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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:44 pm 
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The "Realigning the non-BCS and BE" thread has degenerated into name calling. This thread is to bring back reasoned debate.

Proposed: The BE, as it is now, is good for ND and the BB schools, but bad for the other FB schools.

Make your arguments here. Arguments in favor of one side or the other will earn a point for their side. Name calling will lose a point for the side making it.

Suggestions for rewording the debate will be considered and possibly voted on. However, no points will be given for this.

FBfan


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:17 pm 

Quote:
The "Realigning the non-BCS and BE" thread has degenerated into name calling. This thread is to bring back reasoned debate.

Proposed: The BE, as it is now, is good for ND and the BB schools, but bad for the other FB schools.

Make your arguments here. Arguments in favor of one side or the other will earn a point for their side. Name calling will lose a point for the side making it.

Suggestions for rewording the debate will be considered and possibly voted on. However, no points will be given for this.

FBfan


FBfan,
If the Big East, in fb, does not come up again with a West Virginia or a Louisville (or possibly another) earning at least a 10-2 regular season record, the controversy will enhance again.
Though Florida State in the ACC came into the BCS placements last year with more loses, they could point to winning a conference championship game of a 12 team conference and they had been a BCS regular and a former national champion playing in a Florida-based bowl.
West Virginia proved themselves a winner last year. But remember, the Pittsburgh representative from the prior year who lost to Utah out of the MWC, did create concern. That was passed off, understandably, due to the raid the prior year.
Being a conference champion of 9 or more representatives is stronger than being one of 8. All the other BCS conferences have a least 10 schools, and all of them are older, more established conferences.
Maybe West Virginia or someone else in the Big East will do a Miami-type domineering stretch. I doubt, though, any of them will beyond a two, maybe three, year span.
That said, the Big East does possess BCS oriented schools most of which are on par with much of the rank and file of brethern BCS conferences. I view, in fb, they are 1 or 2 short in number to offer their best potential for the long-term.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:02 pm 
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DogsNThingys,

Good post. Your argument seems to be 8 team conferences have a harder time having a top 10 team. That is one point for the proposition (pro-split by FB teams).

Also please note my comments to guest. Do you have any suggestions? I would like to see the debate on the BE be done with reason like you do. Lash, who would take the other side will usually stay on point until he feels that someone has attacked him unfairly. A good clean, REASONED debate would be refreshing.

Guest

I should probably subtract a point for you remarks, but you did not mention him by name. This brings up a problem. Guest posters could influence the total by pretending to take one side to attack the other and get the negative points. Any suggestions anyone?

FBfan


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:21 pm 
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BE/SEC bb series


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/story/405065p-343052c.html


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:19 pm 
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TS2,

I assume that your point is that the BE is making good money in BB that it would NOT make if it split. If you meant something else, let me know. One point against the proposition (and FOR keeping the BE as is).

Score now tied: 1-1.

Guest: Please note that TS2 was a gentleman and played by the rules of this thread (good job TS2). Can you? I think you can if you try.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:53 pm 
Tell you what FBfan, you and Tigershark chat away with each other and you can give yourself points for patronizing.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:50 pm 
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This point, sounds crazy, but IMO, is certainly valid.
A split from the bb schools will make ND athletic department nervous, IMO. Before, I don't think ND really cared whether or not the BE split. But now, I can tell from telltale signs that ND does like what the BE has to offer, at least in basketball. The problem for AD Kevin White is convincing the alumni base to give up independent status in football to go all-sports in the BE. A BE split would definitely help Kevin White's position gain strength among the alumni.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:56 pm 
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Any change in ND's football status will be done in a gradual fashion and will be done with a lot of mirrors.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:11 pm 
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ND will certainly never join the BE in FB. Big 10, probably.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:44 pm 
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Quote:
ND will certainly never join the BE in FB. Big 10, probably.
In 1999 ND said no the b10.Now they are better and richer why would they go to the b10?.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:04 pm 
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FBfan, how did I miss your thread. Got to add my two cents here as you know.

I agree with Dognthings and the Big East defiantly needs at least one more football member to have a strong stable future.

I think a split is inevitable, however, can go both ways on split in division by football only schools and ND/basketball schools or total split.

The most practical method would be to go with the original Gavitt proposal after ACC raided the Big East and allow football division to operate on its own as needed for football purposes.

I could live with two 9 team divisions with two cross over games each year for an 18 game basketball schedule and 4 home and 4 away football conference games.

UMass could make a nice basketball only school for the 9th member of that division.

To be quite honest the Notre Dame and/or Penn State to the Big East idea is very tired.

Would not the world be wonderful if Notre Dame left and the Big East could simply replace ND with a good basketball school that played football (i.e. Memphis).

Guess my vote is for split for the record.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:34 pm 

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Any change in ND's football status will be done in a gradual fashion and will be done with a lot of mirrors.


I do not disagree with you on this for the short term at least. My view is that any change in Notre Dame willingness to participate in conference football will be based on external factors. This would include matters such as the following:

* Trouble scheduling opponents (appears not a problem)
* Their NBC (or another) TV contract in the future is for a lot less money (appears not a problem)
* The BCS gets tough with Notre Dame over revenue distribution and access (only modest, appeasing moves so far)
* Powerhouses such as Michigan and Southern Cal drop scheduling Notre Dame (does not appear in the works anytime soon)
* Navy and Army join fb conferences leaving Notre Dame as a lone independent and more focus grows on the issue (Army and Navy seem committed, for now, to be independent)
* The Big East splits, and Notre Dame is destined to go with the bb onlies. (Split not eminent for a few years)
* The Big Ten decides to go to 12 and takes interest in someone other than Notre Dame (not active)
* The faculty reaffirm their desire to be a part of the Big Ten academic consortium (minor factor, but certainly helps within the institution)
* Notre Dame experiences a string of losing seasons in fb and their image further suffers.
* The administration of Notre Dame conducts a public relations campaign to sell the idea of joining a conference in fb (good luck with this one).
* Boston College wins a national fb championship and become dominant, Catholic private school ;D!
* The BE expands in fb and gets protective and influential in terms of their bowl arrangements.

It's going to be the system, which brought other former independents, such as Penn State, into the conference fold.



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:40 pm 
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If the Big East should split, which "half" of the 16 teams would leave the conference?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 12:04 pm 
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I have a feeling it would be the b-ball schools; it really would depend on the wording of the BE's contract with the BCS. If the BCS could assign the BE's spot to the new football conference, it won't be much of an issue.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:19 pm 
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The scenario of the split hardly seems a likely one.


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