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 Post subject: next to 32
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2003 2:58 pm 
The NFL currently has 32 teams.

Major League Baseball and the NHL each have 30 teams. The NBA will have 30 next year once Charlotte joins the league.

Which of these leagues will go to 32 teams first? I think the NBA is the only one that is a possibility. Any thoughts??


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 Post subject: next to 32
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:21 pm 
Short answer: The NBA, but even then it ain't happenin soon, IMO.

Long answer: MLB seems the least likely to grow anytime soon, and most likely to contract teams even after all this Expos-in-Puerto Rico nonsense. Plus, apart from DC there are no truly prime markets they need, and it would also be the costliest of team to build from scratch: Large team, large stadium, etc.

Hockey has also discussed contraction and relocation, but it's not as costly a product and they need the TV market retention, where possible. Personally, I favor the league scaling back and moving some squads back to Canada, but I'm old school that way. I also can't think of where they'd expand to, especially with Columbus essentially taking away Cleveland and Cincinatti. Utah is possible, but as I said, they'd perhaps think relocation first.

That leaves the NBA. The league with the smallest number of players and a huge talent pool, yet ironically the league that has also, IMO, suffered the most from expansion. Barring dictates from TV the league won't feel the need to divide their revenue an additional two ways while their ratings slowly dip, and again, the markets that remain aren't attention-getters. A true minor league or better relations with the college game would be better moves to improve fan interest and $$. Possible markets: Louisville, St. Louis, Las Vegas.


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 Post subject: next to 32
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:23 pm 
Now if the NHL could afford to simply expand in Winnepeg and Quebec, I'd be all for it...


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 Post subject: next to 32
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2003 4:09 pm 
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I see the NBA expanding next to 32. St. Louis will no doubt get a team. However, it's anyone's guess as to who that last team will be. OKC, Las Vegas, and maybe Louisville are in the mix. Don't look for MLB to contract. The last time it tried to do that it blew up in MLB's face. They won't try it again, trust me. There are several reason the Expos are playing in San Juan, but contraction isn't one of them.


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 Post subject: next to 32
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:43 am 

Quote:
I see the NBA expanding next to 32. St. Louis will no doubt get a team. However, it's anyone's guess as to who that last team will be. OKC, Las Vegas, and maybe Louisville are in the mix. Don't look for MLB to contract. The last time it tried to do that it blew up in MLB's face. They won't try it again, trust me. There are several reason the Expos are playing in San Juan, but contraction isn't one of them.


Pittsburgh, San Diego and What about Tampa Bay/ Saint Pete area?


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 Post subject: next to 32
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:14 am 
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Location: Wilmington, NC
does the nba need a team in tampa, the already got orlando?


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 Post subject: next to 32
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:57 am 

Quote:


Pittsburgh, San Diego and What about Tampa Bay/ Saint Pete area?

Pittsburgh- don't see Pittsburgh getting an NBA team. Pro basketball has never really fared well in Pittsburgh and the Penguins are having a hard enough time getting their own arena. Even if the Penguins and a Pittsburgh NBA team shared the arena, I still have my doubts about that working out.
San Diego- all depends on if they build a new arena or not. That's why I mentioned OKC. OKC has a new arena called for the Ford Center. San Diego currently does not, although there have been talks about a football stadium/basketball arena combo (yes, that's exactly what I said and meant!!) has been talked about.
Tampa/St Pete- more of a possibility than Pittsburgh or San Diego even with Orlando somewhat close by. To answer the other poster below, Tampa & Orlando get along about as well as SF & Oakland (the rivalry between those two cities is intense) or Washington & Baltimore (another intense city rivalry), so having a Tampa NBA team would be ok from that standpoint. The holdup comes in the form of the Tampa Bay Lightning's owner, who owns the Ice Palace (or the Arena formerly known as the Ice Palace). The Lightning's owner also owns the Detroit Pistons and isn't too keen on having NBA competition in his own arena. Have the arena get different ownership, and Tampa NBA might be a go.


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 Post subject: next to 32
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:36 pm 
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heres is some of the major cities of the top of my head where an nba team would make since, feel free to add, comment, etc.:

1. st. louis-they have everything else, could they share an arena w/ the blues, or would a new one have to be built? would open a new market for the nba

pittsburgh-another city with everything else, however as the game said, the pens are stuggling now so that makes an nba team unlikely, but it would also open a new market.

san diego- just move the clippers, isn't that where they started? why are they in la anyways?

san francisco- team here could have a good rivalry w/ golden state, another location where the clippers could be moved.

tampa bay-could have a good rivalry w/ orlando.

louisville- would be the of the big 4 to have a team there. big college bball town and new market. i see them like charlotte was back in 88.

las vegas- risky from pr pov, would make money though

any others im forgetting?


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 Post subject: next to 32
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:53 pm 
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kansas city is another one


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 Post subject: next to 32
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:09 pm 
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How about Atlanta? Oh, wait...

The Tampa issue has been addressed above, as has Pittsburgh. Depending on the general success of Memphis, Louisville and Cincinatti will receive some attention. The competition with such popular college programs may not translate as easily as with, say, NY. (Possible Lexington alternative?)

St. Louis and KC are, I believe, the largest markets without a team other than San Diego. I have no info or vibe how well a team might be received in either city, but at least St. Louis can package some built in "rivalries" with Chicago.

What about Nashville? Adding an NBA side so soon after the NHL and NFL might be overkill, but there's no overwhelming college bball to compete with, the city is known for pretty rabid support...

And pending the outcome of the new Nets ownership, might we see a new team pop up in NJ or Brooklyn, wherever the Nets don't land?


Last edited by gunnerfan on Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: next to 32
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:50 pm 
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Cincinnatti?


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 Post subject: next to 32
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:29 pm 
My predictions for possible expansions:

NBA: St. Louis and Las Vegas
NHL: Seattle and Las Vegas
MLB: Portland and Charlotte

(Mars and Venus might be better guesses for NHL or MLB because I just don't see either league expanding before the middle of the century)


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 Post subject: next to 32
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:45 pm 
New York, N.Y. 8,008,278
Los Angeles, Calif. 3,694,820
Chicago, Ill. 2,896,016
Houston, Tex. 1,953,631
Philadelphia, Pa. 1,517,550
Phoenix, Ariz. 1,321,045
San Diego, Calif. 1,223,400
Dallas, Tex. 1,188,580
San Antonio, Tex. 1,144,646
Detroit, Mich. 951,270
San Jose, Calif. 894,943
Indianapolis, Ind. 791,926
San Francisco, Calif. 776,733
Jacksonville, Fla. 735,617
Columbus, Ohio 711,470
Austin, Tex. 656,562
Baltimore, Md. 651,154
Memphis, Tenn. 650,100
Milwaukee, Wis. 596,974
Boston, Mass. 589,141
Washington, DC 572,059
Nashville, Tenn. 569,891
El Paso, Tex. 563,662
Seattle, Wash. 563,374
Denver, Colo. 554,636
Charlotte, N.C. 540,828
Fort Worth, Tex. 534,694
Portland, Ore. 529,121
Oklahoma City, Okla.506,132
Tucson, Ariz. 486,699
New Orleans, La. 484,674
Las Vegas, Nev. 478,434
Cleveland, Ohio 478,403
Long Beach, Calif. 461,522
Albuquerque, N.M. 448,607
Kansas City, Mo. 441,545
Fresno, Calif. 427,652
Virginia Beach, Va. 425,257
Atlanta, Ga. 416,474
Sacramento, Calif. 407,018
Oakland, Calif. 399,484
Mesa, Ariz. 396,375
Tulsa, Okla. 393,049
Omaha, Neb. 390,007
Minneapolis, Minn. 382,618
Honolulu Hawaii 371,657
Miami, Fla. 362,470
Colorado Springs, Colo. 360,890
St. Louis, Mo. 348,189
Wichita, Kans. 344,284


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 Post subject: next to 32
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:55 pm 
Alabama
Birmingham 242,820 72
Huntsville 158,216 130
Mobile 198,915 94
Montgomery 201,568 89

Alaska
Anchorage 260,283 66

Arizona
Chandler 176,581 116
Gilbert 109,697 208
Glendale 218,812 81
Mesa 396,375 43
Peoria 108,364 214
Phoenix 1,321,045 6
Scottsdale 202,705 88
Tempe 158,625 129
Tucson 486,699 30

Arkansas
Little Rock 183,133 112

California
Anaheim 328,014 56
Bakersfield 247,057 70
Berkeley 102,743 231
Burbank 100,316 243
Chula Vista 173,556 122
Concord 121,780 181
Corona 124,966 174
Costa Mesa 108,724 213
Daly City 103,621 227
Downey 107,323 216
El Monte 115,965 196
Escondido 133,559 164
Fontana 128,929 167
Fremont 203,413 87
Fresno 427,652 37
Fullerton 126,003 173
Garden Grove 165,196 127
Glendale 194,973 100
Hayward 140,030 154
Huntington Beach 189,594 103
Inglewood 112,580 204
Irvine 143,072 150
Lancaster 118,718 188
Long Beach 461,522 34
Los Angeles 3,694,820 2
Modesto 188,856 104
Moreno Valley 142,381 152
Norwalk 103,298 229
Oakland 399,484 42
Oceanside 161,029 128
Ontario 158,007 131
Orange 128,821 168
Oxnard 170,358 124
Palmdale 116,670 194
Pasadena 133,936 163
Pomona 149,473 141
Rancho Cucamonga 127,743 171
Riverside 255,166 68
Sacramento 407,018 41
Salinas 151,060 138
San Bernardino 185,401 110
San Buenaventura (Ventura) 100,916 240
San Diego 1,223,400 7
San Francisco 776,733 13
San Jose 894,943 11
Santa Ana 337,977 52
Santa Clara 102,361 232
Santa Clarita 151,088 137
Santa Rosa 147,595 144
Simi Valley 111,351 206
Stockton 243,771 71
Sunnyvale 131,760 165
Thousand Oaks 117,005 192
Torrance 137,946 159
Vallejo 116,760 193
West Covina 105,080 224

Colorado
Arvada 102,153 235
Aurora 276,393 62
Colorado Springs 360,890 49
Denver 554,636 25
Fort Collins 118,652 189
Lakewood 144,126 148
Pueblo 102,121 236
Westminster 100,940 239

Connecticut
Bridgeport 139,529 156
Hartford 121,578 183
New Haven 123,626 179
Stamford 117,083 191
Waterbury 107,271 217

District of Columbia
Washington1 572,059 21

Florida
Cape Coral 102,286 234
Clearwater 108,787 212
Coral Springs 117,549 190
Fort Lauderdale 152,397 134
Hialeah 226,419 76
Hollywood 139,357 157
Jacksonville 735,617 14
Miami 362,470 48
Orlando 185,951 107
Pembroke Pines 137,427 161
St. Petersburg 248,232 69
Tallahassee 150,624 139
Tampa 303,447 58

Georgia
Athens-Clarke County2 101,489 237
Atlanta 416,474 40
Augusta-Richmond County3 199,775 91
Columbus 186,291 106
Savannah 131,510 166

Hawaii
Honolulu CDP4 371,657 47

Idaho
Boise 185,787 108

Illinois
Aurora 142,990 151
Chicago 2,896,016 3
Joliet 106,221 221
Naperville 128,358 169
Peoria 112,936 203
Rockford 150,115 140
Springfield 111,454 205

Indiana
Evansville 121,582 182
Fort Wayne 205,727 85
Gary 102,746 230
Indianapolis 791,926 12
South Bend 107,789 215
Iowa
Cedar Rapids 120,758 185
Des Moines 198,682 95

Kansas
Kansas City 146,866 146
Overland Park 149,080 143
Topeka 122,377 180
Wichita 344,284 51

Kentucky
Lexington-Fayette 260,512 65
Louisville 256,231 67

Louisiana
Baton Rouge 227,818 75
Lafayette 110,257 207
New Orleans 484,674 31
Shreveport 200,145 90

Maryland
Baltimore 651,154 17

Massachusetts
Boston 589,141 20
Cambridge 101,355 238
Lowell 105,167 222
Springfield 152,082 135
Worcester 172,648 123

Michigan
Ann Arbor 114,024 199
Detroit 951,270 10
Flint 124,943 175
Grand Rapids 197,800 96
Lansing 119,128 187
Livonia 100,545 242
Sterling Heights 124,471 177
Warren 138,247 158

Minnesota
Minneapolis 382,618 46
St. Paul 287,151 60

Mississippi
Jackson 184,256 111

Missouri
Independence 113,288 202
Kansas City 441,545 36
St. Louis 348,189 50
Springfield 151,580 136

Nebraska
Lincoln 225,581 77
Omaha 390,007 45

Nevada
Henderson 175,381 118
Las Vegas 478,434 32
North Las Vegas 115,488 198
Reno 180,480 114

New Hampshire
Manchester 107,006 218

New Jersey
Elizabeth 120,568 186
Jersey City 240,055 73
Newark 273,546 64
Paterson 149,222 142

New Mexico
Albuquerque 448,607 35

New York
Buffalo 292,648 59
New York 8,008,278 1
Rochester 219,773 80
Syracuse 147,306 145
Yonkers 196,086 98
North Carolina

Charlotte 540,828 26
Durham 187,035 105
Fayetteville 121,015 184
Greensboro 223,891 78
Raleigh 276,093 63
Winston-Salem 185,776 109

Ohio
Akron 217,074 82
Cincinnati 331,285 55
Cleveland 478,403 33
Columbus 711,470 15
Dayton 166,179 126
Toledo 313,619 57

Oklahoma
Oklahoma City 506,132 29
Tulsa 393,049 44

Oregon
Eugene 137,893 160
Portland 529,121 28
Salem 136,924 162

Pennsylvania
Allentown 106,632 219
Erie 103,717 226
Philadelphia 1,517,550 5
Pittsburgh 334,563 53

Rhode Island
Providence 173,618 121

South Carolina
Columbia 116,278 195

South Dakota
Sioux Falls 123,975 178

Tennessee
Chattanooga 155,554 132
Clarksville 103,455 228
Knoxville 173,890 119
Memphis 650,100 18
Nashville-Davidson5 569,891 22

Texas
Abilene 115,930 197
Amarillo 173,627 120
Arlington 332,969 54
Austin 656,562 16
Beaumont 113,866 200
Brownsville 139,722 155
Carrollton 109,576 209
Corpus Christi 277,454 61
Dallas 1,188,580 8
El Paso 563,662 23
Fort Worth 534,694 27
Garland 215,768 83
Grand Prairie 127,427 172
Houston 1,953,631 4
Irving 191,615 102
Laredo 176,576 117
Lubbock 199,564 92
McAllen 106,414 220
Mesquite 124,523 176
Pasadena 141,674 153
Plano 222,030 79
San Antonio 1,144,646 9
Waco 113,726 201
Wichita Falls 104,197 225

Utah
Provo 105,166 223
Salt Lake City 181,743 113
West Valley City 108,896 211

Virginia
Alexandria 128,283 170
Chesapeake 199,184 93
Hampton 146,437 147
Newport News 180,150 115
Norfolk 234,403 74
Portsmouth 100,565 241
Richmond 197,790 97
Virginia Beach 425,257 38

Washington
Bellevue 109,569 210
Seattle 563,374 24
Spokane 195,629 99
Tacoma 193,556 101
Vancouver 143,560 149

Wisconsin
Green Bay 102,313 233
Madison 208,054 84
Milwaukee 596,974 19



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 Post subject: next to 32
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:34 pm 
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Location: Portland! (and about time!)
City populations, generally, mean squat.

1 New York--Northern New Jersey--Long Island, NY--NJ--CT--PA CMSA 21,199,865
2 Los Angeles--Riverside--Orange County, CA CMSA 16,373,645
3 Chicago--Gary--Kenosha, IL--IN--WI CMSA 9,157,540
4 Washington--Baltimore, DC--MD--VA--WV CMSA 7,608,070
5 San Francisco--Oakland--San Jose, CA CMSA 7,039,362
6 Philadelphia--Wilmington--Atlantic City, PA--NJ--DE--MD CMSA 6,188,463
7 Boston--Worcester--Lawrence, MA--NH--ME--CT CMSA 5,819,100
8 Detroit--Ann Arbor--Flint, MI CMSA 5,456,428
9 Dallas--Fort Worth, TX CMSA 5,221,801
10 Houston--Galveston--Brazoria, TX CMSA 4,669,571
11 Atlanta, GA MSA 4,112,198
12 Miami--Fort Lauderdale, FL CMSA 3,876,380
13 Seattle--Tacoma--Bremerton, WA CMSA 3,554,760
14 Phoenix--Mesa, AZ MSA 3,251,876
15 Minneapolis--St. Paul, MN--WI MSA 2,968,806
16 Cleveland--Akron, OH CMSA 2,945,831
17 San Diego, CA MSA 2,813,833
18 St. Louis, MO--IL MSA 2,603,607
19 Denver--Boulder--Greeley, CO CMSA 2,581,506
20 San Juan--Caguas--Arecibo, PR CMSA 2,450,292
21 Tampa--St. Petersburg--Clearwater, FL MSA 2,395,997
22 Pittsburgh, PA MSA 2,358,695
23 Portland--Salem, OR--WA CMSA 2,265,223
24 Cincinnati--Hamilton, OH--KY--IN CMSA 1,979,202
25 Sacramento--Yolo, CA CMSA 1,796,857
26 Kansas City, MO--KS MSA 1,776,062
27 Milwaukee--Racine, WI CMSA 1,689,572
28 Orlando, FL MSA 1,644,561
29 Indianapolis, IN MSA 1,607,486
30 San Antonio, TX MSA 1,592,383
31 Norfolk--Virginia Beach--Newport News, VA--NC MSA 1,569,541
32 Las Vegas, NV--AZ MSA 1,563,282
33 Columbus, OH MSA 1,540,157
34 Charlotte--Gastonia--Rock Hill, NC--SC MSA 1,499,293
35 New Orleans, LA MSA 1,337,726
36 Salt Lake City--Ogden, UT MSA 1,333,914
37 Greensboro--Winston-Salem--High Point, NC MSA 1,251,509
38 Austin--San Marcos, TX MSA 1,249,763
39 Nashville, TN MSA 1,231,311
40 Providence--Fall River--Warwick, RI--MA MSA 1,188,613
41 Raleigh--Durham--Chapel Hill, NC MSA 1,187,941
42 Hartford, CT MSA 1,183,110
43 Buffalo--Niagara Falls, NY MSA 1,170,111
44 Memphis, TN--AR--MS MSA 1,135,614
45 West Palm Beach--Boca Raton, FL MSA 1,131,184
46 Jacksonville, FL MSA 1,100,491
47 Rochester, NY MSA 1,098,201
48 Grand Rapids--Muskegon--Holland, MI MSA 1,088,514
49 Oklahoma City, OK MSA 1,083,346
50 Louisville, KY--IN MSA 1,025,598

I'll post what I think in a separate post.


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