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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:22 pm 
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This is from Commish Stern on a true minor league for NBA teams. Will this take away alot of talent from college? And do you think its a good idea?


Chad Ford: Hey everyone, lots going on today. The playoff race is red hot, the McDonald's game last night highlighted the best young American talent and I spent some time with David Stern yesterday talking about age limits and turning the NBDL into a real minor league. Let's roll.

Ryan: (Syracuse, NY): I hope to God that interview with Stern wasn't some April Fool's prank. I'm foaming at the mouth about the NBDL possibilities. Seeing international talents combined with some talented domestic kids sounds unreal. How realistic do you think this NBDL route is compared to the proposed age limit?

Chad Ford: It wasn't a prank. It sounds, from his comments, like the league has been mulling this for a few months as an alternative to an age limit. I can tell you this, from the GMs who have called me today, there is a lot of support on that end. Still waiting for the unions response. That will be the biggest obstacle. They'll want assurances that veterans won't be demoted to the minors and that young kids won't be stuck there forever.


Rob, Sioux Falls, SD: Loved your interview with Stern! Realistically, how soon will or could a minor league system be implemented? How soon until my beloved Cavs are shipping down their draft picks for seasoning?

Chad Ford: It has to be collectively bargained. That probably means the 2005-06 season at the earliest. Stern commented that they'd like to expand the NBDL to as many as 15 teams. I think it would take a little while to get it there.

DC: Chad, Would each NBA team have its own minor league team, or would they be sharing teams?

Chad Ford: If the league does anything, it will be an extension of the NBDL. I don't think teams would own the teams. Instead the league would run it the same way it does now. The only difference is that two or three NBA teams would feed into one designated team.


Rob (Portland, OR): If the NBA does develop a real minor league system, do you think that High School kids will end uip there for a few years? What do you think the impact on college basketball will be?

T.J. (Tucson, AZ): Hey Chad, do you think because of the creation of a minor league system in the NBA, that they will increase the number of rounds in the draft?

Chad Ford: I think more young kids will end up there, obviously that's the point. As far as the draft goes, I think teams would like the number of rounds to increase, but again, that would have to bargained.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:36 pm 
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Unlike college baseball (sadly), NCAA basketball is a media sport. It makes money, though not as much as football. It has exposure and glamour. The NCAA Tourney is a major media event and makes tons of dough for everyone from schools to networks to bookies. I don't think this will deminish college roundball from a media point of view. Be honest, who cares about minor league sports other than the community (and sometimes region) a team is in? However, I do imagine for some kids, it will be hard to turn down a paycheck. The REAL PROBLEM is that I think cheating in college basketball will SKYROCKET to try to keep players with little real interest in education from opting for the paycheck rather than education.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 9:17 pm 
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if they have little real interest in education, then they shouldnt be in school. that is part of the problem, kids who are there that dont really want to be there; they are using it as a stepping stone. i would definately be in favor of this because it will help weed out those who only want money, and lets face it, we will still watch our favorite schools no matter who is playing on the team.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:39 am 
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This is my third attempt here, as I'm trying to avoid this becoming a rant. Please bear with. Somewhere in my rambled thoughts are dots that need connecting.

- The NBA needs (desperately) a farm system that can help players mature and develop their overall game. Coaches, too.

- Players need a better support system (read: a reason and motivation) to help them move more gradually from high school to the pro level. The steeper that climb, the harder the fall for those who don't make the cut and the less incentive for players to refine their craft while working their way up.

- That financial gap between unknown amatuer and instant millionaire celebrity is so wide that we're not doing right by these kids. Basically, we're raising young men to gamble their future on the "pro-sports" lottery.

- Minor leagues will compete with colleges for select players, attention and $. It may not spell a death knell for the college game, but they are by nature competing products. For name players, coaches, media, etc.

- Football is relatively immune to this for now because of the scale required by the sport: Lots of people, equipment, $ demand a lot of work to make a return. The same cannot be said of basketball. Because of this there is, IMO, little incentive for the NBA to preserve the college game. College and pro football compliment each other, rarely competing for air time, whereas college and pro basketball are often competing on many levels, with many people (myself included) loving one and hating the other. I couldn't tell you the standings in the NBA right now, and grow frustrated when Sportcenter begins with something other than NCAA tournament news. Not what David Stern wants to hear during the chase for NBA playoff spots.

- Colleges cannot simply begin paying athletes: There's too many to make it work and the equity issues over who gets what would be overwhelming. (I think)

- I've mentioned this before and I keep coming back to it, for better or for worse. Two things come to mind as steps in the right direction:

1) Some type of direct support from professional sports leagues to NCAA programs. Other industries sponsor research and internships, why can't pro sports? If the NBA were to provide funds directly for basketball players, there might be enough money to provide payments without incurring the equity issue of needing to pay the lacrosse and volleyball team, too. Maybe athletic departments evolve into/include acadamies wherein student athletes take on more of an internship status. Such could then be applied for any pro sport wishing to sponsor these players at the college level.

2) Professional athletics should be a bonafide major. Sports marketing is in some schools, as well as sports heatlh, journalism and communications. Why not pro sports in general? In lieu of an age limimt I'd love to see pro sports require at least a certificate in... pro sports! Something that teaches the basics of money management, health, dealing with agents, etc. Seems to me there's enough basic stuff that every athlete should know, and that most schools do/should teach to concoct a certified degree of some kind.


I'll stop now. Thanks for the vent.


Last edited by gunnerfan on Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:05 am 

I thought the NBDL was a minor league system, only that any player from the NBDL can be called up from any NBA team, instead of 4 NBA teams sharing 1 NBDL team. I think it would be a great idea to modify the NBDL a little...Have a NBDL Draft 2 or 3 weeks after the NBA Draft, and have the NBDL draft players from the pool of players not picked for the NBA Draft...Add 4 teams for a 10 team league...and let it be that...

I think minor leagues are great for Professional Sports...teams in Pro Leagues get a pool of players from the D-Leagues that are gaining experience in games...there should be more developmental leagues and minor leagues, especially in Baskteball, and Football.

A Spring Football League really needs to be formed. Either that or bring the NFL Europe to America...Spread 6 to 10 teams throughout the Southern part of the US, and BAMM!! You'll have an instant winner...because
people in the South Love Football!!!

Raleigh, NC
Birmingham, AL
Orlando, FL
Memphis, TN
Tulsa, OK
San Antonio, TX

I think these 6 cities would be perfect for NFL Europe Teams to move to...Metro Populations and Large Fan Bases...Hold the whole season from Mid-February to Mid-May, and let the money roll in!! Everyone plays each other twice with home and home games. It'll be fun!! Come on guys! Work with me!


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:57 pm 
Bring NFL Europe to the U.S.? That's funny because...the Raleigh-Durham Skyhawks of [NFL Europe] moved to Columbus, Ohio after one season. And the Orlando Thunder, Birmingham Fire, and San Antonio Texans are also no longer members.

From what I've read (The League: The Rise and Decline of the NFL, 1986, good book if you have the time) Memphis had a very good chance to be awarded one of the NFL franchises in the 1976 expansion (Seattle and Tampa Bay), but the World Football League, which featured a Memphis franchise (and Csonka, Kiick, and Warfield) was crying bloody murder about suing the NFL if it "invaded" one of "their" markets, and the NFL was unwilling to chance such a proposition when there was no reason to. After showing by the Southmen, the Showboats (USFL), and MadDogs (CFL), and the Pharaohs (AFL), Memphis got blindsided by a Bud Adams agreement with Nashville, and half-hearted attempts at a more "regional" following short-circuited when the Oilers played just one season at the Liberty Bowl instead of the original two.

Don't know what to say about Tulsa, other than the one season of the Oklahoma Outlaws featured eventual Super Bowl MVP Doug Williams at QB (Williams won it over deadbeat dad Timmy Smith, right?).

When is Red McCombs just going to move the Vikings to San Antonio already? At least the Suncoast Dome in Saint Petersburg eventually landed the Lightning and later the Devil Rays. The Alamodome (granted, serving as host to this year's Final Four) lost the Spurs, and hosts the Alamo Bowl.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 2:48 pm 
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Quote:

I thought the NBDL was a minor league system, only that any player from the NBDL can be called up from any NBA team, instead of 4 NBA teams sharing 1 NBDL team. I think it would be a great idea to modify the NBDL a little...Have a NBDL Draft 2 or 3 weeks after the NBA Draft, and have the NBDL draft players from the pool of players not picked for the NBA Draft...Add 4 teams for a 10 team league...and let it be that...

I think minor leagues are great for Professional Sports...teams in Pro Leagues get a pool of players from the D-Leagues that are gaining experience in games...there should be more developmental leagues and minor leagues, especially in Baskteball, and Football.

A Spring Football League really needs to be formed. Either that or bring the NFL Europe to America...Spread 6 to 10 teams throughout the Southern part of the US, and BAMM!! You'll have an instant winner...because
people in the South Love Football!!!

Raleigh, NC
Birmingham, AL
Orlando, FL
Memphis, TN
Tulsa, OK
San Antonio, TX

I think these 6 cities would be perfect for NFL Europe Teams to move to...Metro Populations and Large Fan Bases...Hold the whole season from Mid-February to Mid-May, and let the money roll in!! Everyone plays each other twice with home and home games. It'll be fun!! Come on guys! Work with me!


Bring Back the USFL for football. I loved that league!!! ;D

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 2:57 pm 
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Quote:
This is my third attempt here, as I'm trying to avoid this becoming a rant. Please bear with. Somewhere in my rambled thoughts are dots that need connecting.

- The NBA needs (desperately) a farm system that can help players mature and develop their overall game. Coaches, too.

- Players need a better support system (read: a reason and motivation) to help them move more gradually from high school to the pro level. The steeper that climb, the harder the fall for those who don't make the cut and the less incentive for players to refine their craft while working their way up.

- That financial gap between unknown amatuer and instant millionaire celebrity is so wide that we're not doing right by these kids. Basically, we're raising young men to gamble their future on the "pro-sports" lottery.

- Minor leagues will compete with colleges for select players, attention and $. It may not spell a death knell for the college game, but they are by nature competing products. For name players, coaches, media, etc.

- Football is relatively immune to this for now because of the scale required by the sport: Lots of people, equipment, $ demand a lot of work to make a return. The same cannot be said of basketball. Because of this there is, IMO, little incentive for the NBA to preserve the college game. College and pro football compliment each other, rarely competing for air time, whereas college and pro basketball are often competing on many levels, with many people (myself included) loving one and hating the other. I couldn't tell you the standings in the NBA right now, and grow frustrated when Sportcenter begins with something other than NCAA tournament news. Not what David Stern wants to hear during the chase for NBA playoff spots.

- Colleges cannot simply begin paying athletes: There's too many to make it work and the equity issues over who gets what would be overwhelming. (I think)

- I've mentioned this before and I keep coming back to it, for better or for worse. Two things come to mind as steps in the right direction:

1) Some type of direct support from professional sports leagues to NCAA programs. Other industries sponsor research and internships, why can't pro sports? If the NBA were to provide funds directly for basketball players, there might be enough money to provide payments without incurring the equity issue of needing to pay the lacrosse and volleyball team, too. Maybe athletic departments evolve into/include acadamies wherein student athletes take on more of an internship status. Such could then be applied for any pro sport wishing to sponsor these players at the college level.

2) Professional athletics should be a bonafide major. Sports marketing is in some schools, as well as sports heatlh, journalism and communications. Why not pro sports in general? In lieu of an age limimt I'd love to see pro sports require at least a certificate in... pro sports! Something that teaches the basics of money management, health, dealing with agents, etc. Seems to me there's enough basic stuff that every athlete should know, and that most schools do/should teach to concoct a certified degree of some kind.


I'll stop now. Thanks for the vent.


I agree I think they should have a degree in sports mangement that way the players can understand whats ahead in life. Especially in investments.

There is alot of cities that need a pro basketball team pittsburgh and san diego come to mind if there are more feel free to post cities that could have a team.

3rd as for paying college aths. no way this will dilute the sport and make the big 6 a cartel and push most leagues back down to D2. But in saying this at least let these kids get a job outside of campus. But there will be some alumni and boosters that will pay these players more for less service. In saying that the universities will have to weed out those boosters.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:20 pm 
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with the nbdl expanding to ten teams:
asheville
austin
columbus, ga
fayetteville
florida (ft. myers)
fort worth
huntsville
roanoke
tulsa

it is hopefully on the road to become a minor league.

what does the future hold for many of these teams and what are future prospects for expansion. i think the next waves of expansion will include to the west to such cities as san diego and las vegas (tacoma, fresno, and tucson are other options), and some midwestern expansion for louisville, nashville, omaha, kansas city and or st. louis, and columbus, toldeo and or cincinnati, . more northeastern teams would probably be a good idea too with pittsburgh, baltimore, syracuse, and buffalo all being good options.

i would move roanoke to either richmond or norfolk and asheville to raleigh/durham. i also would move ft. worth so they are not right on top of dallas, maybe to el paso or even arkansas, and the ft. myers team to a more promenent city within the state such as jacksonville or tampa.

the only problem with the nbdl being a true minor league is competition w/ college teams for attendance, but i would love to see a full 30 team nbdl being marketed as a triple a type league with each nba team having an affiliate preferbly near their home base.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:06 am 
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First off, the Arkansas franchise that competed in the ABA this year is rumored to be pulling out. The rumor seems to be entry into NBDL. There are other options, mind you. Apparently, drawing over 5,000 fans a game, they were runaway attendance leaders in the ABA (and they supposedly still lost money).

Roanoke is one of the "better" draws in the NBDL (unless they lie worse than Charleston did before they moved to Fort Myers). My point is that a league like this generally doesn't belong in the larger markets... that the NBDL at least had the concept of the right-size markets done well. The problem- it shouldn't be the South.

If you look at the CBA, USBL, and assorted others, the league you want is in a line from the Dakotas down through at least Kansas, then maybe veering east into Arkansas. Maybe a Northwest extension... maybe not. Less competition with pro teams is better. Major markets are worse.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:14 pm 
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im just trying to think along the lines of establishing the nbdl as a form of triple a basketball. many of the cities i mentioned, such as fresno, las vegas, buffalo, and nashville, are home to triple a baseball teams. if they can support triple a baseball why not triple a basketball. i can see the reasons why major markets may not work, but if marketed right the nba could cover markets they are unable to expand to.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:13 am 
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The NBA released the official affiliations for players to the NBDL:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-nba-nbadl&prov=ap&type=lgns



The team assignments include:

-- Fayetteville: Charlotte Bobcats, New York Knicks, Detroit Pistons.

-- Austin: Denver Nuggets, Spurs, Houston Rockets, Los Angeles Clippers.

-- Fort Worth: Golden State Warriors, Los Angeles Lakers, Mavericks, Portland Trail Blazers.

-- Arkansas: Atlanta Hawks, Cleveland Cavaliers, Memphis Grizzlies, Raptors.

-- Florida: Heat, Magic, Celtics, Timberwolves.

-- Tulsa: New Orleans Hornets, Indiana Pacers, Milwaukee Bucks, Chicago Bulls.

-- Albuquerque: Jazz, Phoenix Suns, Sacramento Kings, Seattle SuperSonics.

-- Roanoke: New Jersey Nets, Philadelphia 76ers, Washington Wizards.




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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:42 am 
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Now that we have official affiliations for players, perhaps it's time the NBA starts to serious look at working the CBA into the fold.

The CBA was bought by Isiah Thomas some time ago with his goal being to turn the league into a minor league for the NBA. That dream ended as Thomas ruined the league and eventually had to sell it. The buyer? The NBA Players Association. The NBAPA looked at the CBA as a potential home should there be collective bargaining agreement troubles, so that the players would have an alternative league to play in, a league they own.

The NBAPA might not want to give up control of the CBA, but it could come to an agreement with the NBA for the league to be partially merged with the NBDL to form a 16 team league. The agreement would have to allow the CBA teams to operate seperately regarding revenues, getting paid a fee for televised games, etc.


It's a stretch, but here's what the league would look like:

* = CBA Team


EAST:

* Albany Patroons: New York Knicks, Boston Celtics

Roanoke: New Jersey Nets, Philadelphia 76ers

Fayetteville: Charlotte Bobcats, Washington Wizards

Florida: Miami Heat, Orlando Magic

* Dakota Wizards: Minnesota Timberwolves

* Gary Steelheads: Indiana Pacers, Cleveland Cavaliers

* Michigan Mayhem: Detroit Pistons, Toronto Raptors

* Rockford Lightning: Milwaukee Bucks, Chicago Bulls


WEST:

* Sioux Falls Skyforce: Denver Nuggets, Golden State Warriors

* Idaho Stampede: Sacramento Kings, Utah Jazz

* Yakama Sun Kings: Seattle SuperSonics, Portland Trail Blazers

Albuquerque: Los Angeles Lakers, Phoenix Suns

Tulsa: New Orleans Hornets

Austin: Spurs, Houston Rockets

Fort Worth: Los Angeles Clippers, Dallas Mavericks,

Arkansas: Memphis Grizzlies, Atlanta Hawks



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:34 pm 
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Problem 1: This will almost certainly be the last year for Yakama.

The Yakama tribe errrr, check that, someone now formerly affiliated with the Yakama tribe made a deal to purchase the Sun Kings from the former owners. Crap deal, the Nation tried to cancel it (and thus fold the Sun Kings), but they determined that it would cost more money to fold them now than it would to play. They'll change the name from Yakima to Yakama and probably not do much with it. The attendance data for 04-05 showed an improvement from the previous year, but you know what they say about statistics.


Problem #1B: If they're gone, so's Idaho by my reckoning. The Stampede are moving back into Boise (out of "suburban" Nampa), where the team drew awful during the year Isiah Thomas ran this show into the ground.

Problem #2: Gary almost croaked. I don't really see Michigan (based in Muskegon) surviving past this season. Gary got a public subsidy to survive, but public scrutiny will come with it this time.

Having said that, their numbers were a heck of a lot BETTER than the NBDL teams. I'm really curious to see if the Texas/"Southwest" foray bears fruit. Minor league basketball has always been something of a tough sell. Only difference might be that the NBA doesn't mind taking a loss on their baby, and they have money to burn.

One more thing- spread-out divisions are out of the question IMO. Try pricing a road trip to Bismarck or Yakima. Better yet, try to expand in sensible geographic divisions and work from there... or place reserve teams in current or outlying arenas in the home markets. Unbalanced divisions are better than splitting up Sioux Falls and Dakota (two best draws in the CBA).


Last edited by pounder on Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:12 pm 
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Just some updates to fuel the speculation on this thread:

From the NBA:


2006-07 NBA DEVELOPMENT LEAGUE TEAM AFFILIATIONS

Albuquerque Thunderbirds
Cleveland Cavaliers
Indiana Pacers
Phoenix Suns

Anaheim Arsenal
Los Angeles Clippers
Portland Trail Blazers
Orlando Magic

Arkansas RimRockers
Atlanta Hawks
Memphis Grizzlies
Miami Heat

Austin Toros
Boston Celtics
Houston Rockets
San Antonio Spurs

Bakersfield Jam
Golden State Warriors
Sacramento Kings

Colorado 14ers
Denver Nuggets
New Jersey Nets
Toronto Raptors

Dakota Wizards
Chicago Bulls
Washington Wizards

Idaho Stampede
Seattle SuperSonics
Utah Jazz

Fort Worth Flyers
Charlotte Bobcats
Dallas Mavericks
Philadelphia 76ers

Los Angeles
Los Angeles Lakers

Sioux Falls Skyforce
Detroit Pistons
Minnesota Timberwolves

Tulsa 66ers
Milwaukee Bucks
New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets
New York Knicks

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