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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:25 pm 
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BePcr07 wrote:
I don't hate the idea of non-football members, but only if they don't have football (with the exception of Notre Dame or BYU but only to have even conferences). I'd try to find another conference for UTA and UALR before placing them into an FBS conference as a non-football member. The WAC would be a potential home, but it's so weak and unstable that I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole. The Southland Conference would an obvious favorite, but it already has 14 members, so I'm not sure they'd be comfortable adding 2 more schools. The only other conference I could even see would be the Ohio Valley. While they are not within the OVC footprint, adding UALR and UTA simultaneously would make Texas contiguous by way of Arkansas. But the OVC has 12 members already. If the schools were to be picked up as non-football members by FBS conferences, UALR would really only be able to find a home in CUSA. UTA would probably drop into CUSA but could be considered by the MT WEST.


Logic ideal point you've shared BePrc. Now how would you group the divisions and sections (or pods) within each conference?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:59 pm 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Logic ideal point you've shared BePrc. Now how would you group the divisions and sections (or pods) within each conference?


Pods

PAC16:
Northwest: Washington, Washington St, Oregon, Oregon St
California: California, Stanford, USC, UCLA
Four Corners: Arizona, Arizona St, Colorado, Utah
Southwest: Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St

BIG SIXTEEN (B1G or B16):
Plains: Nebraska, Missouri, Kansas, Iowa
Lake West: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern
Midwest: Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan St
East: Ohio St, Penn St, Maryland, Rutgers

SEC:
Gulf West: Texas A&M, Baylor, LSU, Arkansas
Dixie: Mississippi, Mississippi St, Alabama, Auburn
Southeast: Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Mid-Atlantic: Kentucky, South Carolina, North Carolina St, Virginia Tech

ACC:
Northeast: Connecticut, Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh
Southern: Miami (FL), Florida St, Georgia Tech, Clemson
Carolina: North Carolina, Duke, Wake Forest, Virginia
Metro: Louisville, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Memphis

AAC:
Southwest: SMU, Houston, Tulane, UAB
Eastern: UCF, USF, East Carolina, Charlotte
Patriot: Army, Navy, Temple, Massachusetts
Central: Iowa St, Kansas St, Tulsa, TCU

MT WEST:
Pacific: Hawaii, San Diego St, Fresno St, San Jose St
West: UNLV, UTEP, New Mexico, New Mexico St
Mountain: Utah St, Colorado St, Air Force, Wyoming
Northern: Idaho, Boise St, Nevada, BYU

MAC:
Mid-South: Marshall, Middle Tennessee St, Western Kentucky, Old Dominion
Great Lakes: Northern Illinois, Ball St, Toledo, Bowling Green St
Ohio: Ohio, Miami (OH), Kent St, Akron
Northern Lakes: Western Michigan, Eastern Michigan, Central Michigan, Buffalo

CUSA:
Texas: UTSA, North Texas, Rice, Texas St
Southern: Louisiana Tech, UL-Lafayette, UL-Monroe, Arkansas St
Blue Grass: Southern Miss, South Alabama, Troy, Appalachian St
Deep South: FAU, FIU, Georgia St, Georgia Southern

Ind.: Notre Dame

Scheduling: play all 3 teams in own pod, play 2 teams in each other pod (home/away with every team in conference every 4 years), 3 non-conference games; divisions: rotate pods every year to form 2 8-team divisions and best team from both 2-pod divisions meet in conference championship


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:38 am 
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BePcr: Interesting format of pods you posted. But what would happen if it's grouped into divisions? You know find two pods to make a permanent division (for geographic and rivalry reasons)? Here's a sample formula:

Conference: Pac-16

Division A:

Pod A-1: Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State
Pod A-2: California, Stanford, UCLA, USC

Division B:

Pod B-1: Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah
Pod B-2: Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State

BePcr07 wrote:
Scheduling: play all 3 teams in own pod, play 2 teams in each other pod (home/away with every team in conference every 4 years), 3 non-conference games; divisions: rotate pods every year to form 2 8-team divisions and best team from both 2-pod divisions meet in conference championship


And like your scheduling format. But I have my own (based on that formula): each team plays all 3 teams within their own pod within the same division, plus playing all 4 teams of other pod within that same division; and then 2 games against non-division teams (one on each pod on that basis, with home/away basis for every 8 years; which is nearly similar to the current NFL scheduling format, minus the round robin part on same pod and the other part where teams face other pods based on standings).:

Here's a sample team: I'll choose Stanford (this year's Pac-12 tournament bowl champions).

a.) They'll face intra-pod intra-division teams in Cal, USC and UCLA every year on a home/away basis for 2 years.
b.) Their non-pod intra-division team are Oregon, Oregon St., Washington and Washington St.
c.) Their non-division teams will be the following: Arizona and Texas on Year 1; Arizona St. and Texas Tech on Year 2; Colorado and Oklahoma on Year 3; and Utah and Oklahoma St. (each will face once for every 4 years, with home/away basis for every 8 years).

Lemme know your thoughts.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:42 am 
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BePcr07 wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Logic ideal point you've shared BePrc. Now how would you group the divisions and sections (or pods) within each conference?


Pods

PAC16:
Northwest: Washington, Washington St, Oregon, Oregon St
California: California, Stanford, USC, UCLA
Four Corners: Arizona, Arizona St, Colorado, Utah
Southwest: Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St

BIG SIXTEEN (B1G or B16):
Plains: Nebraska, Missouri, Kansas, Iowa
Lake West: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern
Midwest: Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan St
East: Ohio St, Penn St, Maryland, Rutgers

SEC:
Gulf West: Texas A&M, Baylor, LSU, Arkansas
Dixie: Mississippi, Mississippi St, Alabama, Auburn
Southeast: Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Mid-Atlantic: Kentucky, South Carolina, North Carolina St, Virginia Tech

ACC:
Northeast: Connecticut, Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh
Southern: Miami (FL), Florida St, Georgia Tech, Clemson
Carolina: North Carolina, Duke, Wake Forest, Virginia
Metro: Louisville, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Memphis

AAC:
Southwest: SMU, Houston, Tulane, UAB
Eastern: UCF, USF, East Carolina, Charlotte
Patriot: Army, Navy, Temple, Massachusetts
Central: Iowa St, Kansas St, Tulsa, TCU

MT WEST:
Pacific: Hawaii, San Diego St, Fresno St, San Jose St
West: UNLV, UTEP, New Mexico, New Mexico St
Mountain: Utah St, Colorado St, Air Force, Wyoming
Northern: Idaho, Boise St, Nevada, BYU

MAC:
Mid-South: Marshall, Middle Tennessee St, Western Kentucky, Old Dominion
Great Lakes: Northern Illinois, Ball St, Toledo, Bowling Green St
Ohio: Ohio, Miami (OH), Kent St, Akron
Northern Lakes: Western Michigan, Eastern Michigan, Central Michigan, Buffalo

CUSA:
Texas: UTSA, North Texas, Rice, Texas St
Southern: Louisiana Tech, UL-Lafayette, UL-Monroe, Arkansas St
Blue Grass: Southern Miss, South Alabama, Troy, Appalachian St
Deep South: FAU, FIU, Georgia St, Georgia Southern

Ind.: Notre Dame

Scheduling: play all 3 teams in own pod, play 2 teams in each other pod (home/away with every team in conference every 4 years), 3 non-conference games; divisions: rotate pods every year to form 2 8-team divisions and best team from both 2-pod divisions meet in conference championship


I know this is pretty much playing fantasy GM...
Though, I don't understand why y'all are blowing up the Big 12 and keeping conferences like the AAC, CUSA and the Mt. West?
The schools in the Big 12 are so much stronger than these other conferences. Why dissolve a big 5 conference for a weak 5 conference?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:46 am 
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mozilla wrote:
I know this is pretty much playing fantasy GM...
Though, I don't understand why y'all are blowing up the Big 12 and keeping conferences like the AAC, CUSA and the Mt. West?
The schools in the Big 12 are so much stronger than these other conferences. Why dissolve a big 5 conference for a weak 5 conference?


Like you said, it's a fantasy realignment. But then again, how would you group some expansion for the Big 12 to have 16 members?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:48 pm 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
mozilla wrote:
I know this is pretty much playing fantasy GM...
Though, I don't understand why y'all are blowing up the Big 12 and keeping conferences like the AAC, CUSA and the Mt. West?
The schools in the Big 12 are so much stronger than these other conferences. Why dissolve a big 5 conference for a weak 5 conference?


Like you said, it's a fantasy realignment. But then again, how would you group some expansion for the Big 12 to have 16 members?


Mozilla has a valid question! I would assume other people are using the same process of logic that I use, so here it is. The XII is the smallest of the FBS with 10 members. The XII has recently lost 4 big name founding members (3 former Big 8 in Nebraska, Colorado, and Missouri, and 1 former Southwest in Texas A&M) while expanding with up-and-coming TCU and distant West Virginia. If you look at the geography of the 10 members of the XII, they share footprints within the same regions as the SEC, B1G, and ACC. They also hold the arguably best options for the PAC-12 in expansion. None of the other Power 5 conferences would be great options to break apart except maybe the ACC but that doesn't help the PAC-12 get members they would actually be okay with having. Looking at the Group of 5 conferences, none of them hold viable options for every major conference to create 16 team conferences. The MT WEST would only be available for the PAC-12 and XII, but do they really have 10 schools those 2 conferences would want? CUSA is now Sun Belt 2.0, and does it really have schools the XII, SEC, and ACC would expand with? The MAC doesn't have enough quality teams for any power conference. The AAC has strong members, but not enough to fulfill the needs of the major conferences for 16 members. This leaves us with the XII. I have always been a fan of the XII, but I don't see them lasting for another 10 years despite whatever contracts they may have.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:04 pm 
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Having 129 schools fight for one trophy seems a bit odd. I believe there...at least, needs to be two trophies...one for Private schools...and one for Public schools. At the end of the season...Private schools bunch together for their playoff....and Public schools do the same.

If the plan includes dropping one or two conferences....then why not scrap all the conferences...and set this up regionally where conferences have all types of schools, evenly divided among themselves? Also, drop the MAC schools from the list. Probably drop most of the SBC off the list. Pair the list down to 96 schools. The 35 schools being dropped will help the FBS schools have better competition, while not overcrowding the main body of schools.

96 schools will be much easier to separate into regional conferences. With 96 schools...they can be divided into 6 or 8 conferences...depending how many schools are wanted in the conferences(12 or 16).


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:05 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
Having 129 schools fight for one trophy seems a bit odd. I believe there...at least, needs to be two trophies...one for Private schools...and one for Public schools. At the end of the season...Private schools bunch together for their playoff....and Public schools do the same.


This would be a decent idea except there are too many "powerhouse" private schools that would not go for it and actually have some say in the world of college football including but not limited to USC, Stanford, Miami (FL), and Notre Dame.

mozilla wrote:
If the plan includes dropping one or two conferences....then why not scrap all the conferences...and set this up regionally where conferences have all types of schools, evenly divided among themselves? Also, drop the MAC schools from the list. Probably drop most of the SBC off the list. Pair the list down to 96 schools. The 35 schools being dropped will help the FBS schools have better competition, while not overcrowding the main body of schools.


I think this is a great idea in theory! I just don't see the power conference schools being okay with it. Since the schools give power to the NCAA and their respective conferences, they can easily take it away. As far as dropping 35 schools, I would personally like to see the list cut down about 80 left (dropping 49 from the current 129). The problem I see is that a few Group of 5 conference schools hold a lot of history in football that would not be easily overlooked when cutting down the FBS. For 80: I would completely cut the Sun Belt and most of the CUSA, MAC, MT WEST, and AAC. I would have to think about it and write it out to be sure of the specific schools I would keep and cut. But you and I think a lot alike on this point!!!

mozilla wrote:
96 schools will be much easier to separate into regional conferences. With 96 schools...they can be divided into 6 or 8 conferences...depending how many schools are wanted in the conferences(12 or 16).


I really like your regional conferences idea with a limited amount of schools. It would be best for the schools and the competition. How would you do a 96-school set-up?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:26 pm 
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Thanks for your thoughts.

A few years back...I was playing with the idea of 11 conferences with 9 schools each. Thinking mostly of regionality and round robin play. Everybody playin' everybody. But, as every conference grew...I kind of scrapped it.

I hadn't looked at the 96 team set up. I tried working with the 129 school version...without keeping current conferences intact...but, once I got past the western teams...it turned into a nightmare to keep teams brokendown using one philosophy. Anyway...it would have taken longer than I wanted to spend.

I'll put some thought into 96.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:56 pm 
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Ok...think I got this 96 team bracket ready:

1. Washington, WSU, Boise St., BYU
2. Oregon, OSU, Utah, Utah St.

3. Colorado, CSU, AirForce, Wyoming
4. New Mexico, NMSU, UTEP, Arizona State

5. Cal, Stanford, Fresno St, SD State
6. USC, UCLA, SJSU, Arizona

7. Kansas, K State, Nebraska, Iowa State
8. Iowa, Missouri, Minnesota, Wisconsin

9. Oklahoma, N. Texas, Tx Tech, Tulsa
10. Ok State, TCU, Texas, Rice

11. UTSA, Houston, A&M, Louisiana
12. LSU, Tulane, S. Miss, UAB

13. SMU, Baylor, La Tech, Arkansas
14. Ark State, Miss., MSU, Alabama

15. Auburn, FSU, USF, FAU
16. Miami, UCF, Georgia Tech, Clemson

17. Florida, Georgia, Vandy, Md Tenn.
18. Tenn, S. Carolina, E. Carolina, N. Carolina

19. Notre Dame, Northwestern, Michigan, MSU
20. Illinois, Indiana, Louisville, Kentucky

21. Ohio State, Cincy, Marshall, W. Virginia
22. Virginia, V Tech, Maryland, Duke

23. Pitt, Penn St., Army, Navy
24. Syracuse, UConn, BC, Rutgers


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:08 am 
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mozilla wrote:
Ok...think I got this 96 team bracket ready:

1. Washington, WSU, Boise St., BYU
2. Oregon, OSU, Utah, Utah St.

3. Colorado, CSU, AirForce, Wyoming
4. New Mexico, NMSU, UTEP, Arizona State

5. Cal, Stanford, Fresno St, SD State
6. USC, UCLA, SJSU, Arizona

7. Kansas, K State, Nebraska, Iowa State
8. Iowa, Missouri, Minnesota, Wisconsin

9. Oklahoma, N. Texas, Tx Tech, Tulsa
10. Ok State, TCU, Texas, Rice

11. UTSA, Houston, A&M, Louisiana
12. LSU, Tulane, S. Miss, UAB

13. SMU, Baylor, La Tech, Arkansas
14. Ark State, Miss., MSU, Alabama

15. Auburn, FSU, USF, FAU
16. Miami, UCF, Georgia Tech, Clemson

17. Florida, Georgia, Vandy, Md Tenn.
18. Tenn, S. Carolina, E. Carolina, N. Carolina

19. Notre Dame, Northwestern, Michigan, MSU
20. Illinois, Indiana, Louisville, Kentucky

21. Ohio State, Cincy, Marshall, W. Virginia
22. Virginia, V Tech, Maryland, Duke

23. Pitt, Penn St., Army, Navy
24. Syracuse, UConn, BC, Rutgers


The first thing I wanted to do when I saw this was see which schools you didn't include: Idaho, Nevada, UNLV, Hawaii, Texas St, one of the Louisianas (you put just Louisiana - I assume you intended to add Lafayette? which means you left out Monroe), South Alabama, Troy, Florida International, Georgia St, Georgia Southern, Memphis, Wake Forest, North Carolina St, Appalachian St, Charlotte, Purdue, Ball St, Northern Illinois, Western Michigan, Central Michigan, Eastern Michigan, Western Kentucky, Toledo, Bowling Green St, Akron, Kent St, Ohio, Miami (OH), Old Dominion, Temple, Massachusetts, Buffalo

Any reason for some of these absences? If I made a mistake, let me know!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:05 am 
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I decided to make my 96. I kept several schools many people would probably get rid of, but I just couldn't due to their history with other major programs, lack of programs in certain regions, historic success, and recent success. I drew up 6 16-team conferences.

PAC16:
Washington, Washington Sst, Oregon, Oregon St
California, Stanford, USC, UCLA
Arizona, Arizona St, Utah, Colorado
Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St

MT WEST:
San Jose St, San Diego St, Fresno St, Hawaii
BYU, Boise St, Utah St, Nevada
Wyoming, Colorado St, Air Force, UNLV
New Mexico, Rice, TCU, SMU

SEC:
Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
South Carolina, Kentucky, North Carolina St, Virginia Tech
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi St
LSU, Arkansas, Texas A&M, Baylor

ACC:
Miami (FL), Florida St, Georgia Tech, Clemson
North Carolina, Duke, Wake Forest, Virginia
Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis, Notre Dame
Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Boston College, Syracuse

B1G:
Nebraska, Iowa, Missouri, Kansas
Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern
Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan St
Ohio St, Penn St, Maryland, Rutgers

AAC:
Houston, Tulane, Southern Miss, UAB
UCF, USF, East Carolina, Marshall
Kansas St, Iowa St, Northern Illinois, Tulsa
Navy, Army, Connecticut, Temple


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:23 am 
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BePcr07 wrote:
mozilla wrote:
Ok...think I got this 96 team bracket ready:

1. Washington, WSU, Boise St., BYU
2. Oregon, OSU, Utah, Utah St.

3. Colorado, CSU, AirForce, Wyoming
4. New Mexico, NMSU, UTEP, Arizona State

5. Cal, Stanford, Fresno St, SD State
6. USC, UCLA, SJSU, Arizona

7. Kansas, K State, Nebraska, Iowa State
8. Iowa, Missouri, Minnesota, Wisconsin

9. Oklahoma, N. Texas, Tx Tech, Tulsa
10. Ok State, TCU, Texas, Rice

11. UTSA, Houston, A&M, Louisiana
12. LSU, Tulane, S. Miss, UAB

13. SMU, Baylor, La Tech, Arkansas
14. Ark State, Miss., MSU, Alabama

15. Auburn, FSU, USF, FAU
16. Miami, UCF, Georgia Tech, Clemson

17. Florida, Georgia, Vandy, Md Tenn.
18. Tenn, S. Carolina, E. Carolina, N. Carolina

19. Notre Dame, Northwestern, Michigan, MSU
20. Illinois, Indiana, Louisville, Kentucky

21. Ohio State, Cincy, Marshall, W. Virginia
22. Virginia, V Tech, Maryland, Duke

23. Pitt, Penn St., Army, Navy
24. Syracuse, UConn, BC, Rutgers


The first thing I wanted to do when I saw this was see which schools you didn't include: Idaho, Nevada, UNLV, Hawaii, Texas St, one of the Louisianas (you put just Louisiana - I assume you intended to add Lafayette? which means you left out Monroe), South Alabama, Troy, Florida International, Georgia St, Georgia Southern, Memphis, Wake Forest, North Carolina St, Appalachian St, Charlotte, Purdue, Ball St, Northern Illinois, Western Michigan, Central Michigan, Eastern Michigan, Western Kentucky, Toledo, Bowling Green St, Akron, Kent St, Ohio, Miami (OH), Old Dominion, Temple, Massachusetts, Buffalo

Any reason for some of these absences? If I made a mistake, let me know!


Well, I didn't mean to leave Purdue off....that was my bad. But, I guess I would have to pull some other school in it's place. Not sure who.
The MAC schools...they just don't bring much to the table. I mean...when was the first or last time any of them were up for the number 1 spot?

Anyway...this was my first try at 96. It was tough to get there...for sure. Lot's of fun programs get pushed out. But, somebody has to.

Maybe...if the level right below this group had a nice championship....it wouldn't be so bad to not be in the 96??

One thing I tried to do with my 96 was.....mix the programs together. So that, there weren't conferences that were 12 deep in super star programs. And on the other hand....there weren't conferences stacked with crappy programs. I also kept programs in their region to alleviate so much travel.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:17 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
Well, I didn't mean to leave Purdue off....that was my bad. But, I guess I would have to pull some other school in it's place. Not sure who.
The MAC schools...they just don't bring much to the table. I mean...when was the first or last time any of them were up for the number 1 spot?

Anyway...this was my first try at 96. It was tough to get there...for sure. Lot's of fun programs get pushed out. But, somebody has to.

Maybe...if the level right below this group had a nice championship....it wouldn't be so bad to not be in the 96??

One thing I tried to do with my 96 was.....mix the programs together. So that, there weren't conferences that were 12 deep in super star programs. And on the other hand....there weren't conferences stacked with crappy programs. I also kept programs in their region to alleviate so much travel.


I assumed Purdue was an honest mistake as well as perhaps North Carolina St and Wake Forest.

MAC teams have made Top 10 noise a couple times in history, but not much.

I would love to see a three-tiered division 1 football system with 3 championships (I-A, I-AA, I-AAA or FB(owl)S, FP(layoff)S, FC(hampionship)S)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:39 pm 
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Don't want to break the conversation between Mozilla and BePrc; but since this is the ideal forum for dream conference alignment, I was wondering. How about if the Pac-12 plans to expand 4 more teams that are not from the Big 12??

Pac-16:

Division A-1: Oregon, Oregon St., Washington, Washington St.
Division A-2: California, Stanford, UCLA, USC
Division B-1: Arizona, Arizona St., Colorado, Utah
Division B-2: Boise St., Nevada, UNLV, Fresno St. or BYU

P.S.: Back to the 96-team format though, do you believe that the MAC should be FCS material?

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