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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:09 am 
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While there is MUCH less contriversy about who should get into the Big Dance than who should get into the BCS, I am sure some of you have suggestions. To all of you, this threads for you!

To start off, the field of 64 is really the field of 65 with 1 "play-in" game. What happens if the Big East splits or the conference 32 ever becomes a reality. Would we have 2 play-in games? Should we? Should the field require an RPI of 70 or better? Should the RPI be changed? Should the membership of the "back room" that makes the decision be changed?

FBfan

P.S. to the moderators: On the prediction thread, I posted a question that would probably be better here. That quesion (#58) and the 2 answers (#59 and #60), probably belong on this thread. If it is too much trouble, I understand.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:40 am 

What I believe will happen in the next year or 2 we will see the addition of another "play-in" game...and eventually I think we will see 4 "play-in" games, 1 in each region...opening the field to 68 teams...this could end much of the discussion of quality teams not getting in...


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:48 am 
It is my understanding that there were three separate play-in games which took place prior to the 1991 NCAA Tournament, with the opponents selected prior to "Selection Sunday." These games featured the champions of the Big South, Mid-Eastern Athletic, Northeast, Patriot League, Southland, and Southwestern Athletic...

The Big South was in its first year of 6/5 compliance;

The Patriot League was in its first year of existence (but would not be in 6/5 compliance until 1995);

The Southland Conference was not in 6/5 compliance;

The MEAC had not yet won an NCAA Tournament game;

The NEC and SWAC had not yet won NCAA Tournament games that weren't generally considered "play-ins" (pre-1985);

As there were 33 different conferences in D-I for the 1990-1991 season, presumably all of their champions were eligible for an automatic bid, with six conferences relegated to the play-in games...

It appears that...

The 1992 NCAA Tournament featured 30 automatic bids (subtract East Coast, Metro; American South and Sun Belt merge)...

The 1993 NCAA Tournament featured 30 automatic bids (subtract Trans-America/Atlantic Sun; add Metro)...

The 1994 NCAA Tournament featured 30 automatic bids (subtract MCC/Horizon; add Trans-America/Atlantic Sun)...

The 1995 NCAA Tournament featured 29 automatic bids (subtract Big South, Mid-Continent; add MCC/Horizon)...

The 1996 NCAA Tournament featured 31 automatic bids (add Big South, Mid-Continent; Metro transferred to C-USA);

The NCAA Tournament featured 30 automatic bids (1997-2000)...

It appears that the 1996 NCAA Tournament featured 31 automatic bids but featured no play-in game...perhaps there were "only" 33 at-large bids to the tourney that year because their was an understanding that the arrangement was only temporary, with the Southwest Conference folding after the 1995-1996 season...

Ironically, the long-term affects of the Mountain West's secession from the WAC on the NCAA Tournament field will not be felt by the Mountain West...

Participants in the current incarnation of the play-in game (2001-) have hailed from seven conferences: the Big South (2001, 2003); MAAC (2002); Mid-Continent (2005); MEAC (2004); Patriot League (2004); Southland (2001); and SWAC (2002-2003, 2005)...note that five of these seven conferences were represented in the 1991 play-in games...note that the representatives from the MAAC (Siena, 2002) and Mid-Continent (Oakland, 2005) both won the play-in game with a losing record...

While the NEC hasn't posted a win in the 64-team tournament (1985-) they have not (yet) suffered the igominy of appearing in the current incarnation of the play-in game...the Big South and Patriot League still haven't won games in the 64-team tournament, and the Southland hasn't won a game in the 64-team tournament since 1985 (Louisiana Tech, a 5-seed featuring Karl Malone, advanced to the Sweet 16, taking regional runner-up Oklahoma to overtime)...

In the 64-team tournament (1985-) the SWAC has posted one win (1993) and the MEAC two (1997, 2001)...


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:03 pm 
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My tweaks actually are all related to TV and host sites.

The games would be scheduled so that CBS can show 5 games per day during the first and second rounds. Game 1 would tip off just after Noon EST (9 AM PST), followed by Game 2 just after 2:30 PM EST (11:30 AM PST). Game 3 would tip off at 7:00 PM EST (4:00 PM PST), and then Game 4 would tip off after Game 3 around 9:30 PM EST (6:30 PM PST). The Eastern, Central, and Mountain time zones would then get their late local news. The Pacific time zone would get the CBS evening news and a 5-minute local newscast to keep them in sync with the rest of the country. At 12:35 AM EST (9:35 PM PST), the fifth game would tip off. Pacific time zone vierwers would get a 30-minute local newscast at 12:00 AM. Any pre-empted local programming could air before Game 1, between the double headers, or after Game 5.

Eastern and Central viewers would still see the CBS Evening News at their normal time and still get their 6:00 or 5:00 local news, and Mountain Time Zone viewers would see the CBS evening news at 4:30. Western affiliates woud have to decide on when to air the local news, either after Game 2 or before Game 3.

The one requirement for this is that there would have to be a host site in the Pacific Time Zone each day that this is used. This could be accomplished by using 8 sites like the NCAA does now, or by using 16 sites. Using 16 sites would certainly give the NCAA more options in placing the top seeded teams, and would allow for more games to start on schedule. The drawback is that there wouldn't be the benefits of the quadruple-headers used now with only two games per site on Thursday or Friday.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:23 pm 
The NCAA might want to look at shifting the geographic parameters of its "regions"...it seems as though the West has always been overrepresented in terms of host locations for the first-second rounds...perhaps Texas, and to a lesser extent Kansas (City) and Oklahoma should be considered in the same "region" as Boise and Ogden...

Perhaps limit the area west of the Rockies to one first-secound round site per year with the "other" being in Denver, Kansas (City), Oklahoma, or Texas...especially with the emphasis on the "pod" system, it seems like certain conferences (e.g. Big Sky, Big West, Mountain West, West Coast, WAC) are often due an unfair advantage simply because of the geography...


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:39 pm 
......and no teams from the State of Indiana in the tournament? ummhhh


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:30 pm 
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Quote:
The NCAA might want to look at shifting the geographic parameters of its "regions"...it seems as though the West has always been overrepresented in terms of host locations for the first-second rounds...perhaps Texas, and to a lesser extent Kansas (City) and Oklahoma should be considered in the same "region" as Boise and Ogden...


How would you have liked this set up for this year's tournament?

Indianapolis Illinois-FDU, Texas-Nevada
Cleveland UK-EKU, Cincinnati-Iowa
Boise Washington-Montana, Pacific-Pittsburgh
Tucson Oklahoma-Niagra, Utah-UTEP
Jacksonville GT-GW, Florida-Ohio
Anaheim Arizona-Utah State, LSU-UAB
Philadelphia BC-Penn, Alabama-UWM
Tuscaloosa Wake-UTC, Crieghton-WVU

Oklahoma City Okla State-SE LA, SIU-St. Mary's
Nashville Louisville-ULL, Villanova-New Mexico
Worcester Michigan State-ODU, Syracuse-Vermont
Charlotte UNC-Oakland, Minnesota-Iowa State
Minneapolis Wisconsin-UNI, Kansas-Bucknell
Baton Rouge UConn-UCF, Charlotte-NCSU
Baltimore Duke-DSU, Stanford-Mississippi State
Portland Gonzaga-Wintrhop, UCLA-Texas Tech


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:22 am 
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The Pacific and Mountain time zones represent 20% of the American population, and that is GROWING. Mr. Ouija sounds bent from a team of his having to make a trip out here in the past. Us Westies ALWAYS have to make those trips east if we want any pub. You're permitted to imagine my cursing.

I'd swear to you that there are more sub-regionals played in the Mountain Time Zone (5% of the American population) than in the Pacific (15%). Boise, Salt Lake, an Arizona location, and to some degree Albuquerque are on regular rotation. Meanwhile, Seattle and California locations see the tournament sproadically at best (at least since the Kingdome was imploded). Go figure.

BTW, Mr. Yeager, you won't see Portland on the docket anytime soon. The NCAA chooses to punish the state of Oregon for the NFL-based lottery game by not putting any men's tournament games there. Of course, when it comes to at least the perception of making money for the women's tournament, they don't hesitate to put games in Eugene or Portland, but I don't recall any recent quotes from NCAA personnel claiming NOT to be hypocritical.


Last edited by pounder on Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:45 am 
What percentage of D-I programs and their respective conferences are located in the Mountain/Pacific Time Zones or in Arizona? What percentage of the 1-4 seeds in this year's NCAA Tournament?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:07 pm 
As for the second question, specifically regarding this year's tournament, Washington is a "1", and Arizona and Gonzaga are both "2s"...the next closest high-seeded teams are Oklahoma State (2) and Oklahoma (3)...the next highest seed within the current "West" parameters is Utah (6)

2004: Stanford was a "1" and Gonzaga a "2"...the next closest high-seeded teams were Oklahoma State (2), Texas (3), and Kansas (4)...the next highest seeds within the parameters: Washington (8) and Arizona (9)...

2003: Arizona was a "1" and Stanford a "4"...the next closest high-seeded teams were Oklahoma (1), Texas (1), and Kansas (2)...within the parameters: Oregon (8) and California (8)...

2002: Oregon was a "2," Arizona a "3," and USC a "4"...next closest high-seeded teams were Kansas (2) and Oklahoma (2)...within the parameters: Gonzaga (6)...

Not to say that non-Western teams haven't unduly benefited from the "pod system" obvious examples include Southern Illinois (11) beating Texas Tech (6) and then Georgia (3) in Chicago (2002) and Texas (6) beating Mississippi State (3) in Dallas...in 2004, Pittsburgh (3) beat Wisconsin (6) in Milwaukee...

Duly noted that UCLA (5) got jobbed in 1994 ("pre-pod") by having to face Tulsa (12) in Oklahoma City...



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:37 am 
Approximately 17.7% of NCAA D-I basketball programs are located in the Mountain/Pacific Time Zones, Arizona, or Hawaii. Mountain/Pacific-based conferences (Big Sky, Big West, Mountain West, Pac-10, West Coast, WAC) make up approximately 19.4% of D-I basketball conferences, and the collective membership of these conferences represent approximately 16.5% of D-I (includes CST members Louisiana Tech and Texas Christian; excludes MST members Colorado, Denver, Northern Colorado, Southern Utah, Texas-El Paso, Utah Valley State)...

Western portions of Kansas, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Texas are in the Mountain Time Zone...

Prior to the pronouncement of the "pod era" (2002-present), the two "West" sites fed into a (necessary) "West" regional. Since that time, the regional distinctions became blurred (2002-2003) and finally disavowed completely (2004), however, the NCAA still selects its future first-second round sites using the basic pre-existing geographic parameters of the pre-pod era (two sites per "region") and continues the charade of a practice which it has officially disavowed...

Pre-2002, if the best four teams from a given region (West) were members of the same conference (i.e. Pac-10), they needed to be shipped across the country to avoid possible matchups that could have preceded a regional final; the inherent nature of the pod system is to avoid this "problem" and the geography of site location simply needs to be re-evaluated and altered. Note that the presence of the pod system resulted in the changing of the "regional" monikers from geographic direction (e.g. East, West) to annual site (e.g. Syracuse, Albuquerque) in a move that might slightly hinder future remembrances of NCAA Tournament moments, as the names change annually...


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:16 am 
http://www.ncaasports.com/basketball/mens/schedules/divi

2006: Salt Lake City and San Diego
2007: Sacramento and Spokane
2008: Anaheim and Denver

It is also probably worth noting that the "opening round" (PLAY-IN GAME) is slated through at least 2011...is any conference losing its automatic bid in the aftermath of the latest round of realignment?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:38 pm 
The game is in Dayton because every play-in game ever played has been played in Dayton (check the 52 and 53 team barckets). Dayton has a good basketball tradition, a great arena, and they enjoy hosting the games. It also helps them practice hosting first & second rounds (which they do frequently).


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:19 am 
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My God, there's a hint of sense in Oregon!

http://www.oregonlive.com/sportsflash/local/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/1112599358257720.xml&storylist=orsports

When this came up before, there was no provision to replace the money that the smaller schools (PSU, Western, Eastern, Southern, and Tech) frankly depend on. Of course, this still has to pass, and there are those with the state who want to keep their cut of this game.


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