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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 7:19 pm 
Are you for or against a playoff. If you are against it, post why. If you are for it post what it should be like and how many teams should be in it.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 11:16 pm 
I like the idea of a playoff for 1-A. It works for the other divisions, so why not for 1-A.

I propose (and know of others who say about the same) that it be a 16 team playoff. All the conference champs are in (11 teams) and 5 at large, and all are seeded 1 - 16. The at large teams and seeding done by a BCS like system.

Play the 1st and 2nd round games at the home field of the higher seeded teams. Then a week off for Xmas, and play the semi finals and finals at a neutral sites. These can be the existing bowls or even cities that may want to host. All games played on Saturday, except the Championship, which you can play Saturday night, Sunday (NFL conflict) or Monday night.

If I am czar, this would be done. LOL



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 8:36 am 
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Gator Guy,

I had the same idea yesterday, but waited till this morning to post. I will post the 4 points that I had written on my word processor before I signed on. The problems to overcome are:

1. A 16 team playoff is too long. The collage presidents have said so. They don't want to add a month to the season.
2. It would absolutely kill the bowls. Look at the N.I.T.. Without a top 16 team, a bowl game would be third tier or less. An 8 team playoff would kill off the system we know today, and a 4 team would seariously hurt it. Also, on a 2 round playoff you would only get 3 games. This would be a serious financial loss for many schools that depend on revenue sharing.
3. Tulane's demand for access would grow even stronger since a playoff would be under the NCAA. Even the Sun Belt would demand access. With eleven 1A conferences, you are back to a 4 round playoff. See point 1.
4. The SEC and the BIG 10 have 10 of the 11 largest stadiums. Big programs, over time normally beat little programs. Money talks. The SEC and Big 12 had half of the top 10 teams in 2002 if I recall correctly. Realignment belongs on the Dream thread. How do you make it fair to both the SEC and the Sun Belt with going to 3 divisions of 1A?

FBfan


Last edited by fbfan on Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:50 pm 
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A playoff is not only a good idea--it's the only good idea. We actually have a playoff now--problem is, it's only a two-team playoff.

Two ideas, the easier one first:

  • EIGHT TEAMS. Take the top eight BCS teams regardless of conf affiliation. #1, #2, #3, & #4 host #8, #7, #6, & #5, respectively, the second week of December (the week after the reg season ends). The first round of the playoffs will end no later than December 14. Then have your bowl selections (lower-tier and earlier bowls may select their teams earlier if it does not disrupt the playoffs).


  • The four winners in the first round will play semifinal games in BCS bowls, and they should be geographically placed. The two semifinal winners would square off at either a fifth BCS bowl or some other predetermined neutral site.

  • ALL CONFERENCES GET ACCESS

  • As of 2005, the SEC/ACC/BigXII/MAC/C-USA will have conference championship games during the first week of December. The five winners will receive automatic bids to a round of eight.

    During the same week, champions of BE/B-10/MWC/Pac-10/SBC/WAC will have three play-in games (if an indy is higher than the SBC champ, that team will go). #'s 1/2/3 will host #'s 6/5/4, respectively.

    Now there are eight teams. Take their BCS-style rankings (disregarding postseason games) and proceed exactly like my first format.

    If you lose in the first round, you can go to a bowl game. If you win in the first round, your semifinal is a bowl game.


Last edited by lsutootnanny on Mon Dec 15, 2003 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 9:13 am 
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You can put me on the no playoff side. It is the fact that there is no playoff that makes college football unique. I truly believe that should a playoff of eight teams or more (and thats what it will take to satisfy the non'BCS schools), regular season TV viewership and attendence will suffer.

I don't know about you guys, but with a family I only get one day of the weekend to spend on football. I choose to watch on Saturdays because the games actually mean something. More times than not, an OOC loss in September ends a teams national championship fight. So I tune in to watch Ohio St. vs. Washington, Michigan vs. Oregon, or Tennessee vs. Miami early in the season, because they are essentially elimination (playoff) games that last the whole season.

Why would I tune in during the regular season to watch Ohio St., Oklahoma, Michigan, Texas, USC, Miami, Fla. St. when I know they are going to the post season anyway and I'll just catch them there when the games really count? I haven't seen one Kansas City Chief, St. Louis Ram, or New England Patriot game this year because they don't mean much. We all knew these teams were going to play in the post season. :)

The quality of NFL football is higher than NCAA football. If the importance of the college games during the season is reduced, to the level of NFL games, why wouldn't I choose to spend my one day per weekend watching the superior product? ???

Granted, the ratings for the 3-4 weeks of playoff would be large, I doubt they would offset the loss of ratings during the season.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 11:26 am 
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I choose to watch on Saturdays because the games actually mean something. More times than not, an OOC loss in September ends a teams national championship fight. So I tune in to watch Ohio St. vs. Washington, Michigan vs. Oregon, or Tennessee vs. Miami early in the season, because they are essentially elimination (playoff) games that last the whole season.
If what you say is true, and Washington, Michigan, and Miami are eliminated from national championship contention early, doesn't it make the rest of their regular season worthless (in national championship terms)?

Right now we have a two-team playoff. That means we usually have about five or six contenders, two or three spoilers, and the winner of the Big Ten with no national championship hopes.

In a four team playoff, we'll have about 10 contenders, and in turn more spoilers and more national championship aspirations. That means during the regular season, there are more games that include a team playing to stay alive in the national championship hunt. To me, this makes the regular season more important.

Miami-OH lost their first game and has since won 12 straight, with hopes of only the Motor City Bowl. That makes the regular season meaningless--not a playoff.

Michigan is currently the #4 BCS team. They have played half their season with no aspirations of the national championship. With a four-team playoff, they play that half with hopes of slipping into the playoffs through the back door. That makes their regular season more important--not to mention that Ohio State game, where, under the current system, neither team had national championship hopes, but under a four-team playoff, the winner would go to the playoffs and be in the title hunt. Under a four-team playoff, the UM/OSU game would be of even greater significance.

I disagree with your statement depending on the number of playoff teams. Yes, 16 is too many. Eight might be too many. There is no way four is too many.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 11:49 am 
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The eight team forumlas seem the most appealing playoff scenarios, but there must be caveats to who's involved and I fear the same issues that pester the BCS would carry over. Simply taking the top eight from the "BCS" standings exude the same (percieved/real) bias towards the power conferences. And what if a conference championship winner finishes outside the top eight, like a KSU? The opposite side, however, remains an issue as well: Does anyone really think North Texas should be involved in an 8-team playoff instead of Oklahoma?

Seems to me the playoff idea simply addresses the issue of the actual national champion, and does little to resolve the representation issue that permeates the BCS. Unless of course the playoff involves so many teams (a la the NCAA's) that virtually everyone is invited.

So, playoff or not, the questions become should we differentiate between the power conferences and the mid-majors, and if so how should that difference be calculated in the BCS formulas?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 12:49 pm 
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If what you say is true, and Washington, Michigan, and Miami are eliminated from national championship contention early, doesn't it make the rest of their regular season worthless (in national championship terms)?



As far as the national championship for those specific teams are concerned, yes an early win usually makes the rest of the season moot. But lets take Michigan as an example. If they would have beaten Oregon way back in September, they would more than likely be playing in the Sugar Bowl. That game was played up by ABC as an early elimination game - thus the huge TV ratings (remember the elimination Saturday and separation Saturday hype - great stuff)!

Since you have an interest in a team that has national title hopes, Toot, I can understand your feelings on this. For myself, a Fresno State fan, or the vast majority of Americans that didn't graduate from or devoutly follow a BCS powerhouse team it is awfully fun to watch the season unfold as each powerhouse either passes or fails a regular season test for survival. :)


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 1:22 pm 
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The eight team forumlas seem the most appealing playoff scenarios, but there must be caveats to who's involved and I fear the same issues that pester the BCS would carry over. Simply taking the top eight from the "BCS" standings exude the same (percieved/real) bias towards the power conferences. And what if a conference championship winner finishes outside the top eight, like a KSU?
I'd say let them be the conference winners and go to a good bowl, but no playoffs.
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The opposite side, however, remains an issue as well: Does anyone really think North Texas should be involved in an 8-team playoff instead of Oklahoma?
Surely not. Really, in an 8-team playoff (or even the current system), the only gripe a team can have is being undefeated and shut out.

I see no reason why, in an 8-game playoff system, they couldn't put a clause in there like "If a team is undefeated and its opponents have a combined record of over .400, that team shall be in regardless of rank." FYI, NIU/UConn/Navy/UNT are the only 1A teams whose opps all have <.400.


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So, playoff or not, the questions become should we differentiate between the power conferences and the mid-majors, and if so how should that difference be calculated in the BCS formulas?

NO. The "power conferences" always have somebody in the top 8. The only time since the BCS has been around when a power conference had no one in the top 8 was last year when FSU was #14, and they had lost four games--hardly worth a playoff berth in this instance. I say ignore conference standings and take the nation's top 8. I can understand USC's beef with "not being in the top 2" under these circumstances, but if you're not in the top 8, I think there's little to complain about (hell, you'd have to play a road game vs. #1 in the country anyway).


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:41 pm 
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This would require some reshuffling and some teams may have to drop to IIA but that probably should happen anyway. Here Goes

Ten 12 team conferences established. The conference championship would be the defacto first round of the playoff. Then:

Wild Card:
C-USA vs WAC Champ
&
MAC vs Conf X (Generic conference as yet undeterined) Camp

Round 1.

The winners of the two above play in the Fiesta Bowl. The mid majors are represented by a competetive team.
Yes it's an extra game but it is better than not having a seat at the table.

The ACC vs Big East in the Orange Bowl

The PAC 10 and Big 10 in the Rose Bowl

The SEC and Big XII in the Sugar Bowl.

The winners of these games go on to a pair of semi-final games. Matched by their composite AP/Coaches poll rankings. #1 vs #4, #2 vs #3
and the the winners play in a Championship game.

The traditional bowl match-ups are maintained everybody has a shot at the title. The regular season maintains its relevance (If you don't win the conference you don't go to the show). The remaining Bowls still exist for the good teams that didn't make the cut to go have some fun.

The biggest downside would be the realignment but that happens by itself naturally from time to time anyway (as witnessed this spring).

I have put together an Excel chart of what this might look like and I'd love to let you guys take a look, but I don't know how to get it out there for you to see.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 6:32 am 
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I have put together an Excel chart of what this might look like and I'd love to let you guys take a look, but I don't know how to get it out there for you to see.

Wildhair, Welcome to the board!

If your spreadsheet only includes text and no graphics, you could click on the “Preformatted Text" button (just to the right of the button that looks something like “<-M” and copy / paste your spreadsheet data over the word "TEXT". Then use the "Preview" button to check it out.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:05 pm 
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This idea was posted on the BCS thread and is valid for this thread.

Unlike the NFL and Division 1AA that have playoff games at one of the highest ranked team playing, a playoff with division 1A would have to include the bowl system to get off the ground.

The four current BCS bowls would act as regional bowls hosting four teams each for a total of 16 playoff spots. Other minor bowls continue the same. Fans could travel to one city and attend two playoff games if their team advances.

There could be as many minor bowls as there are available football teams and someone is willing to put up the funds.

During the week before New Years the playoff begins with two games in each of the four host cities of the Orange, Sugar, Fiesta, and Rose. This should not be a problem with students missing classes as most schools are out for the holidays.

The current system has a huge void of important games until New Years day.

"Elite football 8" advance to four New Years Day bowls.

All four winners advance to'Final Four football" championship city with the same type of format. Two games the first week with both winners moving to play in the true division 1 championship game a week latter probably on Super Bowl weekend.

A regional concept of using the four current BCS bowls could include the conference championship games and create more meaning for these conference championship games. i.e. The Orange Bowl regional could host the winners of the ACC north and south divisions and two at large teams or BE champions and one at large team.

The Fiesta could host the Big 12 north and south teams and possibly use the Insight bowl as the other playin game with the BE champion playing in the Fiesta regional. The BE and Fiesta have a relationship that has occured for several years.

The Rose regional could be a Pac 10/Big 10 challenge with the top two teams of each conference playing in that regional. i.e. Pac 10 champion faces Big 10 second place and Big 10 champions faces Pac 10 second place with both winners advancing to Rose Bowl title game. This idea would provide a defacto championship game for the Pac 10 and Big 10 who currently refuse to want a conference championship game.

Using this scenerio the five largest BCS conferences would get two of the 16 bids and keep politcs in check.

The BE would get an automatic bid along with the possibility of adding an automatic bid for associate BCS members Conf USA and MWC.

If BE and Conf USA wanted to be double BCS bid type conferences they could merge and take the best 12 teams available or Conf USA and MWC could merge and take the best 12 teams available.

There would be three at large bids remaining. A playin game could be provided for the best of the other div 1A conferences (Sun, MAC, WAC). This game could be played sometime during the long void of waiting for the important regional games.

Two of the 16 at large bids would remain for Notre Dame, a possible runner up BE team or a third team from the SEC, Big 12, ACC, etc.

Summary, the college presidents are very much against a playoff at the present time and you cant blame them with all the scandals at Colorado, Miami, Va Tech, Baylor, and so on. If the academic side can be shored up with better graduation rates, improved behavorial changes at some of the jock schools by the players, this opinion may change in time.

The college presidents are the ones who will make any changes to college football post season. A playoff will not occur until the next BCS contract is up for renewal.

Until then, the current piggyback system will flush out issues with any regional type issues of hosting multiple games in the same host city. Academcis will become as important as SOS which thank goodness is being eliminated in the new BCS. Not because it is less important, however, more because is so subjective and unfair and the factors included in SOS is by humans and humans make many errors compared to computers. Computers are only as good as the data that is provided into the computer systems.

If the academic reform takes place, adding a host championship final four city in January extending the football season may not be so hard of a decision for the college presidents to make.

Until then, we have to live with the current BCS system which has the six BCS conference champions as automatic bids and a remote outside chance a non BCS conference member can get one of the four new at large BCS bids.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:20 pm 
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A 16 team playoff would destroy the tradition and allure that is college football. whether you realize it or not there is no way the regular season will continue to be all important with a full blown 16 team playoff.

realistically if you look at the end of the season, there are usually between 2-4 teams that REALLY deserve a shot at the national championship. the year ohio st. played miami, they were the only two teams that deserved the opportunity.

however, if you look at the previous year, there were 4 teams, miami, colorado, nebraska, and oregon, that could give claim to playing for the national title. that is usually the maximum, and i cannot think of a time in the bcs era of football where there have been more than 4 teams that are deserving of playing for the national title.

this is why i was in favor of the plus one plan. 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3 with the winners meeting a week later. one more game for two more teams wouldnt have caused the earth to end and as we have seen, it would have saved a lot of embarssment.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:01 pm 
The BCS is an attempt to have a clear national champion. It works, only sometimes!

There is tradition and so much money involved with the bowls. However, that structure conflicts with the idea of a playoff.

1-AA playoffs seem to work. However, none of those schools are playing in holiday bowls.

Using a modified bowl structure, there could be a playoff among the top four. However, conference memberships are not equal in number, and those that play championship games vs. those that don't has to be factored in some way. BCS representatives need to have played an equitable number of prior games within a designated time span.

No plan will be near perfect.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:28 pm 
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Yes.

Every other division and sport has it.

NIT exists with a bloated 65 team NCAA bb tourney. Bowls will continue to exist with a playoff. Bowls are NOT one of the good things about college fb anyway. They are one of the bad things.

It should be a 16 team playoff, giving nearly every conference champ an auto bid and including the strongest remaining teams. 1. It will not significantly lengthen the season. 2. With only 16 teams it will not degrade the regular season. There should be 8 or 9 conference champs who are automatic qualifiers (if they enforce the new standards, the SB goes away-and if the MWC expands the WAC goes away). That leaves only 7 or 8 wildcards. So if you lose 3 games, you won't get in. First round should be in the first half of December. Use regional bowls that are now matching 6-5 teams from the bottom half of a conference. 2nd round is New Year's Day. If B10 and P10 champ each win 1st round (which they normally will) they meet in Rose. MWC and B12 go to Cotton if they win first round. ACC and BE go to Orange if they win. SEC and CUSA go to Sugar if they win. 2nd round will be Fiesta matching Rose and Cotton winners and Sugar and Orange winners. Championship game will be only one week later than the 2006 championship game. Only 4 teams will play later than now, each one week longer. New Year's Bowls will become more important, rather than sidenotes as they are now.

An example for last year seeding the champions of the top 8 conferences (not the top 8 champions-otherwise Boise St. is in and Miami is not a wildcard) with 8 wildcards:
2003
Holiday USC 1 11 1
Purdue 13 9 3
Motor CityMichigan 4 10 2
Miami (O) 14 12 1
Winners meet in Rose

Sun Utah 25 9 2
Texas 5 10 2
Alamo KSU 10 10 3
Ohio St. 6 10 2
Winners meet in Cotton
Liberty So. Miss 27 9 3 OU 3 12 1 Outback LSU 2 12 1
Iowa 12 9 3
Winners meet in Sugar

Gator Miami (FL) 9 10 2
Tenn. 7 10 2
Peach Florida St. 8 10 2
UGA 11 10 3
Winners meet in Orange
Interesting that likely you would have had UM-USC in Rose and LSU-OU in Sugar and possibly Miami-FSU in Orange. The Cotton Bowl matchup would likely be TX vs. OSU as last year's Fiesta matchup, KSU-OSU, would be played in the Alamo Bowl.


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