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 Post subject: "Conference 32"
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:46 am 
The aforementioned "Conference 34" should be listed as "Conference 32." The NCAA Tournament field is currently composed of 34 at-large selections and 31 automatic bids (hence "Conference 32")...note that the 1991 NCAA Tournament field featured 33 automatic bids and three separate play-in games that involved the champions of the Big South, Northeast Conference, MEAC, Patriot League, Southland, and SWAC...

"Conference 32"
Indiana-Purdue-Fort Wayne
North Dakota State
Northern Colorado (Big Sky?)
South Dakota State
Texas A&M-Corpus Christi
Texas-Pan American
Utah Valley State


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 Post subject: "Conference 32"
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:15 pm 
Conference 32--a (very) poor man's Mid-Continent Conference...

Indiana-Purdue-Fort Wayne
Longwood
North Dakota State
Northern Colorado (Big Sky?)
South Dakota State
Texas A&M-Corpus Christi
Texas-Pan American
Utah Valley State


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 Post subject: "Conference 32"
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:15 am 
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Isn't Longwood in Virginia? If I correctly recall the history of my man Jerome Kersey, it is.

I've already mentioned this, and I'm not much for repetition... BCS conferences can handle the travel costs. Everyone else better have something that makes sense. North Dakota to the Rio Grande (almost literally) to Virginia isn't the way to keep costs down.


Last edited by pounder on Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: "Conference 32"
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:02 pm 
What is the point of competing at the D-I level if there is virtually no chance to compete in the NCAA Tournament (and receive the revenue entailed therein)? Out of necessity, several of these programs have already scheduled each other...

2004-2005 "conference" schedule (excludes provisional D-I members North Dakota State and South Dakota State)

Indiana-Purdue-Fort Wayne (8): H--UNC, TAMU-CC, UTPA (2), UVSC; A--TAMU-CC, UTPA, UVSC; (IPFW also hosted Savannah State)

Longwood University (5): H--UNC, TAMU-CC, UVSC; A--UNC, UVSC

University of Northern Colorado (8): H--LU, TAMU-CC, UTPA, UVSC; A--IPFW, LU, UTPA, UVSC

Texas A&M University-Corpus Christi (8): H--IPFW, UTPA, UVSC; A--IPFW, LU, UNC, UTPA, UVSC (TAMU-CC also played two games against Savannah State)

University of Texas-Pan American (9): H--IPFW, UNC, TAMU-CC, UVSC; A--IPFW(2), UNC, TAMU-CC, UVSC

Utah Valley State College (10): H--IPFW, LU, UNC, TAMU-CC, UTPA; A--IPFW, LU, UNC, TAMU-CC, UTPA

Utah Valley State played all "conference" teams home and away...

Texas A&M-Corpus Christi played all "conference" teams, including IPFW, UTPA, and UVSC home and away...

Northern Colorado played all "conference" teams, including Longwood, Texas-Pan American, and Utah Valley State home and away...

Longwood did not play Indiana-Purdue-Fort Wayne or Texas-Pan American...

Indiana-Purdue-Fort Wayne hosted Northern Colorado and also played Texas A&M-Corpus Christi, Texas-Pan American, and Utah Valley State home and away...

Texas-Pan American played Indiana-Purdue-Fort Wayne, Northern Colorado, Texas A&M-Corpus Christi, and Utah Valley State home and away...

There were no games between the provisional D-I members (North Dakota State and South Dakota State) and Indiana-Purdue-Fort Wayne, Longwood, Northern Colorado, Texas A&M-Corpus Christi, Texas-Pan American, Utah Valley State...

California-Davis has already accepted an invitation to the Big West Conference...


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 Post subject: "Conference 32"
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:47 am 
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I don't see any of these schools being accessed a trip to the "dance" by forming a new conference.

Conference 32 will be an outgrowth of a splitting of the Big East basketball and football schools, and then a massive trickle down effect.

The BIG conferences will NOT go for a bunch of nobodies taking another spot at the dance. So, unless there would be agreement for a 2nd play-in game and a field of 66 these schools would have to look for existing conferences for homes.

Longwood has to have its eye on the Big South.
If the Great West football conference flies and is given an auto berth in 1AA then there could be some big changes out west in the Big West, Big Sky, and Mid-Con conferences.

This would help the Dakota schools, No. Colorado, and Utah Valley.

The Mid-Con seems to be a spot for many of these others if the conference desires to go up to 12. I'm surprised Valpo hasn't made a move to a higher level conference yet.
8-)


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 Post subject: "Conference 32"
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:50 am 
If, in fact, C-32 comes to fruition, it would begin play before the breakup of the BIG EAST-16, but its automatic bid to the NCAAs would probably be allocated after Football EAST's (and the institution of another play-in game).

Longwood's presumed interest in the Big South does not appear to be mutual, especially when you consider that recent additions Birmingham-Southern, Elon (now SoCon), and High Point attained D-I membership in conjunction with the Big South. Despite its HBCU status and relative geographic proximity, the MEAC still doesn't appear to be interested in Savannah State, and SSU has been passed over in favor of current D-II member Winston-Salem State.

How would the Great West's acquisition of an automatic berth to the I-AA Playoffs affect the Big Sky, Big West, or Mid-Con? UC-Davis and Cal Poly-San Luis Obispo are in a Big West that has finally returned to its all-California roots after twenty-five years of diversions. The other members of the GWFC are already holding out for Big Sky membersip (Southern Utah has been doing so for twenty years) and the Big Sky has only expressed "official" interest in Northern Colorado.

The Mid-Continent's addition of Southern Utah appears somewhat misleading after the fact (1997) simply because of the membership issues that the Mid-Con was having at the time. Since then, the Mid-Con has become more geographically-centered with one obvious outlier (Southern Utah) and doesn't appear to be in obvious danger of losing its automatic bid to the NCAA Tournament.

In spite of the residual coattails from one Bryce Drew shot, Valparaiso was passed over for Horizon League membership in favor of a football school (Youngstown State) only three years after its improbable Sweet 16 run. Valpo was never a factor in a "pre-apocalyptic" (1982-1994) Mid-Con that featured members such as Cleveland State, Illinois-Chicago, Northern Iowa, Southwest Missouri State, and Wisconsin-Green Bay. Even recent additions to D-I (Wright State and Wisconsin-Milwaukee) were chosen to supplant vacancies created by the departures of Dayton and Marquette from the MCC.

The closest "market" to "represent" Valparaiso (Greater Chicagoland) already features two Horizon League members (UIC and Loyola), and the Horizon League is "market-based" (Chicago, Cleveland, Dayton, Detroit, Green Bay[sic], Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Youngstown).

The C-32 talks are already underway because no one else is really interested in these schools and they have already "crossed the Rubicon" in terms of D-I membership...if you can't be with the one you love, honey, love the one you're with...


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 Post subject: "Conference 32"
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:46 pm 
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I don't believe this new conference would compel the NCAA to grant it an autobid (even a 66th bid) for five years.

I don't believe that these schools could afford the travel long enough to stay together 5 years.

Therefore, I don't think this C-32 is viable. Wake me when the BE splits.


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 Post subject: "Conference 32"
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 1:33 pm 
If Valpo really wanted out of the Mid-Con, and the Horizon turned them down, I suppose they could look at the MVC. There they could form an Eastern Division with ISU, Evansville, and 3 Illinois schools. They do currently play FB in the Pioneer (a non-scholarship league sponsored by the MVC). Maybe they would be more appealing to the MVC membership if they moved to the I-AA gateway Conference.

I agree with Pounder that the travel costs would doom this Conf #32, as listed. No way are all these schools west of the Mississippi traveling to Longwood and / or IUPFW. Even if in 5 years that garnered 1 bid to the BB tourney, that wouldn't be enough to offset the difficulties caused by this nutty geography.

But the other schools could perhaps take a harder look at it..... NDSU, SDSU, (what if North Dakota were to move to 1-AA ?), Utah Valley State, the Texas Schools that don't get invited into the Southland expansion, Centenary and Southern Utah might go for it, if ti were to appear at least as viable as the Mid-con.

I think nothing will happen, until the Southland and Big Sky announce who they will take in. Maybe Cent. Ark, a Texas school, and Northern Colorado. At that point the guys left on the outside looking in will be able to see the picture more clearly.

I suspect some of them at that time will be seeking to 1) join together and form a conference, AND/OR
2) engaging in talks with the Mid-Con regarding joining that conference, AND / OR
3) trying to lure Mid-Con schools to depart and join up with them.

I think the Big Sky and Southland may need to move by June 30th or the effect of any expansion is delayed another 12 months. So this may shake out in the May / June time frame.


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 Post subject: "Conference 32"
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:26 pm 
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My neurons (text designed to be confused with "neurotic") recall an April Big Sky decision target. Mind you, they'd be wise not to act before the NCAA vote on D-1 matters.

A lot could shake out in the space of a few days at the end of April and beginning of May.


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 Post subject: "Conference 32"
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:30 am 
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Quote:


How would the Great West's acquisition of an automatic berth to the I-AA Playoffs affect the Big Sky, Big West, or Mid-Con? UC-Davis and Cal Poly-San Luis Obispo are in a Big West that has finally returned to its all-California roots after twenty-five years of diversions. The other members of the GWFC are already holding out for Big Sky membersip (Southern Utah has been doing so for twenty years) and the Big Sky has only expressed "official" interest in Northern Colorado.



The closest "market" to "represent" Valparaiso (Greater Chicagoland) already features two Horizon League members (UIC and Loyola), and the Horizon League is "market-based" (Chicago, Cleveland, Dayton, Detroit, Green Bay[sic], Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Youngstown).

The C-32 talks are already underway because no one else is really interested in these schools and they have already "crossed the Rubicon" in terms of D-I membership...if you can't be with the one you love, honey, love the one you're with...


Sac. State would leave Big Sky in a minute and go to Big West if the GWFC was viable. The Big West would "probably" take them. They are an old partner of Cal-Davis from way back in the D-II days. Not certain how N.Az would feel, but they would have to be considered. Flagstaff would not be way out of a Big West footprint.

I see this as a natural evolution if the Big Sky considers eastward expansion with the Dakota schools.

I agree fully with Pounder a split BigEast will get an auto long before this group of orphans would even if they had an agreement to band together. All of them have to be pursuing existing conferences. The problem seems to be existing conferences are taking current D-II's who are moving up over them. The lesson here is don't commit to D-I until a conference has assured you of a home.
8-)


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 Post subject: "Conference 32"
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:19 am 
Leaving the Big Sky for the Great West is a catch-22 situation. If CS-Sacramento were to leave the Big Sky for the Big West/GWFC then the Big Sky would replace them with a Big Sky school (i.e. Southern Utah) or schools (i.e. North Dakota State and South Dakota State). The GWFC already lost Saint Mary's before beginning play, and could easily lose Northern Colorado to the Big Sky before it even becomes viable.

Remember when Big South Football was announced as a six-member conference with existing members Charleston Southern, Coastal Carolina (new program), Elon, Liberty, associate member Gardner-Webb (Atlantic Sun), and new member VMI (from SoCon)? Shortly thereafter, the SoCon simply replaced VMI (lost to the Big South) with Elon (from the Big South).

Undoubtedly Big Sky membership is preferable for the non-California schools of the GWFC than the combination of Great West Football and "C-32" (D-I Independent) basketball...affiliation with the Mid-Con through the GWFC could lead to eventual Mid-Con membership for UNC, NDSU, and SDSU, but even then, Big Sky membership would remain preferable...

After years of expanding further and further east, the Big West has finally returned to its PCAA/all-California roots...Northern Arizona or Portland State don't seem like realistic propositions for them...

Agreed that the schools of C-32 should have learned a lesson from the case studies of Baltimore, Morris Brown, Northeastern Illinois, Savannah State, and Utica and probably remained D-II (especially NDSU/SDSU)...


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