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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:50 pm 

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As I have just posted in another thread, I have been reflecting on how there are mathematical models out there that could easily be implemented to establish a post season/national championship, as well as the format and number of teams represented in that post season and national championship as well as the college conference alignment that would accommodate that post season play.

Many people here have thought of some very intriguing and workable models to implement for college football national championship post season and the college conference alignment that reflects that. As I read through these different proposals, I see different intents or desired elements that people here would like to preserve or attain in college football. There are many workable solutions, but if the College Presidents, AD's, and Conference CEO's sat down to try to implement them, these intents/desired elements/desired outcomes/desired purposes/desired missions/issues/important aspects, whatever you may call them can conflict, and as a result, a logical or very workable solution is amended in its workable design and as a result, it ends up not being a workable solution in the end. In other words, its tough to come up with a solution or a model that will please everyone because of these conflicting elements/desires etc. of the game that people enjoy or would enjoy.

So here is my question for the posters of this board.

What is the most important aspects/elements/desired purposes/desired outcomes/mission that you would like to either have in college football and/or preserved as it relates to college conference alignment and post season play and process to determine both conference champions and national champions?

You can list more than one if you want, but try to say which one is the most important for the future of college football.

I am unlike the rest of you, as I too have a desired interest or two that I would like to see be acheived and/or preserved. I'll make mine in another post.

This would be interesting to see what each of you would say/list here, as it might paint what the different perspectives are out there on this issue, how they might conflict, and what might be some ways to overcome it.


I think college football is too much about money. College should be about the game: coaches, players, and fans. There's too much money tied up in it.

Get rid of scholarships.

Playing college football should be about playing because you like football, not getting paid to play football.

The NFL should set up a minor league system of their own for players who don't care about getting an education.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:38 pm 
Because I don't care about D3.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:35 pm 
There's always the Ivy League, the Patriot League, the Pioneer Football League, the MAAC Football League, the Northeast Conference, and the service academies...


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:42 pm 
It was interesting to watch the 'gate take on Delaware 2 seasons ago.

But as for the rest, I don't care about them either.

I care about the Big 10 mainly. They should be non scholarships along with the rest of the NCAA.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:38 pm 
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Quote:
Because I don't care about D3.


And we don't care about that.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:44 pm 
So what?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:50 pm 
I'm not sold on the "drop scholarship campaign," but I do know that if the NFL ever adopted a minor league than college football would suffer tremendously, and in the long run I feel football would suffer tremendously.

Besides, isn't shifting from a collegiate system to a minor league system making it moreso for the money? While the concept of student athletes in the premier college sports of football, basketball and baseball is essentially just a concept, that doesn't mean it's a bad one. It means we're on average failing to fulfill the full mission of college athletics.

Yet, it is that concept that helps make the game for me. I agree with Met's take on the national appeal and would these things:
- That college football forver maintain the diversity and relative balance of strong programs throughout the country;
- That college football maintain ties to the colleges and universities.

For the former, I love learning about the different styles and traditions of other conferences, and part of what makes the sport great is how rare the out of conference match-up is because of scheduling and travel issues. Thus, an inter-regional match-up of average schools takes on added interest because of the clash of cultures involved. I love that Michigan and Texas are both strong and successful but also hadn't met till this year!

For the latter, I've advocated altering the affiliation athletics has with schools. Something wherein players have access to courses and university benefits but it's known they're not traditional students. (D@#$, I'm forgetting the term right now) These programs could ential sponsorship from the pro sports but players across the country recieve the same package of benefits: No one's choosing Texas over LSU because of a negotiable salary. I'm also a strong advocate of professional athletics as a course of study for at least certification if not degree. I think we'd all appreciate a more intelligent pool of professional athelte out there.

But a very strong part of the appeal of the game and the reason many of us cheer for these players is that they do in some way represent the school. I despise people who root for collegiate programs like pro teams, with no regard for the virtues of the university! That's what the pro's are for. I, like many current and former students, root for my team because by golly we believe in our school and will go down swinging! That's the spirit that built the pagentry around the game, the same pagentry that has raised it to the level of success and appreciation it has today. Fight songs, conference and state rivalries, and the ability to carry that rivalry over into other sports.

I'll understand and expect changes that address the money issue (Though I think the problem lies more in coaches salaries than scholarships) and no that someday it will be less pure (amateur) than it is now, but moving whole heartedly to a semi-pro condition would IMO be the wrost thing that could happen to the game and I will fight it with every fiber of my sports-fan being.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:54 pm 
In lieu of my "more intelligent athlete" comment I must get this point out there: I know there are at least three misspellings in my last post but did it as a guest and can't edit it. Sorry, but I was typing in a hurry!


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:08 pm 

Quote:
I'm not sold on the "drop scholarship campaign," but I do know that if the NFL ever adopted a minor league than college football would suffer tremendously, and in the long run I feel football would suffer tremendously.

Besides, isn't shifting from a collegiate system to a minor league system making it moreso for the money? While the concept of student athletes in the premier college sports of football, basketball and baseball is essentially just a concept, that doesn't mean it's a bad one. It means we're on average failing to fulfill the full mission of college athletics.

Yet, it is that concept that helps make the game for me. I agree with Met's take on the national appeal and would these things:
- That college football forver maintain the diversity and relative balance of strong programs throughout the country;
- That college football maintain ties to the colleges and universities.

For the former, I love learning about the different styles and traditions of other conferences, and part of what makes the sport great is how rare the out of conference match-up is because of scheduling and travel issues. Thus, an inter-regional match-up of average schools takes on added interest because of the clash of cultures involved. I love that Michigan and Texas are both strong and successful but also hadn't met till this year!

For the latter, I've advocated altering the affiliation athletics has with schools. Something wherein players have access to courses and university benefits but it's known they're not traditional students. (D@#$, I'm forgetting the term right now) These programs could ential sponsorship from the pro sports but players across the country recieve the same package of benefits: No one's choosing Texas over LSU because of a negotiable salary. I'm also a strong advocate of professional athletics as a course of study for at least certification if not degree. I think we'd all appreciate a more intelligent pool of professional athelte out there.

But a very strong part of the appeal of the game and the reason many of us cheer for these players is that they do in some way represent the school. I despise people who root for collegiate programs like pro teams, with no regard for the virtues of the university! That's what the pro's are for. I, like many current and former students, root for my team because by golly we believe in our school and will go down swinging! That's the spirit that built the pagentry around the game, the same pagentry that has raised it to the level of success and appreciation it has today. Fight songs, conference and state rivalries, and the ability to carry that rivalry over into other sports.

I'll understand and expect changes that address the money issue (Though I think the problem lies more in coaches salaries than scholarships) and no that someday it will be less pure (amateur) than it is now, but moving whole heartedly to a semi-pro condition would IMO be the wrost thing that could happen to the game and I will fight it with every fiber of my sports-fan being.


If the NFL opened up a minor league and paid players out of high school and college to play there, how does anyone lose?

The players who only care about playing won't have to deal with the education aspect of college ball (and you know they're only taking the minimum classes to stay eligible), the college won't have to deal with players who aren't interested in being student athletes, and there would be more open spaces for kids to play because some of the minor league spaces would go to high school kids.

The tradition of college ball is so strong that they'd still get all the big TV contracts and people would still fill the stadiums to see a slightly lower level of talent.

Who loses?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:21 pm 

Quote:
The tradition of college ball is so strong that they'd still get all the big TV contracts and people would still fill the stadiums to see a slightly lower level of talent.


I don't think they would. It's safe to say half or more of the high school all americans would migrate to the minor's. Those even considering an education would be smart enough to say "This would help me more in plan to make the NFL, and that in turn would secure my future so if I needed to I could go back to school." As that talent pool develops more and more first rounders come from the Orlando Thunder as opposed to the Miami Hurricanes. Interest in the collegiate games, broadcats and publications would wane because you've lost much of the appeal for those watching the transitions of players as they grow into sporting legends. Instead of watching tomorrow's stars, you're watching those who might possibly be stars a few years after a year or more in the minors. One only has to look at college baseball to see the difference. Or look at the number of NFL all-stars who come from the ranks of non-scholarship programs today.

Once that happens, why would 100k people flock to Neyland Stadium? Answer, they wouldn't. As that happens TV ratings and revenue drops, and then the quality coaches will gravitate towards the minor leagues as a better step toward the NFL ranks.

Is your scheme best for those who're thinking pro-ball or bust? Sure, with the exception of the increased physical harm they may suffer pending minor league conditions. But I suspect the level of fan support would be weaker, or at least different. It's un unwritten near-fact that most people want these guys to have to go through college as a pennance for the outrageous sums of money they'll receive as pros. Thus the moderate to mediocre support for minor leagues in the NBA and MLB. If we're going to support some athlete while he's still developing his skills, aptitude and personae, then challenge him with refining his whole self and make a decision about a scholarly environment that may, MAY, enrich more than his wallet. Like I said, I don't root for Tech teams because we have so many all americans or because we're bad-a@#es, I root for them as part of my appreciation for everything the school stands for and the idealogy that the athletes share at least something similar since they came there instead of UGA, Clemson, etc.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 5:10 pm 
People watching college ball because they care about the team, not the players.

They'd watch jr. high players so long as they were in a UTN uniform taking on UFL!

It gives them something to talk about and cheer. It's about the school and the school's team, not the players.


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