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 Post subject: baseball realignment
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 5:55 am 
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Quite good, actually, though I might make one change: Exchange Portland and San Diego, this way the northwest has both leagues much like NY, Chicago, LA and DC.

And while I can't resolve it off the top of my head, I noticed that basically the southeast becomes NL territory while the upper midwest becomes AL territory. Good? Bad?


Gunnerfan i like the way its setup in 4 divisions means more competition.

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 Post subject: baseball realignment
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 5:56 am 
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Since the other 2 major pro sports (as well as hockey ;D ) were covered, I thought that baseball needed a thread too.

I know the market isn't there right now, but if there ever is a salary cap and meaningful revenue sharing, I think that the league should expand to 32 teams. As a tradtionalist, I would like 4 divisions of 8 but I will except 8 divisions of 4 and eliminating the wild card.

My proposed divisions:

NL East: Mets, Phillies, Pirates, Reds
NL South: Braves, Expos (now in DC), Marlins, Charlotte (expansion team)
NL Central: Cubs, Cardinals, Astros, Rockies
NL West: Dodgers, Giants, Padres, Diamondbacks

AL East: Yankees, Red Sox, Orioles, Devil Rays
AL Central: Indians, Tigers, Brewers (back to the AL), Blue Jays
AL Midwest: Royals, Twins, Rangers, White Sox
AL West: Angels, Mariners, A's, Portland (expansion)

The schedule would consist of :
18 games against each division rival: 54 games
8 games against all other league teams: 96 games
3 games against a division in the other league: 12 games

This keeps the 162 game schedule in tact.

I am interested to see if anyone has any thoughts on this. I realize that my hypothesis of a cap and revenue sharing are probably never to be realized so this is truly just a parlor game.


gunnerfan do your switch and I think you have a great Baseball league then.

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 Post subject: baseball realignment
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 9:56 am 
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OSUMANN, credit for originality. I wouldn't turn it away as a consideration...

- - - - - -

Marlins win LCS 4 games to 3. So, the franchise with the second worst fan support and an owner who cares more about profit than about winning gets to baseball's promised land?! Unbelievable. I guess this means Florida is off the contraction list, unfortunately.


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 Post subject: baseball realignment
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:54 pm 
I like expansion. My proposal:

AL East Baltimore Boston New York Toronto

AL North Chicago Cleveland Detroit Minnesota

AL South Colorado Kansas City Tampa Bay Texas

AL West Anaheim Arizona Oakland Seattle

NL East New York Pittsburg Philadelphia Wash DC

NL North Chicago Cincinatti Milwaukee St. Louis

NL South Atlanta Florida Houston Mexico

NL West Los Angeles Portland San Diego San Fran

54 division games (3*18)
72 league games (6*12)
24 interleage games (4yr rotation (4*6))
12 games against nearest interleague rival
162 games total

This would make sure teams like Mets and Yankees would play every year. I would add two wild cards with the two division winners with the best records getting first round byes. I also would have the team with the best record get home field in the World Series. I realize the struggle to get Arizona and Colorado to move divisions, but the NL would need an international team in Mexico, and the Portland team would need to offset Seattle being in the AL.


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 Post subject: baseball realignment
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:26 am 
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OSUMANN, I don't think the revenue sharing idea works either, but I strongly favor a salary cap. Here's why; The present system still allows teams to use locally generated revenue to enhance their club. This means the Yankees can afford 4-5 quality starting pitchers while many other clubs struggle to find 2-3. Similar to when Bear Bryant would use scholarships to prevent players form going to opposing schools, the Yankees can simply outbid any offer that might lead to a good player going to a competitor. Should a player recieve extra chess pieces simply because he's from the largest market? No. And if the Yankees and other big spenders had a cap on what they could spend, there'd likely be 3, 6 or more good players spread around to other teams. Scholarship limits have raised parity in college ball, and the salary cap has raised parity in the NFl, and now both of those sports are outdrawing MLB. Coincedence?

Also, the absence of a salary cap artificially inflates player values, salaries and ultimately the costs to us fans. Contracts for pro athletes are a) heavily based upon past performance, b) not directly tied to current or future performance, and c) mostly gauranteed. As a result, players who perform better than other overpriced players demand more than those overpriced players. And when teams bid for players in free agency, this problem is exacerbated. As a result, player costs have skyrocketed since the 80's, and now instead of tickets to a ball game being compared to tickets to a movie, they're being compared with a trip to an amusment park.

Granted, the revenue sharing thing could work much better if there were a salary floor, as well, since too many owners refuse to invest in their teams, instead pocketing the profits completely and letting their fans languish. There's also two other factors to consider; 1) Baseballs status as an excused monopoly, 2) all the public funding used to build the stadiums for the profit and wealth of these players and owners.

I would love to see MLB be better, and favor contracting a few teams. But capitalism is a relative term here because you cannot have a completely open market within the monopoly that is one pro sport.


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 Post subject: baseball realignment
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:19 am 
OSUMAN

My guess is that you are a fan of a big market team. I admit by bias as a fan of the small market Pirates. Actually, the discussion should be big and small PAYROLLS not MARKETS but that is another story.

I do think that revenue sharing should be put into place. I agree that we live in a capitalistic system but Major League Baseball needs to decide if it is one business or 30.

In my opinion, it would be better for the business of baseball to compete against other entertainment options. Is it healthy for baseball for the Yankees to win year in and year out? Is it healthy for the World Series games to start so late?

Football long ago passed baseball as the most popular sport. I bet basketball will someday soon. I think that baseball needs to be more concerned with competing against these sports than more concerned with the Yankees winning again.

Actually, a fair compromise would be to put the top 16 teams of payroll in one league and the bottom 16 in the other. That way the world seriew would always be a match up of David and Goliath (like this year).


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 Post subject: baseball realignment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 12:44 am 
Osuman. I am a Libertarian, capitalist lover myself. However, teams should compete against each other on the field, not financially. They are franchises of MLB. It is why you would not want two McDonalds competeing side by side (I know you brought this up in your second response, I just had to make a point). Also, if the Twins and Yankees switched cities, it would be the Yankee team that needed some financial redistribution. Although I must say that I don't think the disparity is as bad as everyone makes it. Look at the Marlins this year. And the Twins have won just as many(2) World Series as my/our Dodgers have in My lifetime (31yrs). I think the Yankees total domination makes the disparity bigger than it is. I truly think that no matter what is done to distribute $, Steinbrenner will still spend like crazy.


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 Post subject: baseball realignment
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 4:36 pm 
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As much as people like to bash Montreal as a market, I think Montreal is beginning to rediscover its baseball roots, and I would like to keep the Expos in Montreal. One team I would definitely move would be the Oakland A's. I would even move this team before I moved the Florida Marlins, and it surprises that other posters here seem to think Oakland's a great MLB market, which it really isn't.
Fact: Oakland has steadfastly refused to build the A's a new stadium. The A's had an area in mind, but Oakland's mayor said "no way, jose" and put a housing development on that land instead.
Fact: The city of Oakland fired the man they hired to try to keep the A's in Oakland, despite the fact the man was doing everything he could, only to have all of his efforts sabotaged by the major of Oakland.
Fact: San Jose does NOT want the A's coming in. Santa Clara, a suburb of San Jose, defeated a proposal that would give the A's a new ballpark.
As far as Sacramento is concerned, Sacramento really hasn't made any headway on an MLB to Sacramento effort. I'd say move the A's to Portland or Washington, D.C. Whoever doesn't get the A's, gets an expansion team. :)


Last edited by dawgnduckfan on Mon Oct 27, 2003 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: baseball realignment
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:19 pm 
Agreed DawgNDuckFan. I think Oakland is weak on keeping the A's. I would rather see them in Sac. though. As a Portlander, I would like an NL team, as not to live in the shadow of the Mariners. Offering the Al to Northwesterners in Seattle, and the NL in Portland, is a good balance. And for the people who don't want a MLB team in Portland, I cry, "just give me one." One more pro team. We are the largest(23) market in America with only one pro team. "Just give me one more." Anything to get the Blazers off their monopy high horse and shape up. A little economic sting (albeit small due to the wealth of our owner) cannot hurt. And if I understand your name correctly, how can you be a fan of both the purple and the green? Go Ducks. Wear those hideous lightning yellow uniforms just to piss the Husky fans off on Sat....


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 Post subject: baseball realignment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 8:58 am 
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I am not a fan of the so-called purple "Dawgs" ;D I am a fan of the real "Dawgs" who wear red & black!! (Georgia) ;D This team is located in the southeastern U.S., and hasn't played Oregon in a long time, if ever. :o BTW, Go Ducks!!! Beat the Huskies!!!


Last edited by dawgnduckfan on Tue Oct 28, 2003 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: baseball realignment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 9:01 am 
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Quote:
Agreed DawgNDuckFan. I think Oakland is weak on keeping the A's. I would rather see them in Sac. though. As a Portlander, I would like an NL team, as not to live in the shadow of the Mariners. Offering the Al to Northwesterners in Seattle, and the NL in Portland, is a good balance. And for the people who don't want a MLB team in Portland, I cry, "just give me one." One more pro team. We are the largest(23) market in America with only one pro team. "Just give me one more." Anything to get the Blazers off their monopy high horse and shape up. A little economic sting (albeit small due to the wealth of our owner) cannot hurt. And if I understand your name correctly, how can you be a fan of both the purple and the green? Go Ducks. Wear those hideous lightning yellow uniforms just to piss the Husky fans off on Sat....

On Sacramento though, they just haven't proven to me that they really want MLB. And I can see what you're saying about Portland getting an NL team to counterbalance Seattle's AL team. Washington DC is trying to do the same thing so as not to infuriate Orioles owner Pete Angelos too much.


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 Post subject: baseball realignment
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:34 pm 
AL East
Boston
Yankees
Blue Jays
Orioles
D-Rays

AL Central
ChiSox
Twins
Royals
Indians
Tigers

AL West
Texas
Anaheim
Seattle
Texas
Portland (Expos)


NL East
Braves
Mets
Phillies
Pirates
Marlins

NL Central
Reds
Cards
Brewers
Astros
Cubs

NL West
Giants
Padres
D-backs
Dodgers
Rockies

Teams play home-hoime with corresponding intrleague team (i.e. Yankees play regining NL division champs)


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 Post subject: baseball realignment
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:36 pm 
to Oakland!


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