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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:34 pm 
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There are several methods teams could be selected for the playoff and this example will use the final regular season coaches poll in USA Today. The top 25 BCS poll could be used as it includes the Coaches Poll, Harris Poll, and computers.

The Top 16 teams will automatically qualify for the playoff in the coaches poll. The Top 12 will receive a bye for week one. 13th through 16th will get a home date with at large teams to be played the first week after conference championship games are completed which is projected to be second week of December.
The four at large spots automatically would go to champions of any division 1 conference that was not ranked in the top 16. This will take care of any future legal issues and make the playoff fair and fun.

After the 20 teams are selected for playoff, there will be 8 more teams for a NIT type football playoff. This would bring the total teams in post season to 28. 28 is more than enough teams to qualify for post season.

Since TCU is ranked 14 in the coaches poll, the four remaining 1A conference champions will receive a play in bid. Arkansas State (Sun Belt), Boise St (WAC), Akron (MAC), Tulsa (Conf USA)

Second week in December games.

13 Alabama host Arkansas State
14 TCU host Akron
15 Texas Tech host Boise State
16 Louisville host Tulsa

Third week in December games. Top 8 host games.

1 Southern Cal host winner of 16 Louisville/Tulsa
2 Texas host winner of 15 Texas Tech/Boise State
3 Penn State host winner of 14 TCU/Akron
4 Ohio State host winner of Alabama/Arkansas St
5 Oregon host 12 Va Tech
5 Notre Dame host 11 West Virginia
7 Auburn host 10 LSU (great rematch)
8 Georgia host 9 Miami Fl

All four winners advance to New Years day Bowls of Fiesta, Rose, Sugar, Orange and newly created Big Apple

The final four national title games would play two weeks latter at a rotating site of the five bowls.

I selected the Big Apple because one of the final four game could most years play on New Years ever. Then we could have three really nice meaningful games on New Years day.

The third and Christmas void week will be filled by the 8 team NIT football taking place using 8 teams with four playing host games and four advancing to a NIT site. For this example will use Orlando to replace one of the missing top tier bowls the Capital One.

Using the remainder of top 25 coaches poll members that did not make the playoff.

17 UCLA host 24 Ga Tech
18 Florida host 23 Ga Tech
19 BC host 22 Clemson (another nice rematch)
20 Wisconsin host 21 Michigan (ditto on rematch)

All four winners of NIT advance to Orlando and play Christmas week with consolation game on Dec 29, Championship NIT game on Dec 30.

Big Apple bowl on Dec 31 winner advances to final four

New years Day we still get 3 great traditional bowls that would take up the entire day.

Final four advances this year to the latter Rose Bowl series as Big Apple, Fiesta, Orange, and Sugar had the elite 8 games.

Semi Final games third week of Jan.
Championship game fourth week of Jan.

Fourth week of January championship game played in the Rose bowl and could work with NFL to have Super Bowl the Sunday after the Saturday College final.

Travel would be very minimized for the fans as most fans would attend the host games. Only travel required would be four the NIT final four, four New Years day games, and Final Four games in rotating bowls.

Every game including the NIT game would have meaning. All Top 25 teams would be included. Every division 1A conference champions would have a right to play on the field for the opportunity to advance to the championship game. Sorry Iowa as top 25 should have included Fresno State and Boise State would not have been included and Iowa would have made the NIT as a top 35 team.

Most teams would end college play by New Years so the argument that kids would miss class time is not valid except for the final four teams. Since many games are at host schools sites, those players would not have to miss any class time.

This plan would make much more money for college football over the current bowl system that includes the BCS. More fans would tune into each game that had some real meaning to fans other than that of the school playing in one of the current lower tier bowls.

A playoff verses the current bowl system and BCS. Is there any question which system would be more exciting.

Please don't give me the argument that regular season would have less meaning as like not being in the top 25 means being at home for the holidays.




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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:20 pm 
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If a playoff were in place, I'd rather see an easy to follow system:

12 teams:

4 First Round Games (8 teams):
Played at nuetral sites of "lesser" bowl games or at home field of higher seed

4 first Round byes for top 4 teams


Inclusion: automatic berths only for current BCS conferences with championship games
12 teams will be selected from a BCS style ranking system; top 12 teams in.

Seeds: based on BCS ranking

2005 Seeds:
1) USC
2) *Texas
3) Penn St.
4) Ohio St.
5) Oregon
6) Notre Dame
7) *Georgia
8) Miami
9) Auburn
10) Virginia Tech
11) West Virginia
12) *Florida St. (ACC championship game winner)


First Round:
#12 FSU @ #5 Oregon (Alternate location: Peach Bowl, Atlanta)
#11 West Virginia @ #6 Notre Dame (Alternate Location: Gator Bowl, Jacksonville)
#10 Virginia Tech @ #7 Georgia (Alternate Location: Liberty Bowl, Memphis)
#9 Autburn @ #8 Miami (Alternate Location: Capitol One Bowl, Orlando)

Second Round:
GM1: Lowest Seed Remaining @ #1 USC (Alternate location: Holiday Bowl, San Deigo)
GM2: Second lowest seed remaining @ #2 Texas (Alternate Location: Cotton Bowl, Dallas)
GM3: Third Lowest Seed remaining @ #3 Penn St. (Alternate Location: Orange Bowl, Miami)
GM4: Fourth Lowest seed @ #4 Ohio St (Alternate Location: Outback Bowl, Tampa)

SemiFinals:
GM1 winner vs GM4 Winner: 2005 Fiesta Bowl, Tempe
GM2 winner vs GM3 winner: 2005 Sugar Bowl, Atlanta

Final: Reamining two teams: 2005 Rose Bowl, Pasadena




That's 4 weeks to get a champion. Want a break after the regular season? Fine. Take a break for finals and then start the playoffs in late December. Final Game would be just 4 weeks away.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:24 pm 


Q1: Would a 1-A playof need to be held at neutral sites?
Size of the playoffs would be a factor here, as would the make up of the participants. Consensus appears to favor a 3-4 rounds (8-16 teams). If every game were held a neutral site, that's a lot of traveling to be asked of 15-30k fans. This might drive down ticket prices and revenue a bit. If you have any games played at host fields, however, that seems like a punishment for the lower half of the field compared to the idea of those teams filling half the stands of a bowl game. "Congratulations on that 9th seed at large bid, Ohio State. You'll be opening AT Auburn!"

Q2: Would the playoffs HAVE to replace the bowls?
If it's a semifinal game, call it a semi final. Don't call it the Rose/Sugar/whatever Bowl. Scheduling and logistics suggests playoff games won't include the full array of parades, visits to touristy attractions, etc. As a team you're focusing on the mission and less the "reward for the season." Get in, win, move on.

That being said, I think that since a football playoff would essentially HAVE to be small then there is room to have both the bowls and some bowls. If anything, this would weed out some of the less glamorous locations/bowls by virtue of having fewer headliners available.

Moreover, by not trying to work the bowls into the playoffs you can involve other cities and locations that might not be top tier in the bowl ranks (Atl, Dallas, SD, Saint Louis) but logistically might have the better means for accomodating a playoff game. Keep in mind in some places you're working around NFL schedules, conventions, etc. Former bowl sites can be accommodated, but they don't have to be, IMO.

Q3: If there is a 1-A playoff, might that attract more schools from AA?
IMHO, you bet. If there is a playoff at the highest level, then you can bet it will feature NCAA management (or heavy involvement) and thereby include some form of general payout to EVERY conference and/or school. Even if the playoff itself doesn't have a rep from every conference, I imagine the revenue sharing structure will mimic that for every other sport.

Thus, for those programs and conferences able to take on the extra scholarships 1-A requires, there'll certainly be more revenue available to them then if they remained in AA. How much is the AA postseason access worth to schools in the CAA? I can't imagine they get $2M out of it, if that. If a 1-A playoff does indeed provide the windfall many suggest, then that might include enough money to entice several more 1-A newbies to join the fray. Especially considering that, once classified as 1-A schools, these programs become more attractive to name programs looking to pay out for more easy home wins. This means there might be the need to address more than just the current 11 conferences and their champions in any playoff scenario.



Some other factors I think a playoff MUST work around:
- Championship to be played no later than first Saturday after NYD. NFL would not look to kindly on having it's own post-season thunder suffer anymore damage.
- Must be a bye-week in December to accomodate exams and/or Christmas. Now, maybe there are plenty of factions suggesting that a national semi-final might be worth playing on Christmas Eve or something, I don't know, but otherwise I know of several schools that woulo (and have) taken arguably weaker postseason bowls just to accomodate this need. Would also ensure some rest for schools that might otherwise be playing for the Nth week in a row.
- Semi-finals should find a way to avoid conflict with New Years Day. The week after Christmas up through New Years Day should provide the type of Bowl week we all envision. Fewer games with better match-ups that are simply a celebration of the sport and reward for the other teams. Possibility exists for 18 bowls to comfortably fit from the 12/17 to 1/1, especially if New Years Eve becomes another large day of games free of NFL competition.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:14 pm 
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Quinn/Gunnerfan, you both make some good points, however, my plan is not complicated and is more exciting and will take care of all legal issues.

A 12 team playoff is like baby steps sort of how the basketball tournament expanded form 32 to 48 and was odd until 64.

Rest assured a 13th ranked Texas or Ohio State would be raising bloody he!l if left out of the playoff.

Agreed with Gunnerfan, my plan does not require any more travel than currently takes place or if a plus one game were to be put into place.

Less face it, the BCS Presidents are holding back for one reason, the other guys will get to participate and share. This is the only obsiticle in the way.

So less just go to 16 team playoff and determine how to have the other conference play in to the thing like the 65 basketball team plays into the tournament.

I personally would not miss the Independence, Music City, Motor City, Emerald City, or any other tier 3 bowl.

It was kind of nice when the Big 10 champion went to Rose and everyone else stayed home. Now we have Minnesota going to Nashville for how many times. At least we should be fair and let those fans go to a warm climate for change.

The minor bowls stink and are only important to the fans of the participating school that really did not achieve much for the year. Minor bowls devalue college football.

Then we got the TV talking heads determine who should play in the title game and that influences the poll voters.

College football is not much different than the Miss America pageant in selecting a winner. Or maybe keeping to sports, how figure skating is won. The difference is you can't have the pageant girls running a marathon (could be fun) to select the winner or have figure skating box at the end to see which is the last standing (Tona may have been on to something).

College football current system for selecting a championship is joke. Just because the number one and two are playing everyone sounds a big relief. Sort of like hurricane system is finally over and we all can stop worry about living on the coast. There will be next year and year after, etc.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:48 pm 
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12 teams is plenty. No reason to include Texas Tech for example.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:17 pm 
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Westwolf, this is why it will take a long time to get a playoff established.

12 is just not enough for a playoff.

I could agree that only conference champions can qualify for a BCS bid and that champion must be in the top 12. This would leave your ACC out of the BCS this year. That is the only way I would agree to a 12 team playoff.

Anyone who proposes 8 is ridiculous. No sport leaves any of its top 10 teams out of the playoff that I am aware of.

Adding a plus one is just a cover your a@s bowl game.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:46 am 
I like 16 (works out well for a bracket, since it's a multiple of 2).

For the big 5 conferences - if they are a 12-team conference with divisions, they can choose to send their two division champions (and eliminate their conference championship game). If less than twelve, they determine a champion somehow, and automatically get their second team in as an at-large if ranked in the top 16.

So 10 teams would be 2 each from the ACC, SEC, Big10, Big12, PAC.

Next invite the top 3 other conference champs (probably BE, MWC, and CUSA/WAC/MAC/SBC?).

Fill out the field with 3 at-large to be selected by a committee, with the priviso that any other undefeated / untied conference champ must be invited.

Let a selection committee seed them, maybe not strictly 1-16, 2-15, 3-14, but with some respect to travel like the basketball regionals.

After each round, re-seed who is left, based strictly on ranking, once we get to 8 go 1-8,2-7,3-6,4-5....

The first round could be in early to mid December. The elite 8 could then play in the 4 major bowls Rose, Orange, Fiesta, Sugar on New Years Day.

Semi-Finals at 2 neutral locations a week later.

Final at a neutral location a week later.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:26 pm 
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Actually more likely than eliminating the conference championship games would be a system that incorporates them. A playoff will change the bowl beauty pageant to a merit system and ND will have to choose between the B10 and BE (most likely B10). The B10 would certainly go to 12 either way (11 is a lousy number). At that point it probably wouldn't take much for the P10 to go to 12 (Utah & somebody else). The champions would go to the quarterfinals in a de-facto first round-BUT, most importantly, the NCAA would not control the revenue, the conferences would. So you would have:
De-facto first round:
P10 championship game
B12 championship game
B10 championship game
SEC championship game
ACC championship game
Official first round would include 6 teams from a combination of other conference champs and wildcards who were NOT division champs in the Big 5):
Seeded Team 1 vs. team 6
Team 2 vs. team 5
Team 3 vs. team 4



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:30 pm 
Lash only last month was defending the BCS instead of a playoff? He does throw out ideas even though he calls the fabulous Lashette a pest. That is so confusing. ???


I am having a tingling sensation. I want to send my Notre Dame blue, green, & gold silkies to some rabid Villanova fan somewhere in NJ. :-*


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:56 pm 
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Quote:
Actually more likely than eliminating the conference championship games would be a system that incorporates them. A playoff will change the bowl beauty pageant to a merit system and ND will have to choose between the B10 and BE (most likely B10). The B10 would certainly go to 12 either way (11 is a lousy number). At that point it probably wouldn't take much for the P10 to go to 12 (Utah & somebody else). The champions would go to the quarterfinals in a de-facto first round-BUT, most importantly, the NCAA would not control the revenue, the conferences would. So you would have:
De-facto first round:
P10 championship game
B12 championship game
B10 championship game
SEC championship game
ACC championship game
Official first round would include 6 teams from a combination of other conference champs and wildcards who were NOT division champs in the Big 5):
Seeded Team 1 vs. team 6
Team 2 vs. team 5
Team 3 vs. team 4



Just think of some championship games that could have taken place this year if most people's realingments came through.

PAC 12 - USC vs. Oregon
Big Ten - Penn State vs. Notre Dame



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:31 pm 
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Quote:
16 has a lot of merit. But I am NOT a fan of having the 6th and 7th place teams in a conference in the big dance. There are way too many teams in the bb tourney. So I think 8 has merit in football. Noone outside the top 8 has a realistic chance of winning in football. And the more teams you add, the more it becomes a crap shoot and the best teams have more of a chance of having a bad day and missing out.

What might work (but would be shot down by the Big 5) as a fair starting point and be more inclusive than 8 would be 10 with play-ins. Top 6 champions of conferences (based on the team-NOT the conference) get slots in New Year bowls. #7 champion and top 3 remaining teams (based on BCS) have play-ins the 2nd week of December at the home field of the higher seed.
Rose bowl winner meets Fiesta winner and Sugar winner meets Orange winner with finals the next week.
This year it would be:
Rose USC-Penn St.
Fiesta Texas vs. TCU
Sugar Georgia vs. Notre Dame/Oregon winner
Orange WVU vs. FSU/Ohio St. winner

The Big 5 wouldn't like this because FSU was one or two conference wins (vs. Nevada and LT) from being Fresno St., not Florida St. with the ACC sitting at home.

A less fair, but still inclusive (and more palatable to Big 5) would have the Big 5 get slots for their champ, with play-ins for the next 3 champs and 3 wildcards. That would result in:
Rose USC-Penn St.
Fiesta Texas vs. WVU/Notre Dame winner
Sugar Georgia vs. TCU/Oregon winner
Orange Florida St. vs. Boise St./Ohio St. winner

I don't think too many people would be upset that Akron, Tulsa and Arkansas St. didn't get in the playoffs.

In any event, expansion and the new I-A qualification rules will likely cut down the number of conferences to between 8 and 10 over the next few years. The powerhouse Sun Belt had 1 (yes ONE) win vs. I-A schools out of conference this year.


Agrred. 12 teams keep sthe emphasis on the regular season. Even with 6 BCS autobids, your only looking at 6 other teams getting in.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:59 pm 
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Quote:
16 has a lot of merit. But I am NOT a fan of having the 6th and 7th place teams in a conference in the big dance. There are way too many teams in the bb tourney. So I think 8 has merit in football. Noone outside the top 8 has a realistic chance of winning in football. And the more teams you add, the more it becomes a crap shoot and the best teams have more of a chance of having a bad day and missing out.

What might work (but would be shot down by the Big 5) as a fair starting point and be more inclusive than 8 would be 10 with play-ins. Top 6 champions of conferences (based on the team-NOT the conference) get slots in New Year bowls. #7 champion and top 3 remaining teams (based on BCS) have play-ins the 2nd week of December at the home field of the higher seed.
Rose bowl winner meets Fiesta winner and Sugar winner meets Orange winner with finals the next week.
This year it would be:
Rose USC-Penn St.
Fiesta Texas vs. TCU
Sugar Georgia vs. Notre Dame/Oregon winner
Orange WVU vs. FSU/Ohio St. winner

The Big 5 wouldn't like this because FSU was one or two conference wins (vs. Nevada and LT) from being Fresno St., not Florida St. with the ACC sitting at home.

A less fair, but still inclusive (and more palatable to Big 5) would have the Big 5 get slots for their champ, with play-ins for the next 3 champs and 3 wildcards. That would result in:
Rose USC-Penn St.
Fiesta Texas vs. WVU/Notre Dame winner
Sugar Georgia vs. TCU/Oregon winner
Orange Florida St. vs. Boise St./Ohio St. winner

I don't think too many people would be upset that Akron, Tulsa and Arkansas St. didn't get in the playoffs.

In any event, expansion and the new I-A qualification rules will likely cut down the number of conferences to between 8 and 10 over the next few years. The powerhouse Sun Belt had 1 (yes ONE) win vs. I-A schools out of conference this year.


Bullet2,

Which schools to do see as dropping down to D-1AA or below? The thread for that has been quiet lately, and the posters on it led me to believe that no school would get the axe. I would be interested to know since IMHO there are several (including almost all of one conference) that should.

In advance: Thanks!

P.S. I will also check the regular thread for schools not making D-1A standards so that this thread can stay on subject.

FBfan


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:25 pm 

Quote:

Quote:
Actually more likely than eliminating the conference championship games would be a system that incorporates them. A playoff will change the bowl beauty pageant to a merit system and ND will have to choose between the B10 and BE (most likely B10). The B10 would certainly go to 12 either way (11 is a lousy number). At that point it probably wouldn't take much for the P10 to go to 12 (Utah & somebody else). The champions would go to the quarterfinals in a de-facto first round-BUT, most importantly, the NCAA would not control the revenue, the conferences would. So you would have:
De-facto first round:
P10 championship game
B12 championship game
B10 championship game
SEC championship game
ACC championship game
Official first round would include 6 teams from a combination of other conference champs and wildcards who were NOT division champs in the Big 5):
Seeded Team 1 vs. team 6
Team 2 vs. team 5
Team 3 vs. team 4



Just think of some championship games that could have taken place this year if most people's realingments came through.

PAC 12 - USC vs. Oregon
Big Ten - Penn State vs. Notre Dame



No, NotreDame is BE. It would be NotreDame vs West Virginia. Remember BE added Army,Navy as new associates with affiliate ND. Add Villanova when they move up and BE already has twelve.They dont want a useless acc championship game.BE thinks outside the box.


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