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 Post subject: "BCS" finishes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:55 pm 
Teams listed finished in the Top 12 of the BCS (1998-2004) or the Top 12 of the (next to last, pre-bowl) AP Poll (1978-1997)...

BIG EAST
Louisville: 2004
Pittsburgh: 1979-1982
Syracuse: 1987, 1992
West Virginia: 1982, 1988, 1993

C-USA
East Carolina: 1991
Houston: 1978-1979, 1990
Marshall: 1999
Southern Methodist: 1981-1984
Tulane: 1998

MID-AMERICAN
Miami: 2003

MOUNTAIN WEST
Air Force: 1985
Brigham Young: 1979, 1983-1985, 1996
Colorado State: 1994
Utah: 2004

WESTERN ATHLETIC
Boise State: 2004


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 Post subject: "BCS" finishes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:19 pm 
IE, the ranking of mid major conferences goes like this:

CUSA
MWC
BE
WAC
MAC
SBC


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 Post subject: "BCS" finishes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:27 pm 
Teams listed finished in the Top 12 of the BCS (1998-2004) or were among the bowl-eligible Top 12 of the (next to last, pre-bowl) AP Poll (1978-1997)...

BIG EAST
Louisville: 2004
Pittsburgh: 1979-1982
Syracuse: 1987, 1992
West Virginia: 1982, 1988, 1993

C-USA
East Carolina: 1991
Houston: 1978-1979
Marshall: 1999
Southern Methodist: 1982-1984
Tulane: 1998

MID-AMERICAN
Miami: 2003

MOUNTAIN WEST
Air Force: 1985
Brigham Young: 1979, 1981, 1983-1985, 1990, 1996
Colorado State: 1994
Utah: 1994, 2004

WESTERN ATHLETIC
Boise State: 2004


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 Post subject: "BCS" finishes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:46 pm 
1978 was chosen because it marks the last time (before next season) that programs (Arizona, Arizona State) from one of the current "Coalition" conferences (WAC) became members of one of the current "BCS" conferences (Pac-10).

Note that Virginia Tech and West Virginia both left the Southern Conference (currently I-AA) in the 1960s before becoming charter members of the BIG EAST Football Conference (1991)...

Note that Colorado (Mountain States), Oklahoma State (Missouri Valley), and Texas Tech (Border) "ascended" to membership in the Big 8 and Southwest conferences, and that Houston had been an independent for fifteen years (after leaving the Missouri Valley) before becoming a member of the Southwest Conference...

Current "Coalition" members Houston, Idaho, Rice, Southern Methodist, Texas Christian, and Tulane are former members of "BCS-level" conferences (as is I-AA Montana)...








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 Post subject: "BCS" finishes
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 4:58 am 
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Quote:
IE, the ranking of mid major conferences goes like this:

CUSA
MWC
BE
WAC
MAC
SBC


I don't know how you determined this, Bisonfan, but using Mr Ouija's numbers, the truth is listed below:

Big East (10)
C-USA (10)
Mountain West (8)
Mid American (1)
Western Athletic (1)


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 Post subject: "BCS" finishes
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:47 am 
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Quote:
Teams listed finished in the Top 12 of the BCS (1998-2004) or the Top 12 of the (next to last, pre-bowl) AP Poll (1978-1997)...

BIG EAST
Louisville: 2004
Pittsburgh: 1979-1982
Syracuse: 1987, 1992
West Virginia: 1982, 1988, 1993

C-USA
East Carolina: 1991
Houston: 1978-1979, 1990
Marshall: 1999
Southern Methodist: 1981-1984
Tulane: 1998

MID-AMERICAN
Miami: 2003

MOUNTAIN WEST
Air Force: 1985
Brigham Young: 1979, 1983-1985, 1996
Colorado State: 1994
Utah: 2004

WESTERN ATHLETIC
Boise State: 2004



Mr Ouija, your list is in error. In the case of the Big East, for example, you omitted:

Syracuse: 1991

But why restrict the list to the AP poll? Let's include the Coaches' Poll. In the case of the Big East, that would add the following:

Louisville: 1990
Syracuse: 1988

In the case of the Big East, your list makes an interesting point. For the 15 year period (1979-93) prior to beginning regular Big East play, thecurrent conference members would have had a legitimate BCS rep 10 of the 15 years with the occasional down year that other conferences have also had - with the exception of the 4-year period 1983-86 - & West Virginia & Pitt combined for 3 Top 20 appearance during this period. By 1994, Miami & Virginia Tech came to dominate the conference.

I venture to say that you'd find the same thing with a number of other conferences if you took away their top 2 teams. A number of conferences have had a couple of dominant teams for a decade. As a result, everyone else starts out with 2 losses & is out of the running for the top 12. However, before the past decade of Miami/VPI dominance, current Big East schools were pretty consistently represented in the Top 12.

Clearly the Big East is going through an unusual period of reorganization. The BCS is giving them time to return to their pre-Miami/VPI form.


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 Post subject: "BCS" finishes
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:10 am 
Syracuse was #16 in the AP Poll before the bowl games...Syracuse was #11 in the AP Poll after the bowl games...

Just as there are no BCS rankings after the bowl games, I have used the next to last, pre-bowl AP poll (1978-1997)...

http://www.soonerstats.com/fb/polls/ap/seasons.cfm?SeasonID=1991&APPollID=700

Don't get me started on the Coaches Poll...double-check to see what the PRE-BOWL final rankings were for Louisville (1990) and Syracuse (1988)...


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 Post subject: "BCS" finishes
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 10:12 am 

Quote:



Mr Ouija, your list is in error. In the case of the Big East, for example, you omitted:

Syracuse: 1991

But why restrict the list to the AP poll? Let's include the Coaches' Poll. In the case of the Big East, that would add the following:

Louisville: 1990
Syracuse: 1988

In the case of the Big East, your list makes an interesting point. For the 15 year period (1979-93) prior to beginning regular Big East play, thecurrent conference members would have had a legitimate BCS rep 10 of the 15 years with the occasional down year that other conferences have also had - with the exception of the 4-year period 1983-86 - & West Virginia & Pitt combined for 3 Top 20 appearance during this period. By 1994, Miami & Virginia Tech came to dominate the conference.

I venture to say that you'd find the same thing with a number of other conferences if you took away their top 2 teams. A number of conferences have had a couple of dominant teams for a decade. As a result, everyone else starts out with 2 losses & is out of the running for the top 12. However, before the past decade of Miami/VPI dominance, current Big East schools were pretty consistently represented in the Top 12.

Clearly the Big East is going through an unusual period of reorganization. The BCS is giving them time to return to their pre-Miami/VPI form.


That simply can't happen because the BE has no big name teams anymore. That means that the BE strength of schedule is down which means the pollsters aren't going to recognize the success for anything more than what it is: mig major.


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 Post subject: "BCS" finishes
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 10:50 am 
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Quote:
Syracuse was #16 in the AP Poll before the bowl games...Syracuse was #11 in the AP Poll after the bowl games...

Just as there are no BCS rankings after the bowl games, I have used the next to last, pre-bowl AP poll (1978-1997)...

http://www.soonerstats.com/fb/polls/ap/seasons.cfm?SeasonID=1991&APPollID=700

Don't get me started on the Coaches Poll...double-check to see what the PRE-BOWL final rankings were for Louisville (1990) and Syracuse (1988)...


Thanks for the clarification. . . and I won't get you started on the Coaches' Poll. ;D


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 Post subject: "BCS" finishes
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:07 am 
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Quote:


That simply can't happen because the BE has no big name teams anymore. That means that the BE strength of schedule is down which means the pollsters aren't going to recognize the success for anything more than what it is: mig major.


I agree with you, Bisonfan & I think that the new Big East is not a BCS caliber conference.

You raise an interesting point about SOS. The challenge to the Big East schools is to schedule challenging non-conference schedules. Since most BCS schools don't do this, it can help to compensate for weak conference SOS. It is also why I believe that the Big East will not add any new football teams for the foreseeable future. 8 teams means a 7 game schedule which leaves room for an additional tough OOC oipponent. Any Big East teams that don't do this are doomed to exactly the fate you describe - & deservedly so.

Of course, the BCS has absolutely nothing to do with producing a true national champion. It is simply a gimmick to create interest, increase ticket sales & TV viewership, & to then generate $$$. If the Big East becomes a liability in $$$, they will be gone. As long as they generate interest, they will be part of the BCS. The tri-state New York area + West Virginia have no other representation & they represent 1 of every 7 TV sets, so the BCS will be cautious in eliminating this group. But it could happen.

No big name teams any more? How about another example. Is Notre Dame a big name team any more? Is Alabama? In this what-have-you-done-for-me-lately world, what's in a name? Yes, the Big East has no big name teams any more even though they have former national champions. Was Virginia Tech a big name team 10 years ago? Florida State 20 years ago? If you win, you're a big name team. Period. The conference has 3 teams that were at one time big name teams. They have 4 that are new to BCS, 2 of whom are new to I-A in the past decade or less. So, the new Big East is a conference only half of which represents traditional IA/BCS programs. They are bringing new guests to the table.

The BCS is giving the Big East experiment a few years to see if they can be competitive at the BCS level because of the potential revenue stream they represent. It's as simple as that. This is a business decision. There is no such thing as fairness, or who's deserving in any of this. There is no Santa Claus. (sorry, I know it is the season.) And there is no Tooth Fairy.


Last edited by friarfan on Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: "BCS" finishes
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:46 am 
The years listed mark times in which conferences (using 2005 alignments) failed to produce a team that finished in the Top 12 of the BCS (1998-2004) or the Top 12 of the (next to last, pre-bowl) AP Poll (1978-1997)...

ATLANTIC COAST
In 1982 #7 Clemson was on probation and was not eligible for a bowl game, and no other "ACC" team finished in the AP Top 12

BIG TEN (2000)
In 2004 Iowa finished #12 in the BCS, while the Big Ten's BCS representative (Michigan) finished #13

BIG XII
Kansas State finished #10 in the BCS in 2003

PAC-10 (1983, 1985, 1993, 1999)
-In 1980 #16 Washington represented the Pac-10 in the Rose Bowl; #12 USC was on (Pac-10) probation and ineligible for bowl competition (even if USC had been bowl-eligible, Washington still would have represented the Pac-10 in the Rose Bowl)
-In 1987 #16 USC represented the Pac-10 in the Rose Bowl; UCLA finished #10 and played in the Aloha Bowl
-In 1995 #17 USC represented the Pac-10 in the Rose Bowl; Oregon finished #12 and played in the Cotton Bowl

SEC
-In 2001, Florida and Tennessee finished #5 and #6, respectively, in the BCS, while the SEC's BCS representative (LSU) finished #13

SOUTHWEST CONFERENCE (1987)
(as SWC members, 1978-1995)
-In 1984, unranked Houston represented the SWC in the Cotton Bowl; #10 SMU played in the Aloha Bowl
-In 1994 unranked Texas Tech represented the SWC on the Cotton Bowl; #8 Texas A&M was on probation and ineligible for the Cotton Bowl


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 Post subject: "BCS" finishes
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:54 am 
In 1982, the next highest finish by an ACC team other than Clemson was that of Maryland (#16)...


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 Post subject: "BCS" finishes
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:06 pm 
In 1994, no SWC team other than Texas A&M finished in the AP Top 25, and there was a bizarre situation in which five teams (Baylor, Rice, Texas, TCU, Texas Tech) all finished tied behind Texas A&M (6-0-1) at 4-3 and were all declared co-champions (well, pent-champions anyway)...if I remember correctly Baylor could have gone to the Cotton Bowl with a late season win over Texas (Thanksgiving Day?) but was blown out by a large margin (in Waco?) and thereby failed to finish 5-2 in conference play...I'm not sure what team(s) lost to Houston in conference play (Texas A&M tied 0-6-1 SMU), but I am sure that they were kicking themselves after the season...

1994 was the last year that the Cotton Bowl hosted a team from the Southwest Conference (#21 USC destroyed unranked Texas Tech)...

Note the relative comparisons between the "final" year of the "old" Southwest Conference (granted there was a 1995 season in which Texas went 7-0 and played in the Sugar Bowl) and the "interim" year (2004) of the "new" BIG EAST (granted, the Fiesta Bowl has yet to be played)...


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 Post subject: "BCS" finishes
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:15 pm 
In 1996, Nebraska and Colorado finished #6 and #8, respectively, in the AP Poll, while #20 Texas represented the Big XII in the Bowl Alliance


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 Post subject: "BCS" finishes
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:21 pm 
In 1999, no Pac-10 team "placed" in the BCS rankings (1-15), and Stanford finished #22 in the AP Poll...

In 2000, no Big Ten team placed in the BCS rankings, and Purdue finished #14 in the AP Poll...


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