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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:30 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
I think there are blue bloods among the Big East's Catholic 7 that will never feel that other programs deserve to be at their level. While Georgetown and Villanova can sort of justify this sort of snobbery concerning college basketball's nouveau riche, St John's, Providence, Seton Hall, and DePaul certainly have not done enough in the past two decades to support their eliteness--you can only rest on your laurels and prior glory years for so long. Sooner or later they are going to have to admit that they need to admit others who have demonstrated merit into the club or the Big East will turn into a club of has been so still dreaming of the 80's.


I would agree on the first part. But I also think the whole "Top to Bottom" discussions of thing is STUPID.

I need to come up with a way of visualizing exactly how conference schedules "work" when it comes to a season schedule for a group of teams.

Let's try this...
Imagine every conference is a net full of people, floating in the ocean... And every non-conference loss is a weight at the bottom of the net. The conferences that lose a lot in OOC play have more of their net underwater; the conferences who win more have more of their net above water.

But the shape of each net is always round: there's equal space above & below the equator of the net. Every CONFERENCE WIN & LOSS dictates where each member's head will be within the net.

The Big East's entire mantra is that there are 10 of them good enough for their net, and everyone else can fend for themselves in another net.

But if they had another DePaul: Someone who can win OOC and not add weight to the bottom of their net... but lie across the bottom of the net for the other 10 to stand on there's more people with their head above water.

And THAT'S why I say St. Bonaventure is a much better choice than Davidson, Saint Louis, Duquesne, etc. (Dayton is their best choice for an 11th, but they what they really NEED is someone like Bonaventure: Someone who can use the Big East name to bully smaller schools OOC, be the top Division I basketball team in a region without a lot of competition and not be a serious threat to steal NCAA bids from the founding members).


wbyeager wrote:
The Big East in some ways needs Davidson to return to peak form - Davidson is not Catholic, but getting into basketball-intoxicated North Carolina can't hurt. Charlotte is also a new market for the Big East, but not so far from Georgetown to be on an island.


Not to poop on Davidson, but where were they in the Big East discussion before this past season in the A-10? Everyone assumed they'd struggle a little upgrading from the SoCon to the A-10, like George Mason struggled when they joined. But they didn't, and all the sudden they are passing Richmond on the BE pecking order...

Two years ago, SLU was a "lock" because they had an NCAA team, now it's all quiet on that front because they aren't good.

Inviting a member is a PERMANENT DECISION. Conferences change, but it's from teams moving on. No one's been kicked out of a league against their will without being so unbelievably terrible and violating NCAA rules at the same time.

So look at what's going to change at a program when Rick Majerus is no longer the head coach of Saint Louis; Bob McKillop is no longer the coach of Davidson.

Davidson is always going to be a small school in a massively crowded market of Duke, UNC, NC State, Charlotte, Clemson, Wake, and another dozen small schools.
Saint Louis is always going to be surrounded by Kansas, Missouri and MVC fans.
Richmond is always going to be divided between UR & VCU fans.


If I'm looking to expand, I want to find good things that don't change:
-- infrastructure or ability to add it.
-- lack of competition for the regional markets

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:06 pm 
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It's always fun to talk Big East alignment because they have ample opportunity to expand but have not yet done so. If I'm their media partner FOX I'm all for growing and expanding the content. But seriously, the conference only has value if they have winning programs that are making deep tournament runs. Look at some of their members:

St John's-- 2 tourney appearances since 2005 (2011, 2015)
Seton Hall-- 1 tourney appearance since 2005 (2006)
Providence-- 2 tourney appearances since 2005 (2014, 2015)
DePaul-- 0 tourney appearances since 2005

In the past 10 years those four have gone dancing a collective 5 times and three of those occurrences happened after the Catholic 7 departed the deep 16 member Big East with programs like UConn, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, and Notre Dame to the much more shallow new Big East. In all of those appearances the Big East team lost their first game.

The Big East can't keep relying on Villanova, Georgetown and Marquette to carry them. Sooner or later they are going to need to invest in new programs that are successful NOW not ones leaning on their glory years decades ago.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:12 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
It's always fun to talk Big East alignment because they have ample opportunity to expand but have not yet done so. If I'm their media partner FOX I'm all for growing and expanding the content. But seriously, the conference only has value if they have winning programs that are making deep tournament runs. Look at some of their members:

St John's-- 2 tourney appearances since 2005 (2011, 2015)
Seton Hall-- 1 tourney appearance since 2005 (2006)
Providence-- 2 tourney appearances since 2005 (2014, 2015)
DePaul-- 0 tourney appearances since 2005

In the past 10 years those four have gone dancing a collective 5 times and three of those occurrences happened after the Catholic 7 departed the deep 16 member Big East with programs like UConn, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, and Notre Dame to the much more shallow new Big East. In all of those appearances the Big East team lost their first game.

The Big East can't keep relying on Villanova, Georgetown and Marquette to carry them. Sooner or later they are going to need to invest in new programs that are successful NOW not ones leaning on their glory years decades ago.



And with all due respect, that points out the flaw in logic I'm talking about.

You're right, that to be a strong conference, you need two things: #1 - Lots of good teams and #2 - teams making DEEP RUNS. That requires things like Money, Recruiting War winning things, coaches, etc. The list of teams that usually make deep runs in the NCAAs are teams like Michigan State, Duke, North Carolina, Wisconsin, etc -- teams that aren't joining them.

The Big East has more than enough good teams:

Butler had no problem trouncing the entire Horizon to make the dance all the time.
Xavier had no problem trouncing the bottom half of the A-10 to make the dance all the time.
DePaul had no problem trouncing the bottom half of Conference USA 1.0 to make the dance routinely.
St. John's, Providence and Seton Hall had no problem taking turns making the dance out of the smaller Big East 1.0 before they added Notre Dame, Louisville, Cincinnati, Marquette, etc.

If you make a conference of:
Duke, UNC, Michigan State, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Maryland, UConn, Villanova and Xavier you have 10 of the top 30 programs in the country.... and they won't get 10 bids. Three teams are finishing 8-9-10 and not having a shot at the NCAA Tournament because they have 13+ conference losses.


The Big East's "problem" isn't that DePaul, Providence, Hall and St. John's aren't good enough. It's that everyone in that league is SO FREAKING SIMILAR, and teams 4-9 are so evenly matched that the bottom third of the league gets TOO MANY SPLITS of the season series with the at-large contenders.

Here's the Big East last season:

NOVA 32-2 16-2 3-0 BET = NCAA
GTWN 21-10 12-6 1-1 BET = NCAA
BUTL 22-10 12-6 0-1 BET = NCAA
PROV 22-11 11-7 1-1 BET = NCAA
STJN 20-11 10-8 0-1 BET = NCAA
XAVR 21-13 9-9 2-1 BET = NCAA
(70-62 in Big East play)

HALL 16-15 6-12 0-1 BET
DEPL 12-20 6-12 0-1 BET
MARQ 13-19 4-14 1-1 BET
CREI 14-19 4-14 1-1 BET
(20-38 in Big East Play)

Now, let's, for the sake of argument, say that St. Bonaventure and Siena got invites to the Big East and joined for 2014-15.
Those are obviously "crazy" choices, since they "bring nothing to the table" in terms of NCAA success/deep runs.

Now, the schedule would be unbalanced, but let's ignore that for a second. Outside of the Bonnies, Siena hasn't beaten a member of their new league since at least 2002. So let's say they go 1-17 in the Big East, beating Bona at home.
Bona's better than Siena, and could win some home games against the bottom four -- not that they'd get all of them at home. (And they did have THREE top 50 RPI wins last year, including one on the road. So they're a little frisky. Let's say they go 3-15 in Big East play.

Bona 3-15
Siena 1-17

That's 4-32. The actual Big East went 90-90 against itself last season, which adds up to 94-122. That’s impossible. It has to be 108-108. So the Top 10 of the 12-team Big East would win 14 more games. Setting up a quick unbalanced schedule (Bona in the “west” and Siena in the “East,” creating fake travel partners and picking ONE cross-over to play twice)… you get new conference standings.

Nova, Prov, GT, Butler would basically be replacing replacing wins with wins.
But Xavier, St. John’s, Hall, Marquette are replacing 1-3 with 3-1 or 2-2.

You also get a bigger conference tournament, 5 vs 12, 6 vs 11 get extra wins. Seton Hall and Marquette are the big winner because Hall lost six games to Butler, Xavier, DePaul, Marquette and Creighton; And Marquette lost six to SJU, PROV, GT, Hall. Instead they get three wins over Siena/Bona.

The conference’s total SOS would go down slightly, because Siena and Bona have bad overall records. But that’s assuming the same OOC schedule (I added a win for Bona instead of losing at Siena; and I added two OOC wins to Siena for losing two MAAC conference games). But one extra win in this format negates the loss.

The new Big East would have been this:

NOVA 29-2 16-2 3-0 BET = NCAA (#8 RPI, -6
GTWN 22-9 13-5 1-1 BET = NCAA (#16 RPI, +9)
BUTL 23-9 13-5 0-1 BET = NCAA (#31 RPI, NC)
PROV 23-10 12-6 1-1 BET = NCAA (#22 RPI, NC)
STJN 22-10 11-7 1-1 BET = NCAA (#36 RPI, +8)
XAVR 24-11 11-7 3-1 BET = NCAA (#33 RPI, -4)
HALL 20-12 9-9 1-1 BET = NCAA/Bubble (#38 RPI, +47)
MARQ 18-13 9-9 1-1 BET = NIT (#77 RPI, +70)

CREI 14-18 5-13 0-1 BET (#124 RPI, +27)
DEPL 12-20 5-13 0-1 BET (#192 RPI, +5)
BONA 12-17 3-15 0-1 BET (#165 RPI)
SIENA 9-21 1-17 0-1 BET (#172 RPI)


And again, that’s with Bona/Siena’s OOC schedules from the A-10/MAAC. With money to play with and knowing their Big East slate awaits, they could schedule the weakest OOC imaginable and try and go 12-0 / 11-1 OOC.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:34 pm 
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Ok. I get where you are going with this. Rather than adding teams that will be competive in conference play and go to the tournament you want conference cellar dwellers who can hold their own OOC in order to elevate current Big East teams that are on the bubble into the field of 68. St John's and Providence have both seem a rise since the end of the 16-team era so it's a sound strategy that if you take away the top the middle rises. If that's the strategy then I think their best bet would be to aim for markets that bring value but won't challenge for titles? Duquesne and St Louis would fit that bill and they would add two top 35 markets to the league. St Louis has had some good years but my guess is that they'd be middling in the Big East. Duquesne could serve as the doormat of the East.

I know you like to stump for your alma mater but wouldn't you think that market value also has to play a part in this process especially if schools in both decent markets and tiny markets fit the criteria?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:18 am 
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fighting muskie wrote:
Ok. I get where you are going with this. Rather than adding teams that will be competive in conference play and go to the tournament you want conference cellar dwellers who can hold their own OOC in order to elevate current Big East teams that are on the bubble into the field of 68. St John's and Providence have both seem a rise since the end of the 16-team era so it's a sound strategy that if you take away the top the middle rises. If that's the strategy then I think their best bet would be to aim for markets that bring value but won't challenge for titles? Duquesne and St Louis would fit that bill and they would add two top 35 markets to the league. St Louis has had some good years but my guess is that they'd be middling in the Big East. Duquesne could serve as the doormat of the East.

I know you like to stump for your alma mater but wouldn't you think that market value also has to play a part in this process especially if schools in both decent markets and tiny markets fit the criteria?


Yes, you're getting it... Teams 7-10 of the Big East are basically good enough to go dancing. They just have bad seasons ADMINISTRATIVELY. That's what really separates most teams in the 35-100 range of the RPI anyway (Unless you're 2015 UCLA and still get invited).

Now, the additions have to pull their weight OOC. Which getting the Big East promotion would help out with... and getting a $5 million TV check would help IMMENSELY.

I'm not stumping for Siena. Siena was an example of what a doormat would do for the league. For the most part positive, but not totally positive. Bona is good enough to be a total help to the BE like they are to the A-10. They're a terrible road team, good at home but who isn't.


Now, as for the market issue...

Saint Louis, Davidson, Bona, and Duquesne are ALL SMALL PROGRAMS. They don’t have huge alumni bases, they don’t have massive TV ratings. People talk about TV markets as if just being in a market means you deliver it. Fordham doesn’t DELIVER the NYC market for the A-10, they just happen to be there. Ditto Columbia, Manhattan, Iona, FDU, Wagner, LIU, etc. It’s why no one mentions Detroit for the Big East, either.


But that’s actually where Bonaventure CAN WIN over the other options for Big East #12. Syracuse & St. John’s are both in branding wars over “New York’s College Team.” But the area WEST of Syracuse’s market — outside the 315… the 716 and 585. That area has Niagara, Canisius, Buffalo and St. Bonaventure.

Buffalo has been to the NCAA Tournament ONCE EVER (last season and lost their coach). They’re letting FBS dictate their decisions.
Niagara (First Four and 14 seed since 1971) and Canisius (one total bid since 1957) are in the MAAC.
Rochester (the #52 market in the US) has no Division I teams.

St. Bonaventure is the best team of the four. In the best conference NOW. They play in Rochester and Buffalo (when they play Niagara/Canisius/UB, it’s usually in the NHL arena). They play a game in Rochester when the students are on break.

In the Big East, St. Bonaventure would be that region’s team. And that region has 2.6 million residents. That’s just as big as, or bigger than:

Charlotte (Where Davidson exists, but are behind UNC, Duke, NC State, Wake and Charlotte, plus is also divided among UNCG, UNCG, Western Carolina, Clemson, South Carolina, Elon, Gardner-Webb and a few other half dozen schools I’m forgetting).

Saint Louis (where SLU is surrounded by KU, Missouri and Illini fans, plus fans of MVC teams and SIU-E)

Richmond (where UR/VCU are the home teams, but Virginia and Virginia Tech and another dozen small schools have alumni)

Pittsburgh (where Duquesne is second or third fiddle behind Pitt and Penn State, and you also have Robert Morris, not counting the St Francis Red Flash).

Bonaventure’s home market is tiny compared to those home markets. But their alums don’t live in Olean. They live in Buffalo, Rochester, New York City, Syracuse, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, etc. They go to road games all the time. The A-10 board I frequent had new Davidson fans saying “I’d never heard of St. Bonaventure until we joined the conference… how the hell do they have THAT many fans… in OUR Arena?” In 2000, we drowned out Kentucky fans. In the A-10 tournament, other coaches are pissed they have a “road game” at the Barclays Center. I went to school at Bona’s with 2,000 people and I know ONE GUY who lives in Olean.

Judging the Bonaventure market by the size of Olean is crazy.

The upside of every other potential acquisition for the Big East is not as big as Bonaventure. They can find a school that exists in a market with more people. But that school won’t get media coverage like Bonas. Not to mention the Journalism/Communications school at Bonas makes them bigger than their actual size. You may think the only three Bona grads you’ve ever known existed are Bob Lanier, Orlando Magic PF Andrew Nicholson, and me. But if the Big East invited St. Bonaventure, you’d see stories about the Big East all over the damned place and wonder “Why are THEY writing about the Big East? Oh, one of the biggest NBA writers on the planet is a Bona grad? The New York Post senior sports writer is a Bona grad? 75% of the Buffalo and Rochester sports media are Bona grads?”

Conference realignment is a two-way street. It’s not just what a school brings to the conference, it’s what a school can do within a conference. The Big East would do a lot for St. Louis, Duquesne, Davidson or Richmond.

St. Bonaventure, with the Big East brand, would bring more to the Big East than they appear to bring with the A-10 brand attached, and it's more than those other candidates would.


(And that's not going "head-to-head" on Dayton. The Big East should add Dayton and St. Bonaventure, and enjoy their first eight-bid season)

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:48 pm 
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I think the Big East brand name would be a huge boost to any school fortunate enough to be extended an invitation. I agree that a broad alumni net can extend the overall footprint of a school beyond their immediate media market. I also think conditions could make what was once a solid addition into a dead weight member you can't shake. Look at the A-10. Davidson seems like an excellent expansion now while they are winning; they also keep that Charlotte market in the A-10's footprint after the departure of UNC-Charlotte but what happens when the winning stops? You have a geographic outlier with a tiny enrollment/alumni population in an incredibly crowded market. Or a member like Fordham who was brought in for a tv market but they have been in cellar during their whole A-10 tenure. Concerns like these are part of the reason why I think the New Big East was so conservative and selective regarding who they invited. I also think that there is sentiment among their membership that Notre Dame's relationship with the ACC may not be permanent and they wanted to allow themselves the flexibility to bring the Irish in at a later date. Ultimately I think that the Big East could easily accommodate two more embers and some might even say 4, and the result would be more tournament berths for the league as a whole. I think markets have to play into that decision and my short list is still St Louis, Dayton, and Duquesne. I just see St Bonaventure as being to small for their alumni net to make an impact on the television contract as far as attracting tv viewers. Those schools all have enrollments over 10,000 and St Louis is at 16,500 compared to Bonaventure's 2,400.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:25 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
I think the Big East brand name would be a huge boost to any school fortunate enough to be extended an invitation. I agree that a broad alumni net can extend the overall footprint of a school beyond their immediate media market. I also think conditions could make what was once a solid addition into a dead weight member you can't shake. Look at the A-10. Davidson seems like an excellent expansion now while they are winning; they also keep that Charlotte market in the A-10's footprint after the departure of UNC-Charlotte but what happens when the winning stops? You have a geographic outlier with a tiny enrollment/alumni population in an incredibly crowded market. Or a member like Fordham who was brought in for a tv market but they have been in cellar during their whole A-10 tenure. Concerns like these are part of the reason why I think the New Big East was so conservative and selective regarding who they invited. I also think that there is sentiment among their membership that Notre Dame's relationship with the ACC may not be permanent and they wanted to allow themselves the flexibility to bring the Irish in at a later date. Ultimately I think that the Big East could easily accommodate two more embers and some might even say 4, and the result would be more tournament berths for the league as a whole. I think markets have to play into that decision and my short list is still St Louis, Dayton, and Duquesne. I just see St Bonaventure as being to small for their alumni net to make an impact on the television contract as far as attracting tv viewers. Those schools all have enrollments over 10,000 and St Louis is at 16,500 compared to Bonaventure's 2,400.


I'm not worried about Davidson in the Atlantic 10. You said "what happens when the winning stops?" for Davidson, but that's true of anyone, really: What happens to Xavier when the winning stops? At some point you take a look at a program that's been winning for 30 years and say "that's who they are."

Why on earth would the winning stop at Xavier? At Davidson? At Dayton?

Who are these schools really? Dayton's been pretty consistent for 20 years: They beat the teams from bad conferences, they beat the teams from middle conferences most years, they take out some big boys when they're good. They're a Big East program playing in the A-10.
Davidson's always beat the the little guys. And you beat the little guys, you're a contributing member.
St. Bonaventure - aside from their lost years after the VBK debacle - has been doing the same for a couple decades now, too. With occasional overachievement.

Davidson and Bonaventure are only going to hurt their conference if their conference gets/appears weak and they start trying to bite off more than they can chew in OOC scheduling with a John Chaney 90s-style OOC slate. But they all learned from the A-10's scheduling model mistake of the mid-2000s that formula doesn't work at all.


And as for the market thing, I again point out the flaw in looking at just the size of the market. It's the competition.

Fordham doesn't deliver New York because (a) they suck and (b) even if they're good, St. John's is better and they're one of a dozen small schools in the market.
LaSalle doesn't deliver Philly because (a) they usually suck and (b) even if they're good, Villanova is better and there's four other schools too.
Saint Louis doesn't deliver St. Louis because (a) they usually suck and (b) even if they're good, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Illinois are better and there's all the MVC schools in the area as well.
Davidson doesn't deliver Charlotte because (a) they play at a lower level and (b) even though they're good at it, Duke, UNC, Wake, NC State are all better at a higher level and there's all the other schools in the area as well.

Buffalo doesn't deliver Buffalo because they suck.
Niagara doesn't deliver Buffalo because they suck.
Canisius doesn't deliver Buffalo because they suck.
RIT/UofR doesn't deliver Rochester because they aren't Division I

St. Bonaventure could be the team everyone pays attention to in those two markets and all the space in between, which makes their market 2.6 million people. The same size as the St. Louis market the Billikens won't carry.

Who's most likely to win their market?
St. Bona vs Canisius/Niagara/Buffalo
Davidson vs Duke/UNC/Charlotte/et al
SLU vs KU/MU/lllinois/et al
Richmond vs VCU/UVA/VT/et al?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:04 pm 
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I think, when it comes to comparing certain markets, it's a matter of where that market is in terms of mobility. The upside of someone like St. Bonaventure might be that the region is seeing population growth, so while it doesn't situate or command any specific market, or is this massive institution, if the region is considerable, stable, or growing/young, it might not matter if the program isn't consistent or whatever. You take a school like that, or Duquesne, because, veteran D1 program or no, its situation is stable and the ceiling is higher than other urban private schools. Industry comes and goes in that part of NY...with it is St. Bonaventure's ceiling, imo. I'd hate to lose them in the A10.

Where it concerns the Big East, though, and this rings abundantly clear when they take on Liberty as an associate member...apparently they are, now, an exclusive club of private schools. Let that be their hurdle moving forward...plenty of great programs could make that conference even better than it is right now (which is killing it in men's basketball this non-conference season alone), if they'd get their noses out of the air.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:26 pm 
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For me, it's less about the population growth, but more about the status of schools in the region.

Duquesne can possibly get better and "bigger" in the Pittsburgh market, Davidson can possibly get better and "bigger" in the Charlotte market, Saint Louis can possibly get better and "bigger" in the St Louis market. But they can't do is make the ACC/SEC/Big Ten/Big XII schools in those markets SMALLER.


It's really more like gang warfare than anything else. Having an affiliate gang in a city doesn't give you control, the entire business, and all the revenue from that city. If there's two big gangs evenly matched, the national affiliation can help turn the tide and help one side win.

But in Charlotte, St. Louis and Pittsburgh, you've got big national gangs like The Bloods (ACC/SEC) & Crips (Big Ten/Big XII) battling for control. Duquesne, SLU and Davidson are tiny little local gang who run a few corners in a neutral zone the big guys don't want to go to war over. Backing them doesn't give the Big East family control of the market. Competing for that market might actually drain their resources.

St. Bonaventure is a tiny local gang that only runs a few corners. But Western New York isn't run by anyone bigger. There's four small gangs, three of them in Buffalo. The Big East backing Bonaventure would basically seize control of Western New York, because the other little guys are no match for the Big East syndicate. And there's just as many people in Buffalo, Rochester and the rest of Western New York as there are in Charlotte, Saint Louis or Pittsburgh... only no bloody fight they'd surely lose.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:47 pm 
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As if to back up my point, the lead story on the Buffalo News' college sports webpage is the...

St. Bonaventure WOMEN'S BASKETBALL TEAM.


The Bona women are getting more coverage in Buffalo than the UB, Canisius and Niagara men.
The Bona men have TWO of the top 10 stories on that site: Beating UMass, and "It's time for the A-10 to take the Bonnies seriously as a contender" story. Tomorrow, there will probably be one on the men getting votes in the AP poll.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:29 am 
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FoxSports article with comments from Big East Commish regarding "possible" future league expansion at http://www.foxsports.com/college-basket ... ats-022516" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:30 pm 
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Yup, she dumb.


I kinda expect Marquette's AD to wise-up and lead the charge on expansion. They have a talented team, but the Big East format crushes the chances of teams 6-7-8-9.

Marquette is 111 in the RPI. Florida is 52. Marquette has a better NCAA resume than Florida does: 4 Top 60 wins to Florida's 2.

The reason Marquette's headed to the NIT and & Florida’s on the bubble is:

- Florida played 3 games vs NCAA locks in the SEC
- Marquette played 8 games vs NCAA locks in the Big East

- Florida played 3 games vs NCAA bubble teams in the SEC
- Marquette played 2 games vs NCAA bubble teams in the Big East

- Florida played 6 games vs teams 6-9 (at-large board) in the SEC
- Marquette played 6 games vs teams 6-9 (at large board) in the Big East)

- Florida played 6 games vs teams 10-14 in the SEC
- Marquette played 2 games vs team 10 in the Big East


If the Big East had added St. Bona, Belmont and Duquesne to bridge the gap between the West & East...

Belmont & Duquesne would get smoked (2-34 in BE play).
Bona would have held their own.
DePaul & St. John's would have a couple more wins

Bona and the Top 8 of the Big East would be a combined 105-54 in Big East play (11-7 AVG) instead of 86-58 (10-8).

Bona, Marquette, Creighton would easily get into the NCAA tournament, with Georgetown's OOC making them an NIT team instead of post-season ineligible at 14-17.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:48 am 
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SLU (St. Louis) fired their coach today, immediately after getting the boot in the A-10 tourney.

He wasn't a bad coach (actually won the A-10 with Majerus's players), but he didn't have Majerus's skill in recruiting.

We'll see who they bring in....


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:19 pm 
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Article out of Wichita(previously posted in another thread) with comments from Creighton AD who says that the Big East will be discussing "possible" league expansion at their "May" meetings.He also says that he believes that WSU and Gonzaga would make good conference members.Link at http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wi ... 05147.html


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:20 pm 
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Well, 12 would be better than 10 for their NCAA bids.

But they don't NEED to add more power to the league. The league is plenty strong enough. Adding Wichita State and Gonzaga is going to take 10-12 NCAA programs and send 3-6 to the NIT or worse by attrition.


They should go to 13 instead of 12 anyway. (I'd go Dayton, St. Bona, Belmont and stay private schools). But if they want to open it up to publics.. then VCU, Bona, Belmont makes waaaaaaaay more sense. I would understand if Belmont scares them, then go Saint Louis instead. But they don't need power.

They need to take a decent sized market with the least competition and GROW schools into Big East schools. And Bonaventure is perfect because they could deliver a Western New York area that includes the 50 and 51 markets and 2.6 million people (Same size as Saint Louis)

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