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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 4:48 pm 

Quote:
LSU outscored its opponents 475-154 (+321, 3.08/1 ratio), while USC outscored its opponents 534-239 (+295, 2.23/1 ratio).


Now, if the computers grabbed totals and used them, you might have an argument. That's not how they use the at all, though.


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Better record, tougher opponents, tougher schedule, more impressive scoring margin. However you look at it, LSU had the better season. When we all have grandkids, LSU--not USC--will be remembered as the champion.


If better record mattered, Penn would have been champion. "Tougher" schedule is strictly a matter of opinion., as is "more impressive". And you're a dolt if you think USC won't be reconized as much as a champion as LSU.




Quote:

Nobody (and I've been on the USC boards, too, and they are god-awful at math) has been able to give me some numbers supporting the voters' theory that USC was the best team in the land.

The polls were wrong. The BCS didn't fail in producing a champion; the AP simply voted for the wrong team.


Most were going by what they saw, not "numbers". Numbers are great for some thing, but people will use their own judgment when the numbers are close, as they were in this case.

There's a split championship. Maybe you need to go to theropy to deal with it.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:03 pm 

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BCS rank SOS out of 117 schools...
LSU #13
USC #20


Hey... LSU finished with the #12 schedule. Way to fudge the numbers.

Seriously though, using win/loss records isn't really the best way to judge schedules. LSU can claim a tougher schedule on one end, but have to confess an easier schedule on the other end. You cannot strictly judge how good a team is on just schedules, though.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:48 pm 
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What's truly amazing to me is that before the BCS, USC would be considered the undisputed national champion, when there are virtually no numbers that suggest that they were the best team in the nation.

Sure there are lies, d**n lies, and statistics, but when there are no numbers to support a claim, why are so many people making it?

Al Gore has more of a claim to the White House than USC has to the National Championship.

If the writers played it how they saw it, what did they see? I think they saw the city of L.A. and the city of B.R., and L.A. is prettier to them.

Maybe I'm a dolt, and maybe I need "theropy," but when I ask people to show me why USC was the best team in the land, the only answer seems to be something to the effect of, "They just were."

Remember in algebra class when you had to "show your work" to get full credit for your answer? I'd like to see the voters' "work." Is there any? Or was USC the best team because "They just were?" That's what their vote means? That's it?

Democracy no longer decides championships. It may decide who gets to be the President, but this is important.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:28 pm 

Quote:
What's truly amazing to me is that before the BCS, USC would be considered the undisputed national champion, when there are virtually no numbers that suggest that they were the best team in the nation.


All the numbers suggest that the teams were fairly even. People used their eyes to judge that they were. Right or wrong, that's how it was. I agree that it'd have been a crime for LSU to not get the split. Of course, I think if USC had not got a split, it'd be an equal crime, which I doubt you'd agree with, but that's just my objectivity talking.




Quote:

Sure there are lies, d**n lies, and statistics, but when there are no numbers to support a claim, why are so many people making it?


While I'm not sure why you'd want to get into a pissing contest when all then numbers are so close (as if that should be the only factor), here's some. Shutouts, USC - 2, LSU - 0. Blowout losses, LSU - 1, USC - 0. Home record, USC - 6-0, LSU - 6-1 (5-1 against I-A). Both teams were 12-1 against I-A teams, both teams were 6-1 against bowl teams, both teams were 10-1 against BCS teams. USC offense scored 41.1 points per game, LSU a mere 33.9. And, if we want to take this selective stat idiocy farther, we can point out the USC was undefeated against ranked teams, LSU was not.

What does it all mean? The numbers for both teams are very similar. Though most of the voters though USC was a better team, nobody knows for sure and it'd been a crime to deny LSU. It's a split title. Get over it.



Al Gore has more of a claim to the White House than USC has to the National Championship.

If the writers played it how they saw it, what did they see? I think they saw the city of L.A. and the city of B.R., and L.A. is prettier to them.

Maybe I'm a dolt, and maybe I need "theropy," but when I ask people to show me why USC was the best team in the land, the only answer seems to be something to the effect of, "They just were."

Remember in algebra class when you had to "show your work" to get full credit for your answer? I'd like to see the voters' "work." Is there any? Or was USC the best team because "They just were?" That's what their vote means? That's it?

Democracy no longer decides championships. It may decide who gets to be the President, but this is important.[/quote]


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:43 pm 

Quote:

Democracy no longer decides championships. It may decide who gets to be the President, but this is important.


Cute statement, but since voting has always been a part of the title selection, your statement is patently false.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:05 pm 
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Quote:


All the numbers suggest that the teams were fairly even.
"Fairly" even? Sure it was close, but every cumulative W/L statistic points to LSU. If the score at the end of the game is 20-19, both teams are fairly even, but there's only one winner.

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I agree that it'd have been a crime for LSU to not get the split. Of course, I think if USC had not got a split, it'd be an equal crime, which I doubt you'd agree with, but that's just my objectivity talking.
No, that is not objectivity. For you to say both teams are equal is false. USC got the "split" because of nothing but subjective thinking. There is absolutely nothing objective about anything you have posted so far...


Quote:
Shutouts, USC - 2, LSU - 0.
One of those shutouts was Auburn (23-0). USC beat AU by 23; LSU beat AU by 24. The other was Arizona (45-0); LSU beat UA by 46. LSU beat Auburn and Arizona worse than did USC. So far, you have no point.

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Blowout losses, LSU - 1, USC - 0.
Twelve points is a blowout? This ain't soccer.

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Home record, USC - 6-0, LSU - 6-1 (5-1 against I-A).
I do not deal with selective statistics.

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USC offense scored 41.1 points per game, LSU a mere 33.9.
Very objective of you to leave out the defensive totals. ::)
Quote:
And, if we want to take this selective stat idiocy farther, we can point out the USC was undefeated against ranked teams, LSU was not.
To this point, you are the only one who has provided selective statistics.


Quote:
What does it all mean? The numbers for both teams are very similar.
...and slightly better all-around in favor of LSU.


Poor argument. No numbers suggest that USC was the better team.


Last edited by lsutootnanny on Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:20 am 

Quote:
Kind of presumptuous of you to start insulting people on a site when you're not a member (pissing contest, idiocy, "theropy," etc).

Poor argument. No numbers suggest that USC was the better team.


Ooh, member bigoty. Great, but I am a member. Do I fit into your world now?


Still claim no numbers suggest that USC was the better team even I gave you some. Well, while I admit my numbers wouldn't prove that, something you miss out on is that there are no numbers to prove LSU was a better team, either. Despite what you might believe.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:22 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:17 pm
Posts: 822
Location: Dothan, AL for the time being.
Toot, ktf is an indeed a member. I think he just needs the email confirming that. ktf, if you email me, I'll try to check on your membership status. :)


Last edited by dawgnduckfan on Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:47 am 
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TEXT


Al Gore's claim to the presidency was based on making up the rules as you went along to suit your purposes. Like elections, the BCS does set the rules beforehand. You can't control how many games your opponents win, but you can select them. And with the polls, there is a beauty contest component, and everyone knows that before the season. A team that wins 41-20 is going to look better to the pollsters than a team that wins 34-13.

You can control all of that by simply winning all your games. If you get dominated by the slimy Gators at home or nipped by the hapless Bears on the road, you can't complain too much about getting ripped off.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:30 pm 
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Moved to BCS Banter Forum: 1/4/2004

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