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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:09 pm 
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Now that the selections are final, it's time to look at what happened:

#1: Auburn

It's hard to argue that the top 2 teams didn't make it to the Orange Bowl. Depsite winning the SEC, Auburn did little with it's OOC schedule this year:

USC: Air Force, Colorado st., Notre Dame
OU: Bowling Green, Houston, Oregon
Auburn: ULM, Citadel, LA Tech



#2: Cal

It's a shame they are left out of the BCS. People looked at the score of the USM game and didn't consider: Cal played without their top 2 WRs for most of the second half. Cal played on the road against a bowl team. Cal had a late TD taken away ona bad call. Texas didn't even play this week.

This is a Cal team that lost it's only game at #1 USC and almost won before USC snagged a 23-17 win. Texas lost only one game, to #2 OU, dhutout 12-0.


To make things worse, Cal now plays int he Holiday Bowl against BCS #22 Texas Tech (7-4).

MEanwhile BCS ranked #9 Boise St plays #10 Louisville.

The onyl way that non-BCS conference teams will be able to improve their programs is by playing BCS conference teams in bowl games at a neutral site. Such non-BCS teams rarely can get a quality BCS conference school to play them at home and must go on the road.

With utah off to the BCS, the Liberty Bowl was left without their tied-in teams (CUSA and MWC champs).

What would have been best for all teams would have been to let Louisville and Boise st. make the next step.

I'd like to have seen a simple swap of:

Holiday Bowl (at San diego):
Boise St. vs Cal

Liberty Bowl at Memphis:
Louisville vs Texas Tech

Instead we get two top non-BCS schools beating up each other while Cal, the #5 team in the bCS playing the #22 team. This doesn't help anyone.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 1:39 pm 
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Quinn,
What REALLY stinks is that Bowling Green was suppose to play Auburn! BG had a buy-out clause that was only $25k or so and took it in order to play OU for more money. You could honestly say that OU BOUGHT THEIR SHOT AT THE TITLE! Auburn had to schedule the Citadel, because there was not enough time to schedule a better opponant. Despite this, Auburn's schedule was ranked #9 and OU's was around 26.

On another thread someone said that they thought that there was a PAC-10 bias, and someone else thought it was a Big East/Big 10 bias. I would agree with the later, but I honestly think that there is a prejudice against the SEC. Probably from jealousy.

We need a better system, but the presidents don't want anything that even looks like a playoff. Coaches seem to be coming around, and even some ADs, but the presidents have the power, and they don't want it.

FBfan


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 1:49 pm 
1) If there were no BCS, USC would've been locked in the Rose Bowl and Cal wouldn't have even been considered. It is asinine that they could win this weekend and geth DROPPED in the polls, and Coach Brown's campaign for Texas was embarassing, but any whining over this just compounds the materialistic nature of the game.

2) ESPN's Daily Quickie on Page 2 has it right: The BCS was designed to match #1 vs #2. Period. The rest of the match-ups were incidental. Without the BCS each of the top three teams would be playing someone else, with perhaps Oklahoma-Utah in the Fiesta being the only conest among undefeateds.

3) Should Auburn have gone to the Orange over USC or Oklahoma? Possibly. But this whole "undefeated in the SEC" reasoning is 1) egomaniacal, 2) a slight to other conferences, 3) weak. On average the SEC is among the best in the country, but that doesn't gaurantee the single best team MUST come from that conference. The Big 12 south was rather stout, and the at large bid for the BCS was going to someone from either the PAC 10 or the Big 12, not the SEC.

4) I will agree the BCS would've made tremendous jumps if it went with the Plus-one model instead of the piggyback. But I'll also contend that 1-A would be better off without either, letting the debates rage on year after year while the popularity grows. What's more important is the journey, not the destination.






Last edited by GunnerFanOffline on Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:42 pm 
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First off, while Bowling Green abandoned Auburn to play Oklahoma, Oregon dumped Nevada for the same reason... which probably happened after the Bowling Green switch. Credit Oklahoma, I guess, for working to improve what originally looked like a dismal schedule. Still, I think voters need to override computer tendencies toward schedule strength by actually evaluating talent versus talent on the teams actually in the hunt.

Now, rant time...

The "Presidents don't want a playoff" argument is, IMO, bogus.

I firmly believe said presidents want more money from a playoff system than they get from the bowl system in order to buy into it. So far, no dice.

I think I ran the reasons why into the ground last year, but there's a couple more:

* Who would watch a first-round matchup between Southern California and North Texas? If the NCAA took over the post season, they'd HAVE to be fair to ALL 1-A conferences.

* Since the bowls will not host playoff games, do you run games during Thanksgiving when kids are home? During winter break when everyone's gone? During the NFL playoffs?

OK, I'll drag the basic argument out of the ground for a bit. Bowls may like a handful of well-heeled donors to really soak them out of some cash, but the economic power of the bowls stems from the travel industry selling thousands upon thousands of those 4-digit tour packages to the regular fans. With a playoff, many fans of favored schools will opt for TV early on, those non-BCS upstarts won't bring 10,000 fans on the road, and few to none of the fans are doing 3 weekends out of 4 or 4 out of 5 without eschewing the tour bus. There's no added value to that. I estimate national sponsors have to make up for that... probably to twice what CBS pays for March Madness. That's 3 billion to ensure each major conference gets at least what they get now, and they are prevented from preventing some funds flocking to the little guys, and there's an extra bureaucracy skimming off the top.


Last edited by pounder on Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:58 pm 
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Agreed. The fact that in the human polls it meant that some people were voting Cal below #6 and Texas at #4 is sad. USC, OU and AU 1-2-3, correct.

And if you are a Big XII coach, perhaps you can vote Texas #4 and Cal #5, but even that scenario just with the Big XII coaches wouldn't have been enough.

We were told that the human polls (AP and Coaches) would hold the most merit to combat the problems of 2003.

Well, like 2003, the computer polls made the decision final...one that will likely push the Rose Bowl to leave the BCS (since ABC retains the Rose Bowl and dropped the other games...the Rose Bowl onyl agreed to joint he BCS at the urging of ABC)






Cal/Tex were 4/5 in the AP poll as well as the Coaches Poll.



Polls Used in BCS Formula:

Coaches Poll
Cal = 4, Texas = 5

AP Poll
Cal = 4, Texas = 5



"Computer Polls":

Anderson & Hester

http://www.andersonsports.com/football/ACF_frnk.html

Texas = 4, Cal = 6


Richard Billingsley
http://www.cfrc.com/Ratings_2004/WK_15.htm

Texas = 4, Cal = 8


Colley Matrix
http://colleyrankings.com/currank.html

Texas = 4, Cal = 6



Kenneth Massey
http://www.masseyratings.com/rate/cf-m.htm

Cal = 4, Texas = 6



Jeff Sagarin
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt04.htm

Cal = 3, Texas = 6


Peter Wolfe
http://www.bol.ucla.edu/~prwolfe/cfootball/ratings.htm

Texas = 4, Cal =6

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:34 pm 
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6 voters dropped Cal below #6:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/sports/AP-FBC-Pac-10-BCS-Disappointment.html

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:35 pm 
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I have to disagree on moving teams from the Holiday bowl and the Liberty.

Can't wait for the Liberty bowl game on TV matching two undefeated conference champions.

The Liberty bowl is spirt of what needs to be changed with the BCS.

California did not win its conference championship and the Holiday bowl sounds about fair.

I would have replaced Texas with Boise State as the more deserving BCS team.

Then California could have played Texas in the Holiday Whining bowl.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:26 pm 

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Re: BCS Selections: Monday Morning QB
« Reply #8 on 12/6/2004 at 7:36pm »
[Quote] [Modify] [Delete]



Big 12 fans constantly say the Pac10 isnt good however Mack Brown's record vs the pac 10 is lol 2-4 and he never played USC. Texas overall record v pac 10 since 1981 is 3-6.

As the Big 12 isnt quite an academic conference is easy to see why perhaps they think that somehow because Texas scored a lower number than its Pac 10 opponents that perhaps that means they won.

Cal really got screwed. Not only does it have class academically but its coach showed real character by letting the clock run out v Southern Miss and by not pandering for votes as Texas' coach did.


Im in Texas too - how embarrassing!

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:38 pm 
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I'll make an early prediction. With all the whining, Cal won't be ready to play. Even though they are clearly a better team:

Texas Tech 41
Cal 17

Texas has run into the same thing in the Holiday Bowl a couple of times.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:44 pm 
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<<Cal really got screwed. Not only does it have class academically but its coach showed real character by letting the clock run out v Southern Miss and by not pandering for votes as Texas' coach did.>> Of course, he would have looked bad if he tried to score after the other team gave up the ball on downs in their own territory and he failed to score. There were only 39 seconds left when they took a knee.

I think the real problem with the Cal fans is that they got caught off guard. So did most of the national media. I've figured Texas would catch Cal since before the A&M game if both won out. Its been widely speculated on the Texas boards (certainly not unanimously) for at least a couple of weeks.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:50 pm 
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As for the USM game, USM has really struggled the last half of the season and Cal did not look like a top 10 team that night. Maybe even not a top 20 team. USM was about to tie the game with 6 minutes left, so the late TD called back wouldn't have made it a blowout. Cal suffered from the "what have you done for me lately" scenario where pollsters look at the last game and not the whole season. But in reality, they didn't lose many votes. And they only needed to lose 3 to Texas to fall behind Texas.

And noone is commenting on how Cal gained 15 points and Utah lost 24 when neither played Thanksgiving weekend.

The lack of knowledge of some of the pollsters matches the lack of knowledge by the ESPN crew. And that is 2/3 of the vote for the BCS. And mindless computers are the other 1/3.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:59 pm 
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Beyond the BCS:

The fixed nature of the matches causes some of the other problems in bowls. The Holiday Bowl is a great bowl, but it is stuck with #2 Pac 10 and #3 Big 12. The Cotton is stuck with #2 Big 12 and #2-4 (normally #4) from the SEC. And when a conference gets a 2nd team, it distorts those matchups. We could have had Cal vs. Louisville or Miami or Georgia. How about Boise vs. Texas Tech? I wonder what the over/under on that game would be? 100 points?

The fixed games also may be starting to cause some problems. Georgia was getting tired of Tampa, but they got better bowls the last 2 years. Texas has been to the Cotton or Holiday for the last 7 years prior to this year.

The bowls and conferences need to work out some more flexible arrangements.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:07 pm 
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<<On another thread someone said that they thought that there was a PAC-10 bias, and someone else thought it was a Big East/Big 10 bias. I would agree with the later, but I honestly think that there is a prejudice against the SEC. Probably from jealousy.>>

I know you are being serious, but I still laughed. Pac 10 schools do suffer from being in a different time zone. Out of sight, out of mind. Explain Arizona St. this year to me? Prior to their Arizona loss, their 2 losses were to the #1 and #4 ranked teams in the country, but they rated below a number of 3 loss teams. They blew out Big 10 co-champ Iowa by 37. They beat UTEP by 32 and also beat Northwestern ooc. Big 10 and SEC schools get the benefit of a doubt. And fans in those areas are incredibly paraochial. Perhaps the influx of outsiders in the west makes them a little more open minded. I've lived in Big 10, SEC and Big 12 territory and read the papers in each. I'm a fan of Big 12 and SEC schools.

The SEC gets breaks in the polls, never bias. And the Big 10 gets even more.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:09 am 
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Quote:
<<Cal really got screwed. Not only does it have class academically but its coach showed real character by letting the clock run out v Southern Miss and by not pandering for votes as Texas' coach did.>> Of course, he would have looked bad if he tried to score after the other team gave up the ball on downs in their own territory and he failed to score. There were only 39 seconds left when they took a knee.

I think the real problem with the Cal fans is that they got caught off guard. So did most of the national media. I've figured Texas would catch Cal since before the A&M game if both won out. Its been widely speculated on the Texas boards (certainly not unanimously) for at least a couple of weeks.



Yes, but the REASON Texas caught up t Cal was a change in votes from coaches (the AP votes remained the same). When 6 coaches vote Cal #7 or below, it's a bit shady.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:01 pm 
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Maybe this could be the solution for BCS and Cal and Texas predicament.

Replace the AP and Coaches polls and bring in the French Olympic Skating judges to determine the BCS teams.

If the French Skating judges manipulate and select the wrong teams such as Texas was picked by the AP voters this year, you could then bring in the Japanese Gymnastics team to complain and say Texas loses in the Rose and California wins the Holiday, Texas would then have to forfeit the 15 million dollar BCS money and give back to California.

The sad part is my favorite college sport has been highjacked by this whole BCS mess and unlike Figure Skating and Gymnastics that have to rely on subjective voting practices could be played out on the field.

Please guys the simple solution is a 16 team playoff where California, Texas, Bosie State, Utah, Louisville or whom ever wins Conf USA next year and the big Conferences would all be able to join the party.

Best of all Auburn the team that got the biggest shaft for winning arguably the toughest conference including a championship game and does not get to play for the title. Would USC and Oklahaoma be undefeated if they played a SEC conference schedule. Remember the SEC does not have a weak north division and most of the SEC teams have winning records. Check the Pac 10 for teams that have winning records.

The BCS plain and simple needs to be replaced with a 16 team playoff. Divsion 1AA does it and no impacts to class rooms etc.

The minor bowls could continue.

The College Presidents need to wake up and smell the coffee before some of us die hard college football fans decide that we can get our football fix by following the NFL that has a playoff.




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