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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:21 pm 
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Lots of interesting thoughts here. I'd like to touch on as many as I can:

First, I think it will be terribly difficult to get schools from more prestigious conferences to downgrade. If a school has worked themselves all the way up into the CAA it's hard to see them voluntarily give all that progress up. While some schools seem like odd fits in their current conferences (UNC Greensboro in the SoCon for instance) conference affiliations are status symbols. Unless a school is hard pressed for money and can't compete at their current level it's unlikely that they will pull a UMKC.

As for strife in the MEAC, I think it exists but I'm not sure how serious some of the disgruntled schools are about actually leaving and I think are more interested in trying to leverage their conference mates. Delaware St could be an exception--I think they style themselves as a Northeastern/MidAtlantic school rather than a southern HBCU. Being in a Northeasten Conference like the NEC would vastly cut down on their travel; the question is will there ever be a mutual interest. As for schools who are unhappy about the playoff decision, I think they are more apt to be talking to the football schools in the Big South than the non-football A-Sun.

Very rarely is it beneficial for a conference to lose members, especially one as low on the totem pole as the A-Sun. I don't see the loss of any of the schools who have used them as a springboard to better things as positive.

I also think that the right DII schools could help the A-Sun tremendously. They need to find new blood that falls within a neat footprint to form the base. I think that big schools like Nova Southeastern and UAH and regional football programs like Valdosta St, West Georgia, West Forida, and North Alabama would give this conference a footprint and some sustainability as opposed to a halfway house.

NJIT was a temporary (and poor) solution to a permanent problem. The A-Sun needs to build for the future rather than finding quick fixes to their ongoing membership problems.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:12 am 
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ctx48c wrote:
The atlantic sun does not need any division 2 schools.


I find it hilarious that SOME people seem to conveniently forget that probably half of the FCS used to be D2 including piddling schools like North Dakota State. There are FCS caliber schools who've stayed in D2 for different reasons and none of them have anything to do with not belonging in D1.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:29 am 
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fighting muskie wrote:
Lots of interesting thoughts here. I'd like to touch on as many as I can:

First, I think it will be terribly difficult to get schools from more prestigious conferences to downgrade. If a school has worked themselves all the way up into the CAA it's hard to see them voluntarily give all that progress up. While some schools seem like odd fits in their current conferences (UNC Greensboro in the SoCon for instance) conference affiliations are status symbols. Unless a school is hard pressed for money and can't compete at their current level it's unlikely that they will pull a UMKC.

As for strife in the MEAC, I think it exists but I'm not sure how serious some of the disgruntled schools are about actually leaving and I think are more interested in trying to leverage their conference mates. Delaware St could be an exception--I think they style themselves as a Northeastern/MidAtlantic school rather than a southern HBCU. Being in a Northeasten Conference like the NEC would vastly cut down on their travel; the question is will there ever be a mutual interest. As for schools who are unhappy about the playoff decision, I think they are more apt to be talking to the football schools in the Big South than the non-football A-Sun.

Very rarely is it beneficial for a conference to lose members, especially one as low on the totem pole as the A-Sun. I don't see the loss of any of the schools who have used them as a springboard to better things as positive.

I also think that the right DII schools could help the A-Sun tremendously. They need to find new blood that falls within a neat footprint to form the base. I think that big schools like Nova Southeastern and UAH and regional football programs like Valdosta St, West Georgia, West Forida, and North Alabama would give this conference a footprint and some sustainability as opposed to a halfway house.

NJIT was a temporary (and poor) solution to a permanent problem. The A-Sun needs to build for the future rather than finding quick fixes to their ongoing membership problems.


You are exactly right. And to those who have conveniently forgotten that probably half of FCS used to be D2 (including North Dakota State), there are D2 schools out there that are superior in many ways to many current FCS schools who chose not to move up for other reasons than not belonging in D1. North Alabama, for one, chose to stay in D2 to host the NCAA D2 National Championship Game and did so successfully for 27 years, second only to Omaha for most years hosting a National Championship game. A growing school with a rich tradition in football, baseball, basketball, volleyball and soccer in a metro area of 150,000 and great media coverage from nearby Huntsville which is closing in on half a million and sends more students to UNA than any one city other than Florence.

The football team averages 10,000 per game despite playing some teams that most fans really don't care about so there's no doubt UNA would immediately be in the Top 20 in attendance when they move up.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:18 am 
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kperk014 wrote:
ctx48c wrote:
The atlantic sun does not need any division 2 schools.


I find it hilarious that SOME people seem to conveniently forget that probably half of the FCS used to be D2 including piddling schools like North Dakota State. There are FCS caliber schools who've stayed in D2 for different reasons and none of them have anything to do with not belonging in D1.



I don't believe that anyone is forgetting that many DII schools have moved up the ladder. I think what is being questioned(though I'm guessing since CTX doesn't really explain his point) is the value of DII programs.

What is being overlooked here....The A-Sun is a very weak DI conference.

What can they do to fix that issue?:
-Stay at 8? --Doubt that would help since this is the group that is creating their current circumstance.
-Add quality schools in quality markets? --Should add some depth and media coverage if done right.


So, to say..."The atlantic sun does not need any division 2 schools." ...might be a bit pre-mature, because they surely need something. If they can get another DI program...then I'm all for it. But, if they can't....there are some good sized DII schools in their footprint that need to come aboard.
Create some buzz and add more financial backing to the conference before the conference gets the label of 'bottom dweller' or they face further exits.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:01 pm 
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I kind of think that NJIT was a band aid for the conference. Both NJIT and the Atlantic Sun know that NJIT would jump to the NEC or American East at the next chance. I think the Atlantic Sun would need to add at least 2 D2 schools to help itself. They could have a 18 game schedule for basketball.Should NJIT bolt the conference if they get a better offer then they could add another D2 school near the main conference footprint. I wouldn't be surprised if they might add 2 schools by next year. At the very least the NJIT move bought them at least a year or 2 to look at D2 schools.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:28 pm 
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46566 wrote:
I kind of think that NJIT was a band aid for the conference. Both NJIT and the Atlantic Sun know that NJIT would jump to the NEC or American East at the next chance. I think the Atlantic Sun would need to add at least 2 D2 schools to help itself. They could have a 18 game schedule for basketball.Should NJIT bolt the conference if they get a better offer then they could add another D2 school near the main conference footprint. I wouldn't be surprised if they might add 2 schools by next year. At the very least the NJIT move bought them at least a year or 2 to look at D2 schools.


They are a bandaid fix and they aren't going to stay forever. I think they A-Sun needs to concentrate their focus on courting regional institutions in DII that will be committed to remaining conference members for a decade or more. They need to bring these programs in sooner rather than later so they can start counting as eligible members so the conference never finds itself below the NCAA minimum. They really dodged a bullet when UAB revive football and stay in C-USA; the cascade they would have started could have left the conference on death's doorstep. The A-Sun has a lot going for them and some attributes that no other league can match. Where else can you find a conference with 4 members in the recruiting hotbed and evergrowing state of Florida as well as members in suburban Atlanta and Nashville? It's time to build for tomorrow and thinking of themselves as a long term league rather than a half way house.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:07 am 
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fighting muskie wrote:
(NJIT) They are a bandaid fix and they aren't going to stay forever.



NJIT, isn't going to turn around and walk away from the only conference that was willing to give them a chance. They also, don't want to be Independent again...under any circumstance.

They paid their entrance fee....they won't just leave in a year...and lose all that money...plus, incur an exit fee.
They also, aren't going to get an invite from another conference...just because the A-Sun took them. If the NEC or AE wanted them....they would have invited them already. It is obvious that neither of those conferences are interested in NJIT. Which means...NJIT will be in the A-Sun for quite a while.

I see NJIT as more than just a band-aid.
A band-aid, is disposable and only useful for a short period of time. NJIT certainly isn't disposable to the A-Sun. Because the A-Sun values DI programs....maybe too much....but, the fact is...they DO. Also, the A-Sun knows....Lipscomb will be an obvious choice to replace Belmont in the OVC, should Belmont get the call from another league. Which means that the A-Sun is primed to lose another DI member...as soon as Belmont gets the call.
One question I have....If NJIT is good enough to get in....then why didn't they add them two years ago? It would have only strengthened the group...and may have kept NKU in the conference??

The A-Sun is used to having a unique footprint. Stretching into Texas or up to New Jersey is no big deal to them.

I would guess....that the A-Sun is hitting up every other DI program on the east coast...that has any desire at all to relocate. Like....Longwood, Radford, CoC, the UNC group, UMBC, UMEasternShore, Morehead, others?.....just to test the reactions of those schools. The A-Sun knows they need bodies, maybe not today, but soon. I think they will exhaust all the DI options...then look to DII.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:20 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
I would guess....that the A-Sun is hitting up every other DI program on the east coast...that has any desire at all to relocate. Like....Longwood, Radford, CoC, the UNC group, UMBC, UMEasternShore, Morehead, others?.....just to test the reactions of those schools. The A-Sun knows they need bodies, maybe not today, but soon. I think they will exhaust all the DI options...then look to DII.

All of those schools you listed would have more travel expenses in the A-Sun. For example, the Big South schools have a nice compact conference with some nearby rivalries, and wouldn't get more money, NCAA tourney bids, or media coverage in the A-Sun. The A-Sun is equivalent to the WAC out west. They'll take anyone they can get, forget about a conference footprint or not wanting D2 universities.

Later edit: In fact if i were the A-Sun, i'd worry about USC-Upstate bolting for the Big South. Spartanburg is right in the middle of the Big South footprint, and REALLY close to some Big South members.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:48 pm 
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JeffConn wrote:
mozilla wrote:
I would guess....that the A-Sun is hitting up every other DI program on the east coast...that has any desire at all to relocate. Like....Longwood, Radford, CoC, the UNC group, UMBC, UMEasternShore, Morehead, others?.....just to test the reactions of those schools. The A-Sun knows they need bodies, maybe not today, but soon. I think they will exhaust all the DI options...then look to DII.



All of those schools you listed would have more travel expenses in the A-Sun.


I didn't say that the schools would or should accept the invite. I simply said, that the A-Sun has to, at least, inquire as to their availability. It's called...due diligence.
If all the DI programs are satisfied with their situation....then against CTX's advice....they will look at DII.

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 Post subject: Atlantic Sun Realignment
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:51 pm 
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JeffConn wrote:
mozilla wrote:
I would guess....that the A-Sun is hitting up every other DI program on the east coast...that has any desire at all to relocate. Like....Longwood, Radford, CoC, the UNC group, UMBC, UMEasternShore, Morehead, others?.....just to test the reactions of those schools. The A-Sun knows they need bodies, maybe not today, but soon. I think they will exhaust all the DI options...then look to DII.

All of those schools you listed would have more travel expenses in the A-Sun. For example, the Big South schools have a nice compact conference with some nearby rivalries, and wouldn't get more money, NCAA tourney bids, or media coverage in the A-Sun. The A-Sun is equivalent to the WAC out west. They'll take anyone they can get, forget about a conference footprint or not wanting D2 universities.

Later edit: In fact if i were the A-Sun, i'd worry about USC-Upstate bolting for the Big South. Spartanburg is right in the middle of the Big South footprint, and REALLY close to some Big South members.

The possible dark cloud in the distance is the Sun Belt takes Coastal Carolina and the Big South takes two members. Kennesaw State would be taken simply to consolidate its athletic offerings in one conference. USC Upstate would be the sixth member of the Big South's South Division with either Gardner-Webb or UNC-Asheville moving north.

The flip side is that the Sun Belt takes Coastal Carolina and the Big South does nothing, except perhaps ask Campbell, Davidson, and Jacksonville if they could start offering football scholarships. This keeps UNC-Asheville and Gardner-Webb from being put into different divisions, and everyone makes a few more dollars as the NCAA tournament unit is split fewer ways. The Big South could then work with the Atlantic Sun to find a more suitable travel partner for NJIT that also happens to play football.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:29 pm 
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It seems like the Atlantic Sun is satisfied with the Minimum number of members as long as the Conference is receiving some revenue from the NCAA Basketball Tourney.

I think that ctx48c wanted NJIT to go to a higher ranked Conference and thus NJIT is better that playing upcoming D2 Schools.

The following is a quote from the Atlantic Sun Commissioner two years ago.
March 16, 2013
Macon Telegraph: Football is in A-Sun’s Future; How and When are the Questions
(Sorry the link to that article has expired.) Following is a portion of that article.

Football was no doubt a topic during the tournament, considering that the A-Sun doesn’t sponsor football. One member is playing football, two more start this fall, one more has finally received state approval, and another appears on the verge of announcing the resumption of the sport.
And with college administrations open to moving their programs almost anywhere, the future of the A-Sun and football’s impact on it are on the table.
A-Sun commissioner Ted Gumbart is more than aware of all of that and has been for years. He talked about everything from lacrosse to football in a 90-minute sit down a week before the tournament.
Football, in one form or another, is part of the A-Sun’s future.
“We are not starting this exploration today,” Gumbart said. “It’s been ongoing, and I do feel like there’s progress being made. If in five years, there’ll be some changes, whether we’re in the football business or we’re part of a football operation or we’ve changed the way the Atlantic Sun operates, I think those are all logical outcomes.
“We’ve got to deal with that dynamic.”

The last 3 paragraphs of the Article were:

Nevertheless, Gumbart and the A-Sun have several options to consider, in conjunction with non-member schools and other conferences. But the conference and football becoming connected appears inevitable, once some dominoes actually fall.
“We’re trying to create options for ourselves just like schools are trying to create options for themselves,” Gumbart said, noting not just football as options for schools and conference. “But what is the best?
“The best is basketball rises, and football, everybody’s desires are accommodated without having to abandon your basketball aspirations.”

If they do decide to go with football Delaware State might be a start since that just added them in Lacrosse, always there might be some other East Coast Members might be interest in joining for football, they could pull Kennesaw State back for football. Then their members that play Non- Scholarship football might decide to start scholarship football. Also you got D2 Members West Georgia and North Alabama looking to go D1.

If they decide against football, then they could go with the following D2 Members Nova Southeastern or Palm Beach Atlantic with would be a travel partner for Florida Gulf Coast. Maybe add Georgia Regents or Columbus State or Alabama Huntsville.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:52 pm 
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The A-Sun is so reluctant to add schools....I don't get how they are going to be able to get fb going?? Are they planning on doing it...one school at a time?

IF, they, as a conference, were planning a fb move....why did they add NJIT?? Wouldn't it have been better to use that spot for a fb school instead of going out of footprint for a non-fb school??

The stories of the A-Sun starting fb...seem to be working against what the A-Sun is actually doing.

I don't believe that the A-Sun should stay at 8. 10 would be a much safer number. Even 9 would be better then 8, in my opinion. As I'm certain everyone's math will tell them....8 schools = 14 bb games and 9 schools would yield 16 bb games in conference scheduling. Which makes scheduling easier for each athletic dept. So, rather than having to fill a huge schedule...and basically, recruit schools in bulk....the schools can relax a bit...and try to improve their OOC scheduling and RPI at the same time. Therefor, adding schools would give the conference a chance to tailor make their OOC schedule to help improve the conferences chances to make the post season, which also increases the available funds to distribute to each member.

Adding one or two DII schools, right now. Wouldn't hurt the current payout for each school. Because, the two new schools wouldn't be eligible to receive post season money until they were full DI members. Also, the conference would receive one or two entrance fees which goes directly into the conference's coffers.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:19 pm 
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NJIT joined the Atlantic Sun because they needed to get into a conference ASAP.

The America east played lots of games with them.

Given the nature of NJIT and most members of the America East they are some what similar in nature and in location.

That is not true of the Atlantic Sun.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:19 pm 
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ctx48c wrote:
The America east played lots of games with them.

Given the nature of NJIT and most members of the America East they are some what similar in nature and in location.


I don't think AEast was messing with them, though it's possible AEast is still a mess organizationally. A lot of the NJIT-AE stuff was coming from the NJIT side, with AE sort of sitting silently. It should have been known when UM-Lowell got picked up, NJIT's candidacy took a considerable shot. It wasn't a secret NJIT needed more D1 programs and better facilities. That's something the AEast could have said to NJIT just as NJIT entered D1 hoops. A LOT has changed since then, including the need for AEast to take on additional non-fb schools...


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:43 pm 
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Yes the aE was messing with NJIt.

They started lacrosse for AE.

They were told to add more women's sports.

They were told to build a a larger on-campus arena.

They scheduled lots of AE schools.

But the AE did not admit.


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