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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2003 5:45 pm 
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Location: SC
There's no clear answer to you question, because there's no clear answer to how much of a factor a tough schedule has on a team's quality.
Vanderbilt has had a tough schedule for years, but they haven't had a winning record since 1982. With the idea that playing tough schedule makes you better, one would think that in 2o years of football they would be able to win 6 games at least once or twice.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2003 7:38 pm 
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i agree. you might be able to find a standard to compare two or three teams, using measures like common opponents, strength of schedule, road vistories, etc. this may come in handy when you want to compare, for instance, all the teams that have one loss in order to determine who gets an at-large bid. almost like a tie-breaker. but to do this for all 117 teams, or even all 60-odd bowl-eligible teams, is impossible. maybe in a 14- or 15-game season you could differentiate among teams with dissimilar records, but until then there is too small a sample size of ooc games to make a measurement statistically reliable. out of conference opponent strength is too influenced by chance -- not exclusively, but just take a look at teams like nebraska, syracuse and michigan state in '02, and penn state in '01, and you have an idea. even colorado went under .500 a few years ago. i'm sure those all looked like marquee opponents when the schedules were made several years before. for this reason, the largest and most reliable determinant of strength of schedule is the conference you play in. the best hope a mid-major has is to win all its games, hope that it faces a quality ooc opponent or two, and hope that the pollsters notice.

despite our noble desires to bring some rationale to the system, it is what it is, and i'm afraid it might always be what it is.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2003 9:00 am 
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Posts: 396
Location: Knoxville
Sbro,
You are probably right about things staying basically the same. :'( Your also right about conferences being the most reliable way to determine strength of schedule. However, please note Catdaddy2402's comment on Vandy. If Vandy somehow went undefeated through the SEC championship, they WOULD deserve a shot at the title game. Tulane going through the a CUSA season undefeated cannot say that unless their ooc is really tough.

The differences would be on the margins. Some ACC and BE schools schedules are not much tougher than a good CUSA schedule with a good ooc opponent. Some would say that MS St.'s ooc schedule is so weak that if they miss TN and FL in the rotation, they might be margional. How to get MS St. and some mid-BCS schools to upgrade is a tough question. ??? How to get some of the better 1B's (mid majors) into the BCS/playoffs without diluting it with the rest is tougher. ::)

OH well, that is what dreams are made of. :) And this is the dream thread! ;)

FBfan
P.S. did you see my last post on Idea for rule change? It probably belonged on this thread. It would solve some problems, but probably create others. However, the new problems would be about growth. :)


Last edited by fbfan on Mon Feb 24, 2003 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2003 1:22 pm 
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All-Conference
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Location: Dothan, AL for the time being.

Quote:
Sbro,
You are probably right about things staying basically the same. :'(

I wouldn't be too sure about that, FBfan. It used to be that the BCS bowls rarely pitted the #1 and #2 teams in college football against each other. Now, I think it will happen on a regular basis with the Big Ten and the Pac 10 now being in the mix. That has to be considered an improvement. The more fans gripe, the more changes will be made, IMO. 8-)
I'll have to mull over your other ideas. ;)


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2003 7:26 am 
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All-Conference
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Location: Dothan, AL for the time being.
I know that many on here have talked about Arkansas joining the Big 12. But here's a thought no one, including me, has ever thought about before now: LSU to the Big 12. This idea definitely has some merit. Back in early 90's when the SEC was looking to expand, LSU spearheaded the Texas/TAMU choice. Whenever SEC realignment is brought up, LSWho fans always want Texas & TAMU. Could it be that LSU wants to join the Big 12 if the SEC doesn't go after these schools? Personally, I wouldn't care, and I would love it if LSWho left. Their fans always are on high horses, and are worse than 'Bama, Auburn, Michigan, Florida, and even some Florida State fans put together!!! I wouldn't cry too much over losing LSWho. How would you Big 12 fans like to have LSU in your conference??


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2003 12:16 pm 
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Location: Knoxville
DawgNDuck,

I always thought that LSU and AR would fit into a renewed SWC. You would have the TX 4 (or at least TX, TAM, and TTU), LSU, AR, So Miss, and 1 or 2 others.

Unfortunately, this would work best under the BE raids ACC scenerio, where the ACC becomes So. IVY. With the ACC raiding the BE, I don't see it happening.

However, since we are on the dream thread, how about the better BE FB schools (Pitt, VT,WV) starting a FB ONLY conference and cherry picking the best of CUSA?
You would have Cinn, Lou, Marshall, Pitt, So Miss,VT,WV and either So Fl or Cent FL. All the schools would stay in their present conferences for all sports BUT FB.

FBfan


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2003 2:16 pm 
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Posts: 822
Location: Dothan, AL for the time being.
Hmm, Fbfan,
there have been rumors of the Big East cherry picking CUSA fball schools, but CUSA is in talks right now to bring in Pittsburgh & West Virginia into the conference. To me, that is much more likely, than the other (BE raiding CUSA). As for VT, believe it or not, I see them as a second coming of FSU, and I believe the SEC would have a chance to atone for one of its biggest mistakes of not bringing a future powerhouse on board when it had the chance. VT fans want the SEC. Frank Beamer, the VT coach, wouldn't mind coaching in the SEC either. It's a match made in heaven!!! Plus, the SEC would get the Hampton Roads tv market (Norfolk, Virginia Beach, Va., and the surrounding area), the Roanoke market, as well as a possible share of the Washington, DC market too. It's a win-win situation for both, IMO> ;D


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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2003 5:21 am 
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All-Star
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Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 8:39 am
Posts: 1055
Location: Alabama
ACC-North
Syracuse
Maryland
Boston College
North Carolina St.
Virginia
Wake Forest

ACC-South
Duke
Clemson
North Carolina
Florida St.
Georgia Tech
Miami-Fla

SEC-East
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
South Carolina
Tennessee
Vanderbilt

SEC-West
Alabama
Arkansas
Auburn
LSU
Mississippi
Mississippi St.

Big 12-North
Colorado
Iowa St.
Kansas
Kansas St.
Missouri
Nebraska

Big 12-South
Baylor
Oklahoma
Oklahoma St.
Texas
Texas A&M
Texas Tech

The Twelve-East
Indiana
Michigan
Michigan St.
Pittsburgh
Ohio St.
Penn St.

The Twelve-West
Illinois
Iowa
Minnesota
Northwestern
Purdue
Wisconsin

Pac 12-North
California
Oregon
Oregon St.
Stanford
Washington
Washington St.

Pac 12-South
Arizona
Arizona St.
Hawaii
UCLA
Fresno St.
USC

Conference USA-North
Army
Cincinnati
Louisville
Marshall
Connecticut
Rutgers
Temple
West Virginia

Conference USA-South
Memphis
Southern Mississippi
Tulane
East Carolina
Virginia Tech
Louisiana Tech
South Florida
Central Florida

MWC-North
Air Force
Boise St.
Wyoming
BYU
Utah
Colorado St.

MWC-South
TCU
UTEP
Nevada
San Diego St.
New Mexico
UNLV

SunBelt-East
Florida Atlantic
Florida International
Louisiana-Lafayette
Louisiana-Monroe
Middle Tennessee
Troy St.
UAB
Navy
Arkansas St.


Sunbelt-West
New Mexico St.
Idaho
Tulsa
Utah St.
San Jose St.
North Texas
Rice
SMU
Houston

MAC-East
Akron
Bowling Green
Buffalo
Kent St.
Miami-Ohio
Ohio

MAC-West
Ball St.
Central Michigan
Eastern Michigan
Northern Illinois
Toledo
Western Michigan

_________________
The Bear may be dead but he still hates Tennessee. Roll Damn Tide


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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2003 10:56 am 
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Posts: 822
Location: Dothan, AL for the time being.
My dream conferences (note some conferences may get renamed and I will indicate which got renamed by putting the former conference name in parenthesis. Partial members, football or basketball only, will be indicated by asterisks)

SEC
East:
Georgia
Florida
Virginia Tech
South Carolina
Tennessee
Kentucky
Vanderbilt* (this will be a new setup for Vandy, being a non-football member of the SEC)
West:
Arkansas
Auburn
Alabama
Ole Miss
Mississippi State
LSU

Big 12
North:
Nebraska
Colorado
Kansas State
Iowa State
Kansas
BYU
South:
Texas
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Texas A&M
Texas Tech
Baylor

The Twelve (formerly the Big Ten, thanks for the idea, football god!!! I think I'll use it!!)
East:
Penn State
Ohio State
Purdue
Michigan
Michigan State
Indiana
West:
Iowa
Wisconsin
Northwestern
Illinois
Minnesota
Missouri

ACC
North:
Maryland
Boston College
North Carolina
Syracuse
Duke
Virginia
South:
NC State
Florida State
Miami
Clemson
Georgia Tech
Wake Forest

Pac 12
North:
Oregon
Washington
Washington State
Oregon State
Utah
Hawaii
South:
Southern Cal
Arizona State
Arizona
Stanford
California
UCLA

Continental American (formerly Conference USA)
North:
Army*
Louisville
Cincinnati
East Carolina
West Virginia
Pittsburgh
Connecticut
South:
Marshall
Louisiana Tech
Southern Miss
Memphis
Texas Christian
Houston
South Florida

Mountain West
Colorado State
Air Force
New Mexico
Wyoming
Boise State
Nevada
UNLV
San Diego St.
Fresno State

TBD






Last edited by dawgnduckfan on Sun May 25, 2003 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2003 9:35 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 2:15 pm
Posts: 396
Location: Knoxville
DawgNDuck,
I agree that the BE without Miami(Fl), Syr and BC is no better than C-USA. However, if the BB schools get to keep the name and NCAA bb bid, the FB schools might want to stat a new conference. This would let them merge with C-USA's best teams without kicking out the UABs. Then new conference might still be short of BCS status, but it would be close.

Consider:
Cin, E. Carolina, Louis, Marshall, Mem, Pitt, So. Miss, WV
and either So. or Central Fl .

FBfan
P.S. I like the idea of booting Vandy, :) but I doubt that it will ever happen. :'(


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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2003 10:04 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:17 pm
Posts: 822
Location: Dothan, AL for the time being.

Quote:
DawgNDuck,
I agree that the BE without Miami(Fl), Syr and BC is no better than C-USA. However, if the BB schools get to keep the name and NCAA bb bid, the FB schools might want to stat a new conference. This would let them merge with C-USA's best teams without kicking out the UABs. Then new conference might still be short of BCS status, but it would be close.

Consider:
Cin, E. Carolina, Louis, Marshall, Mem, Pitt, So. Miss, WV
and either So. or Central Fl .

FBfan
P.S. I like the idea of booting Vandy, :) but I doubt that it will ever happen. :'(


FBfan, actually Vanderbilt isn't booted out in my scenario. Vanderbilt is a still an SEC member, but more like in the sense that Georgetown is a BE member (you know, all sports but football?). Vandy gets to keep its basketball program in the SEC along with its baseball program and all of its other minor sports, like women's lacrosse, horseshoes, annoying UT fans, cow tipping, etc. ;D Football would compete in the Southern Conference, where it would be a LOT more competitive!!


Last edited by dawgnduckfan on Mon May 26, 2003 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 10:18 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 2:38 am
Posts: 44
Location: Some Where in Montana
ACC-North
Syracuse
Maryland
Boston College
North Carolina St.
Virginia
Wake Forest

ACC-South
Duke
Clemson
North Carolina
Florida St.
Georgia Tech
Miami-Florida

SEC-East
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
South Carolina
Tennessee
Vanderbilt

SEC-West
Alabama
Arkansas
Auburn
LSU
Mississippi
Mississippi St.

Big 12-North
Colorado
Iowa St.
Kansas
Kansas St.
Missouri
Nebraska

Big 12-South
Baylor
Oklahoma
Oklahoma St.
Texas
Texas A&M
Texas Tech

Big North-East
Indiana
Michigan
Michigan St.
Notre Dame
Ohio St.
Penn St.

Big North-West
Illinois
Iowa
Minnesota
Northwestern
Purdue
Wisconsin

Pac 12-North
California
Oregon
Oregon St.
Stanford
Washington
Washington St.

Pac 12-South
Arizona
Arizona St.
Hawaii
UCLA
San Diego St.
USC

MWC-West
Nevada
Fresno St.
UNLV
Utah
BYU
Hawaii

MWC-East
Boise St.
Air Force
Colorado St.
New Mexico
Wyoming
New Mexico St.



WAC-West
Idaho
Utah St.
San Jose St
Tulsa
UTEP
Montana*New

WAC-East
SMU
Rice
North Texas
Louisiana-Lafayette
Arkansas St.
Louisiana Tech

Big East-East
Villanova*New
Army
Navy
Rutgers
Temple
Connecticut

Big East-West
Marshall
Cincinnati
West Virginia
Pittsburgh
Virginia Tech
Georgetown*New


Conference USA-East
South Florida
Central Florida
East Carolina
UAB
Troy St.
MTSU


Conference USA-West
Memphis
Southern Mississippi
Tulane
Houston
TCU
Louisville

Dropped from this is MAC and Louisiana-Monroe back down to 1-AA.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2003 10:00 am 
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Freshman
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Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 2:38 am
Posts: 44
Location: Some Where in Montana
ACC-North
Syracuse
Maryland
Boston College
North Carolina St.
Virginia
Wake Forest

ACC-South
Duke
Clemson
North Carolina
Florida St.
Georgia Tech
Miami-Florida

SEC-East
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
South Carolina
Tennessee
Vanderbilt

SEC-West
Alabama
Arkansas
Auburn
LSU
Mississippi
Mississippi St.

Big 12-North
Colorado
Iowa St.
Kansas
Kansas St.
Missouri
Nebraska

Big 12-South
Baylor
Oklahoma
Oklahoma St.
Texas
Texas A&M
Texas Tech

The Twelve-East
Indiana
Michigan
Michigan St.
Purdue
Ohio St.
Penn St.

The Twelve-West
Illinois
Iowa
Minnesota
Northwestern
Notre Dame
Wisconsin

Pac 12-North
California
Oregon
Oregon St.
Stanford
Washington
Washington St.

Pac 12-South
Arizona
Arizona St.
Hawaii
UCLA
San Diego St.
USC

MWC-West
Nevada
Fresno St.
UNLV
Utah
BYU
Boise St.

MWC-East
Air Force
Colorado St.
New Mexico
Wyoming
New Mexico St.
TCU

WAC-West
Idaho
Utah St.
San Jose St
Tulsa
UTEP
Montana*New

WAC-East
SMU
Rice
North Texas
Louisiana-Lafayette
Arkansas St.
Louisiana Tech

Big East-North
Villanova*New
Army
Massachusetts*New
Rutgers
Temple
Connecticut

Big East-South
Marshall
Cincinnati
West Virginia
Pittsburgh
Virginia Tech
Navy

Continental America-East
South Florida
Central Florida
Florida-International*New
East Carolina
UAB
Troy St.

Continental America-West
Memphis
Southern Mississippi
Tulane
Houston
Louisville
MTSU


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2003 1:20 pm 
DawgNDuckFan, I am actually agreeing with you on the PAC 10. If the PAC 10 did expand, Utah and Hawaii, for a variety of reasons, would be my selection as well.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2003 4:16 pm 
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Posts: 109
These aren't exactly 'Dream Conferences', but instead assumes 4 mega-conferences with 16 teams each, divided into 4 'regional' divisions for ease of travel on minor sports. Each division team has a partner team and two divisions within each conference are conference rival divisions (which mean more games would be played against a rival divisional team than against the other two divisions).

When reviewing, please keep in mind that I understand some schools will be considered totally inappropriate for certain leagues for a variety of reasons (e.g., academics; type of institution; etc.). This set-up is primarily being done taking mostly geography into account and less travel for the minor sports while also trying to maintain some established rivalries within divisions. However, designated rival divisions within each conference would cause headaches as well, which is why I am not going to say which is which, but just lay them out.

And this is my first try at this ;)

PAC-16

North Pacific Division

Washington
Washington State
Oregon
Oregon State

Mountain West Division

BYU
Utah
Colorado
Colorado State

California Division

USC
UCLA
California
Stanford

Southwest Division

Arizona
Arizona State
Texas Tech
Oklahoma State


BIG-16

I haven't thought of names for these divisions yet.

Division A

Michigan
Michigan State
Ohio State
Cincinnati

Division B

Purdue
Indiana
Illinois
Northwestern

Division C

Minnesota
Wisconsin
Iowa
Iowa State

Division D

Oklahoma
Nebraska
Missouri
Kansas

SEC

Division A

Kentucky
Louisville
Virginia Tech
South Carolina

Division B

Tennessee
Vanderbilt
Georgia
Florida

Division C

Alabama
Auburn
Mississippi
Mississippi State

Division D

LSU
Arkansas
Texas
Texas A&M


ACC

Division A

Miami
FSU
Ga. Tech
Clemson

Division B

UNC
NC State
Duke
Wake Forest

Division C

Virginia
Maryland
UConn
BC

Division D

Notre Dame
Penn State
Pitt
SU






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