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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 10:15 am 
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Washington Post blog article reporting that BE and Big Ten will start "Gavitt Tipoff Games" starting in 2015-2016 at http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/co ... story.html


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:06 am 
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http://www.providencejournal.com/sports ... etball.ece

Saw this on Frank the Tank's site. Big East not expanding. Dumb or smart?

Also, interesting conversation there about a potential merger that never happened. If Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma St went to the PAC, and Missouri and Texas A&M went to the SEC (which happened). Baylor, Kansas, Kansas St, and Iowa St along with TCU would forces with the former Big East schools West Virginia, Cincinnati, Louisville, Connecticut, Rutgers, and South Florida (after Syracuse and Pittsburgh left for the ACC) along with the non-football schools.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:32 pm 
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I don't think staying at 10 is wise. There are programs out there like St Louis and Dayton that fit the profile and who are NCAA tournament regulars. VCU or Richmond would add a new market. You could even get crazy and make a deal with UMass to get the league a bigger presence in New England. They don't need to go crazy--12 is a good number. 2 extra teams would give FOX more bb inventory too.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:07 pm 
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BePcr07 wrote:
http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/content/20140607-kevin-mcnamara-rhodys-schools-maintaining-their-distance-in-basketball.ece" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Saw this on Frank the Tank's site. Big East not expanding. Dumb or smart?

Also, interesting conversation there about a potential merger that never happened. If Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma St went to the PAC, and Missouri and Texas A&M went to the SEC (which happened). Baylor, Kansas, Kansas St, and Iowa St along with TCU would forces with the former Big East schools West Virginia, Cincinnati, Louisville, Connecticut, Rutgers, and South Florida (after Syracuse and Pittsburgh left for the ACC) along with the non-football schools.


Hahaha, I forgot RI had four D1 schools. How could I forget Brown?!

I think the conference is being a bit greedy with their network handler. The per-school share stays the same with expansion, and I think that's what's bugging them. The travel budget would likely rise with the kind of new members being speculated. You want them to join the conference? Pay us to get there.

But, I think it's a good decision not to expand if there isn't unanimous consensus as to who to invite. Too many "undesirables" are what caused the last split. The lack of added incentive, too, doesn't do much for them.

I also think it's smart because with the kind of names in the Big East, only sending four schools (and they were lucky to get those four) shows there's work to be done. Beefing up the non-conference is a smart idea, in theory. The A10, a hodgepodge of small private schools and variously sized public ones sent six, and it's showing those with less can do more.

Send a few more schools to the dance, get more than the A10 in the process, and that should generate some concessions from their network backer.

They added Denver for lacrosse, though. That keeps them relevant in lacrosse with both a great program and the minimum needed for AQ (as Marquette enters). I think that acquisition, the Denver one, over Richmond, shows maybe the conference isn't as hot on the Spiders as some might think.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:16 am 
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*posted from other topic* I don't know about you guys, but after seeing this pic: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... er_map.png (with soon-to-be new member Davidson in 2014), I think that the next two teams in line to head to the new Big East should be Dayton and Saint Louis; because not only for the recent success within this past season and those prior to that, but also they fit in the Big East's geographic footprint; giving the A-10 to be a more Eastern-specifically based conference with some Mid-South Atlantic flavor. Your thoughts?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:20 am 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
*posted from other topic* I don't know about you guys, but after seeing this pic: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... er_map.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (with soon-to-be new member Davidson in 2014), I think that the next two teams in line to head to the new Big East should be Dayton and Saint Louis; because not only for the recent success within this past season and those prior to that, but also they fit in the Big East's geographic footprint; giving the A-10 to be a more Eastern-specifically based conference with some Mid-South Atlantic flavor. Your thoughts?

The Big East doesn't care about the A10. They will pick the best schools that fit.

St Louis fits in almost every way possible: qualty school/team, fills in the gap in the middle of the Western flank and of course is a private/Catholic school.

Dayton fits in many of the same ways except 2: they are a duplicate market with Xavier and are also located in the West.

If the Flyers were located in the East (say Mass, Conn, Upstate NY, Western Penn, or Virginia) then they'd be a shoe in.

If they were located in another market in the West that was misssing from the Big East (like Kansas City, Minneapolis, Detroit, or Cleveland) then I'd like their chances better.

But as it is, they are in a tough spot, why add them when you can add St Louis or why add them to the East when you can make the divisions align better with a school like Richmond?

My guess is that the Big East adds St Louis and Richmond andthat the A10 will repsond by adding 2-3 school near Dayton (in order to keep them) like Valpo, Detroit, and Belmont.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:48 am 
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tkalmus wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
*posted from other topic* I don't know about you guys, but after seeing this pic: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... er_map.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (with soon-to-be new member Davidson in 2014), I think that the next two teams in line to head to the new Big East should be Dayton and Saint Louis; because not only for the recent success within this past season and those prior to that, but also they fit in the Big East's geographic footprint; giving the A-10 to be a more Eastern-specifically based conference with some Mid-South Atlantic flavor. Your thoughts?

The Big East doesn't care about the A10. They will pick the best schools that fit.

St Louis fits in almost every way possible: qualty school/team, fills in the gap in the middle of the Western flank and of course is a private/Catholic school.

Dayton fits in many of the same ways except 2: they are a duplicate market with Xavier and are also located in the West.

If the Flyers were located in the East (say Mass, Conn, Upstate NY, Western Penn, or Virginia) then they'd be a shoe in.

If they were located in another market in the West that was misssing from the Big East (like Kansas City, Minneapolis, Detroit, or Cleveland) then I'd like their chances better.

But as it is, they are in a tough spot, why add them when you can add St Louis or why add them to the East when you can make the divisions align better with a school like Richmond?

My guess is that the Big East adds St Louis and Richmond andthat the A10 will repsond by adding 2-3 school near Dayton (in order to keep them) like Valpo, Detroit, and Belmont.


re: Richmond

how do you feel the competitiveness of Richmond will factor in? ...for example: the BE might not want a school that will compete at the highest level(as well as SLU).
also, they aren't Catholic. and currently...the conference is 90% Catholic(assuming that they want to keep the non Catholic members to a minimum???). What will happen with this?

Thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:45 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
tkalmus wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
*posted from other topic* I don't know about you guys, but after seeing this pic: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... er_map.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (with soon-to-be new member Davidson in 2014), I think that the next two teams in line to head to the new Big East should be Dayton and Saint Louis; because not only for the recent success within this past season and those prior to that, but also they fit in the Big East's geographic footprint; giving the A-10 to be a more Eastern-specifically based conference with some Mid-South Atlantic flavor. Your thoughts?

The Big East doesn't care about the A10. They will pick the best schools that fit.

St Louis fits in almost every way possible: qualty school/team, fills in the gap in the middle of the Western flank and of course is a private/Catholic school.

Dayton fits in many of the same ways except 2: they are a duplicate market with Xavier and are also located in the West.

If the Flyers were located in the East (say Mass, Conn, Upstate NY, Western Penn, or Virginia) then they'd be a shoe in.

If they were located in another market in the West that was misssing from the Big East (like Kansas City, Minneapolis, Detroit, or Cleveland) then I'd like their chances better.

But as it is, they are in a tough spot, why add them when you can add St Louis or why add them to the East when you can make the divisions align better with a school like Richmond?

My guess is that the Big East adds St Louis and Richmond andthat the A10 will repsond by adding 2-3 school near Dayton (in order to keep them) like Valpo, Detroit, and Belmont.


re: Richmond

how do you feel the competitiveness of Richmond will factor in? ...for example: the BE might not want a school that will compete at the highest level(as well as SLU).
also, they aren't Catholic. and currently...the conference is 90% Catholic(assuming that they want to keep the non Catholic members to a minimum???). What will happen with this?

Thanks

You have to make the move that makes the most sense.

StL makes perfect sense, meets all the criteria and even ties in Creighton (currently an outlier) into the conference as well as helps further tie the KC market into the Big East.

Wichita St and VCU are public, and until I hear the Big East say they will take a public school I won't believe it as a purely private organization can avoid disclosing a lot of information.

That leaves us with Dayton and Richmond.
Both private, both good at basketball, both know most of these schools pretty well,

Dayton - better academically & Catholic
Richmond - better geographic/division fit & new market

I think the Eastern schools want a solid/compact division and adding a school in Western Ohio stretches it too much. Richmond is the only real candidate that's private, competitive, and in the East. And while yes it loses 1 mark for not being Catholic, I don't think that outweighs geography and adding a new market (notice how none of the quality Philly/DC school are being talked about how every member of the Big East is in a different state?).

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:10 am 
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I think them not taking St. Louis in the last round of expansion and what now may be this year, too, is a good sign the conference doesn't really trust St. Louis' relatively recent "run of success." Once Majerus' kids are gone, it could be an even bigger flop than Butler took, except that at least Butler's been to a couple of championships (and almost had one, too). St. Louis...I don't get the appeal. Take the Majerus era out of their resume, and the resume isn't strong at all. It isn't a fortress even with his time. Footprint and Catholic school aside, I doubt they really add to the conference once they're in. They're no Xavier or Creighton (or even Butler).

Richmond...the Big East could have tapped them for just lacrosse, but didn't. They fit the academic metric, and Georgetown is sweet on them, but they're not the city of Richmond's top program. Remember when Richmond beat Syracuse in the tournament way back when? How much of a shock that was? Now they're Big East material? Hmmm...


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:27 am 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
I think them not taking St. Louis in the last round of expansion and what now may be this year, too, is a good sign the conference doesn't really trust St. Louis' relatively recent "run of success." Once Majerus' kids are gone, it could be an even bigger flop than Butler took, except that at least Butler's been to a couple of championships (and almost had one, too). St. Louis...I don't get the appeal. Take the Majerus era out of their resume, and the resume isn't strong at all. It isn't a fortress even with his time. Footprint and Catholic school aside, I doubt they really add to the conference once they're in. They're no Xavier or Creighton (or even Butler).

Richmond...the Big East could have tapped them for just lacrosse, but didn't. They fit the academic metric, and Georgetown is sweet on them, but they're not the city of Richmond's top program. Remember when Richmond beat Syracuse in the tournament way back when? How much of a shock that was? Now they're Big East material? Hmmm...


StL was in talks to join but they decided to stop at 10, I don't think anything changed. Basketball success isn't all they are focusing on.

Richmond LAX is just starting, Denver is established and needed a home while Richmond had one. Richmond has been #1 in their city for years, VCU is only a recent success.

But if its not StL/Richmond, then who is it? Dayton and ????

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:43 am 
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Richmond might be the rich school, but if you've been through Richmond anytime in the last 10 years, there's an awful lot of black and yellow you'll see when passing through. The school is growing, and the promotion is nuts. Neither VCU or Richmond are terribly deep in its basketball legacies, but VCU has been a consistent contributor since the 90's. Yes, Richmond got ahead of them conference-wise when they got into the A-10, but the Colonial of those years were somewhat respectable, too, and VCU was usually the one getting its ticket stamped while Richmond existed in the middle of the A10. I like both programs, but VCU's the one with the bigger following. If you're looking for the program that will travel with the club and want to have a good showing, neither are like Creighton fans, but VCU's more like them than Richmond. But I don't see VCU getting an invite. It's a private school league.

I don't begrudge the Big East for taking Denver. Denver's a ringer, and in a conference that isn't deep in lacrosse (pretty much only Georgetown), Denver's a great addition. But...it's not like the conference needed to stay at six, and Richmond's already got one more appearance in a tournament in the sport than St. John's ever had. I think taking Richmond on in anything would show that there's interest in working with the Spiders. That one seemed easy, but didn't happen. I still think they might be a school getting the invite, but I don't think their case is all that favorable.

I know St. Louis was a target in the last round of expansion. I think they'll eventually get in the conference. I just think they're a slam dunk either, and that they want a program who's going to contribute to the basketball pot (and that is something the conference wants, as it wants to ramp up its OOC fare to cover where the field folds during the conference schedule), SLU has sustainability issues.

I'm fuzzy on how that Fox Deal works, but I thought the Big East would have been given more money (with no per-school dilution) for anyone so the BE could get to twelve. What I'm unsure of was whether they had to take two schools, or could they have taken one? If St. Louis' candidacy was so strong as others indicate, and the conference could have taken them without any pressure from the network, why didn't they? I've heard some people suggest it had to do with round-robin and home-and-home's, and the conference kept indicating that it was happy with "these ten schools." Would it be safe to assume St. Louis was a far more distant candidate than others thought, so much so that even with money still on the table, the conference would still rather stand at ten then extend even one invitation?

If I were to rank who the Big East would consider, I'd put them:
1) Gonzaga
2) UConn (I still think the conference would work with them if UConn could figure something out for football)
3) BC and Syracuse (not joking, those guys are stuck on the two of them)
4) St. Mary's or San Francisco (to go along with Gonzaga)
5) Denver's other sports (if distance could be accounted for financially, and maybe if the "bridge" for the conference to Gonzaga)
6) St. Louis
7) Richmond
8) Dayton
9) Duquesne
10) Bradley

Half that list a pipe dream, but I think, for the deal that's on the table, that's the side of it the Big East will want if it has to expand with no additional revenue demands (although it's going to take some for Gonzaga and another western partner or so). 6 on down will always be there, and I honestly think the conference doesn't want them unless there's more money for all from the network to take them.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:58 am 
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Those schools really wanted the "Big East" moniker....

Gonzaga makes a mockery of that. If they weren't out in Washington state, they'd be near the top of my list too,
but you have to consider the travel cost for all those sports other than basketball.

It has been noted that Richmond, although private, is not catholic.
It should be pointed out that Butler, although private, is also NOT catholic.

So the Big East currently is NOT an all-catholic conference, therefore this is not necessarily an impediment to adding Richmond.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:35 am 
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tute79 wrote:
Those schools really wanted the "Big East" moniker....

Gonzaga makes a mockery of that. If they weren't out in Washington state, they'd be near the top of my list too,
but you have to consider the travel cost for all those sports other than basketball.

It has been noted that Richmond, although private, is not catholic.
It should be pointed out that Butler, although private, is also NOT catholic.

So the Big East currently is NOT an all-catholic conference, therefore this is not necessarily an impediment to adding Richmond.


Well, why does Gonzaga disgrace that name? When they opened the doors for DePaul and Marquette, and again for Butler and Creighton, and then once again for Denver lacrosse, wasn't that just as bad? I mean, the football side got ribbed after the TCU addition, then the Houston and SMU ones, and then even more so for Boise and SDSU (and the pursuit of BYU and AFA). The name on the door needs to be taken with a grain of salt. A very large grain of salt. More like a rock.

I think Richmond's impediment is that they aren't much of an athletic department. Or, rather, not big enough (yet) to be "Big East." You're overlooking a lot of other more deserving programs to go in and select them.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:11 pm 
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I don't think anyone has argued that the BE won't allow a non-Catholic school into the mix. But, their ratio is 9:1. If, they keep that ratio...then, 1 out of the next 10 schools admitted to the BE will be non-Catholic(of course, they won't add 10...it will be less). But, will that one be Richmond, and, will that one be next in line after SLU.....I don't think anyone really knows??? I feel that there are way too many Catholic schools that fit the BE mold....to go heavy non-Catholic this early.

For market focus...I feel St. Louis and Pittsburg might be the best combination. Sure, Duquesne isn't 'all that' when it comes to competitiveness...but, that might be what the BE is looking for??? Someone who won't vie for championships the first five years. To combine with SLU who is pretty solid, these days. You know...add a whipping post.

I really don't feel that the BE will attempt to procure schools further west of Creighton.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:21 am 
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As an Ohioan i'm inclined to say darn the geography and let Dayton in because the Fliers have produced a great product but if we must chase markets I agree, St. Louis and Duquesne are the schools to go with.


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