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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:52 am 
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Location: Louisville, KY
Half of the problem with Southern Maine (besides that enrollment being split into 3 campuses, with Lewiston being a bit out there) is that USM's athletics are at Gorham, while the main campus is within Portland itself. That alone hinders athletic attendance, as 1) students are less likely to go when the events are harder to get to, and 2) the locals having a fit when the streets are overpacked for games (the town's only 14,000 people). It seems like they're in the same boat that the main SUNY campuses (Buffalo, Binghamton, Stony Brook, and Albany) were until last decade, where athletics are an afterthought. The main reason that changed? other than those four schools, name me a public DI school... exactly. All of that revenue and name recognition is going to the privates, so the SUNY system decided to jump on the wagon to get their piece (or rather, take someone else's). Maine doesn't quite have that luxury/problem, as it's considerably less populous. That's why USM has never made a serious look at possibly moving up. If the SUNYs would move up either in the 60's or 70's, then they might have a solid enough base to make them attractive.

MU is public, but would have been private around the 1950's along with UC and a few other city schools that are now in the OH State system and MAC in the OTL. MU possibly remaining private is a possibility in this time line (they do a dang good job of hiding that they're public, I will say that much).

Oscar Robertson (I think that's who you meant) has never had anything to do with SoCal. He was born and bred in Indy, and the only scenarios where he wouldn't go to Cincinnati on any timeline is either that UC wouldn't exist by his college days or that civil rights was taken care of in the '20s.

I do have two kickers for ya:
1) Going to 12 in football isn't a priority. Given that the Big 12 doesn't exist (it's now a 10-school Big 8) and the SEC is smaller now, the only impoetus to expand would come from the 16-team WAC, and the miserable failure of it scares away other conferences from growing too large in football, and they stop at 10.
2) Louisville and desegregation would totally throw a wrench into the works in the SEC. UofL absorbed the would-have-been HBCU Metro University in 1951, a lot sooner than the rest of the SEC. Given 1) the location with one foot in each the South and Midwest, and 2) being the one school in the main urban area of a state, this would still have happened in the alternate timeline. How would the SEC react? Would they grumble and deal with it, or try to force them to look for a move? Now you're looking at a school with a considerable urban market and base, solid football, somewhat competitive Basketball (if KY State is that successful under Gaines, UofL would likely put effort in to keep up with them as well as maintain their football), who is now looking for another top dog conference. Would the Big 10 want to grab them and let their academics build into AAU status? Would the ACC (or maybe even the Big 8) make a run for them?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:42 pm 
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Tarkio Kid:

1. There is still the PAC 12 (Remember I said that in this TL they successfully poached Texas and Colorado), and possibly the Big T(w)e(lve){n} (Missou will probably be low hanging fruit, to be replaced by poaching Colorado State or Wyoming, and there's no real bad blood between Wisconsin-Milwaukee and Madison {And Milwaukee isn't an NFL killzone} ) and the SEC (Florida State and Virginia Tech are perfect institutional fits, as is Texas A&M. Houston's not perfect {in an NFL killzone, for one thing} But it's larger than any other school in the SEC except Florida and Texas A&M.) Though, to be sure, the MAC in this timeline won't make the Division 1A cutoff.

2. Due to the point of divergence itself and the events outside the sports world resulting from it, Louisville Municipal College isn't merged with U of L until the mid 1960s, a little before the Kentucky Southern acquisition. And there is no way I can prevent U of L from being taken over by the state.

As for U of L/K State: Louisville will ignore them and Gaines in the 1950s and 1960s the way that LSU did Grambling and Rudy Johnson. (Even more so, since the Thoroughbreds are still in the NAIA until 1972 and don't reach Division 1 tournament eligibility until 1980). They'll start taking notice in the '80s, but by then it will be too late, as trying to become a basketball school by then will require a fairly massive institutional change, of the sort only a scandal or a plane crash can cause.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:50 pm 
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Here is a Table of this Timeline's NCAA National Champions in Men's Basketball. See if you can spot a few behind the scenes changes.

Year Champion Runner-up Venue and city
1939 Kentucky 63 Oregon 43 Patten Gymnasium Evanston, Illinois
1940 Indiana 60 Kansas 42 Municipal Auditorium Kansas City, Missouri
1941 Wisconsin 39 Washington State 34 Municipal Auditorium Kansas City, Missouri (2)
1942 Stanford 99 Dartmouth 38 Municipal Auditorium Kansas City, Missouri (3)
1943 Wyoming 46 Georgetown 34 Madison Square Garden New York City, New York
1944 Utah 40 Dartmouth 40 Madison Square Garden New York City, New York
1945 Oklahoma State 49 NYU 45 Madison Square Garden New York City, New York
1946 Oklahoma State 43 North Carolina 40 Madison Square Garden New York City, New York
1947 Holy Cross 58 Oklahoma 47 Madison Square Garden New York City, New York
1948 Kentucky 58 Baylor 42 Madison Square Garden New York City, New York
1949 Kentucky 46 Oklahoma State 36 Hec Edmundson Pavilion Seattle, Washington
1950 CUNY City College 71 Bradley 68 Madison Square Garden New York City, New York
1951 Kentucky 68 Kansas State 58 Williams Arena Minneapolis, Minnesota
1952 Kansas 80 St. John's 63 Hec Edmundson Pavilion Seattle, Washington
1953 Indiana 69 Kansas 68 Municipal Auditorium Kansas City, Missouri
1954 La Salle 92 Bradley 76 Municipal Auditorium Kansas City, Missouri (5)
1955 San Francisco 76 La Salle 73 Municipal Auditorium Kansas City, Missouri
1956 San Francisco 83 Iowa 71 Welsh-Ryan Arena Evanston, Illinois
1957 North Carolina 54 Kansas 53 Municipal Auditorium Kansas City, Missouri
1958 Kentucky 84 Seattle 72 Freedom Hall Louisville, Kentucky
1959 California 71 West Virginia 70 Freedom Hall Louisville, Kentucky
1960 Ohio State 75 California 55 Cow Palace San Francisco, California
1961 Cincinnati 70 Ohio State 65 Municipal Auditorium Kansas City, Missouri
1962 Kentucky 71 Cincinnati 59 Freedom Hall Louisville, Kentucky
1963 Loyola (Chicago) 72 Toledo 58 Freedom Hall Louisville, Kentucky
1964 Minnesota 98 Duke 83 Municipal Auditorium Kansas City, Missouri
1965 Bradley 91 Kentucky 80 Memorial Coliseum Portland, Oregon
1966 Kentucky 79 UTEP 66 Cole Field House College Park, Maryland
1967 Indiana 79 Dayton 64 Freedom Hall Louisville, Kentucky
1968 Michigan State 78 North Carolina 55 Los Angeles Memorial Sports Arena Los Angeles, California
1969 LSU 92 Purdue 72 Freedom Hall Louisville, Kentucky
1970 Kentucky 80 California 69 Cole Field House College Park, Maryland
1971 Minnesota-Duluth 78 Villanova 64 Astrodome Houston, Texas
1972 Minnesota 85 Minnesota-Duluth 76 Los Angeles Memorial Sports Arena Los Angeles, California
1973 Southern Kentucky 84 South Carolina 66 St. Louis Arena St. Louis, Missouri
1974 North Carolina State 76 Marquette 64 Greensboro Coliseum Greensboro, North Carolina
1975 Minnesota 92 Cincinatti 85 San Diego Sports Arena San Diego, California
1976 Indiana State 86 Michigan 68 Spectrum Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
1977 Michigan State 71 North Carolina 59 Omni Coliseum Atlanta, Georgia
1978 Kentucky 94 Duke 88 The Checkerdome St. Louis, Missouri (2)
1979 Indiana State 73 Kentucky 69 Jon M. Huntsman Center Salt Lake City, Utah
1980 Kentucky State 59 UCLA 54 Market Square Arena Indianapolis, Indiana
1981 Indiana 63 North Carolina 50 The Spectrum Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
1982 North Carolina 63 Georgetown 62 Louisiana Superdome New Orleans, Louisiana
1983 North Carolina State 54 Houston 52 University Arena Albuquerque, New Mexico
1984 Kentucky 84 Houston 75 The Kingdome Seattle, Washington
1985 Villanova 66 Kentucky 64 Rupp Arena Lexington, Kentucky
1986 Kentucky State 71 Duke 69 Reunion Arena Dallas, Texas
1987 Indiana 74 Syracuse 73 Louisiana Superdome New Orleans, Louisiana
1988 Alabama 83 Kansas 79 Kemper Arena Kansas City, Missouri
1989 Michigan 80 Seton Hall 79 The Kingdome Seattle, Washington
1990 UNLV 103 Duke 73 McNichols Sports Arena Denver, Colorado
1991 Duke 72 Kansas 65 Hoosier Dome Indianapolis, Indiana
1992 LSU 71 Wayne State 59 Metrodome Minneapolis, Minnesota
1993 Wayne State 77 North Carolina Louisiana Superdome New Orleans, Louisiana
1994 Kentucky State 76 Duke 72 Charlotte Coliseum Charlotte, North Carolina
1995 UCLA 89 Arkansas 78 The Kingdome Seattle, Washington
1996 Kentucky 76 Syracuse 67 Continental Airlines Arena East Rutherford, New Jersey
1997 Arizona 84 Kentucky 79 RCA Dome Indianapolis, Indiana (3)
1998 Kentucky 78 Utah 69 Alamodome San Antonio, Texas
1999 Connecticut 77 Duke 74 Tropicana Field St. Petersburg, Florida
2000 Michigan State 89 Florida 76 RCA Dome Indianapolis, Indiana
2001 Duke 82 Arizona 72 Metrodome Minneapolis, Minnesota (3)
2002 Indiana 78 Georgia State 64 Georgia Dome Atlanta, Georgia
2003 Syracuse 81 Kansas 78 Louisiana Superdome New Orleans, Louisiana
2004 Connecticut 82 Georgia Tech 73 Alamodome San Antonio, Texas
2005 North Carolina 75 Illinois 70 Edward Jones Dome St. Louis, Missouri
2006 Florida 73 Illinois 57 RCA Dome Indianapolis, Indiana
2007 Florida 84 Indiana State 75 Georgia Dome Atlanta, Georgia


Last edited by benbreeck on Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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