than likely though, the primary lack of movement is from the a10 not being able to guarantee vcu and gmu enough of a short term gain financially. the tv contract is up and their is no guarantee on what kind of exposure and financials the a10 can provide vcu and gmu. plus the a10 is always going to run the risk of being a big east breakups feeding grounds.

Most likely, it's that these things always take time. Whether it's time in public, or time in private. even though it was completely private with no leaks, the WCC/Pacific deal still was a four-month process.

What's their to learn from Charlotte? Charlotte looking into other conferences has nothing to do with the A-10, but their FBS aspirations. Something VCU and George Mason do not share.

-- unrelated, but I find it quite amusing that Charlotte and Saint Louis entered the A-10 with nine total NCAA bids in the previous 10 years out of C-USA (supposedly a "Better league" than the A-10), and in seven seasons in the A-10, Charlotte and Saint Louis have combined for ONE bid in the A-10. Perception is awesome, isn't it? -- Either way, I don't care who you are, if you don't have a football team at all, the best non-football league you can be in is the Atlantic 10.

They both told me they lost all their recruits when they dropped to the A10 :twisted:

Seriously I can't explain it. That was the best CUSA ever was too. Marquette, Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis, UAB

That's a load of crap.

#1 - CUSA and the A-10 were vying for the title of "best non-BCS conference." With the top of CUSA going to the Big East, the A10 became the best of non-BCS conference.

#2 - Who'd they lose the recruits to? The peer groups for each institution are:
SLU:
Georgetown, Villanova, Notre Dame, Seton Hall, St. John's, Providence (already in a better league and getting better recruits);
DePaul, Marquette (NCAA Tournament teams in 2003, getting better recruits anyway)
Xavier, Dayton, Saint Joe's (already in the A-10, so conference affiliation ain't scaring them away)
MVC schools (already in a worse league).

Charlotte:
Memphis, UAB, So Miss, ECU, UCF, etc (in a league now worse than the A-10)

#3 - Conference affiliation is a reason schools release kids from NLIs.

#4 - The move wasn't effective for two years. During which time, the A-10 had the #2 team in the country and put TWO into the Elite Eight, including a St. Joe's team that was ranked #1 in the country during the 2004 season. That would help their recruiting far more than hurt it.

#5 - In the time between the announcment and the move to the A-10, Charlotte made the NCAA Tournament out of C-USA in the final season of the old alignment. They made the dance in 2004 and 2005. They returned their best play for their first season in the A-10 and three starters while adding a pair of impact players (Goldmire and Alexander).

What hurt Charlotte and Saint Louis was the A-10 scheduling policy which was horrible and misguided under Linda Bruno (and against the wishes of the ADs from Xavier and Dayton, two of the top three programs in the league).

#6 - If St. Bonaventure can get guys to make TWO NCAA tournaments in the last 12 years out of the A-10; and Saint Joe's can reach #2 in the country and have a 27-0 regular season before the start of the A-10 tourney, I think Saint Louis and Charlotte would have no problem getting the recruits they need to be successful in that league.

CAA Realignment

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