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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:44 am 
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What are your thoughts on Utah possibly joining the Pac-10 or Big-12? They seem to have established themselves as if not the, then one of the top non-BCS sports programs in the country. I'd love to see them in them and TCU replace Iowa State and Baylor in the Big 12, but understand they aren't going anywhere without BYU.

Are they stuck in the MWC or do you see them leaving in the near future?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:51 pm 
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depends if Obama gets involved.

If Obama insists the BCS let in schools that have fans support (ie. attendance numbers and budgets) that suggest they can compete at the BCS level including the two most obvious bcs snubbed schools---BYU and Utah --- they could get in to the Big 12 somehow. I doubt the Pac 10 will comply to take them.

The big 12 is a marriage of convenience.

I could see a deal that splits the Big 12

Big 12
UT
OU
OSU
TAMU
TTech
Baylor
KU
KSU
Missou
CSU
Colorado
UNM

Big 8
Fresno
Boise
BYU
Utah
Air Force
Nebraska
Iowa State
TCU

or if the BCS schools don't want to cut an 8 school conference in for a full 17M BCS share (yielding a larger share per member school that the current BCS schools), they could insist that crappy new conference has 12 (or possibly even 14) members.

Midwest 14
West
SD State
Fresno
Boise
BYU
Utah
Nebraska
Iowa State

TCU
SMU
Houston
Tulsa
Tulane
Rice
UNT/Memphis

Something like that...


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:26 pm 
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Obama better keep his nose out of CFB and concentrate on real problems.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:47 pm 
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Westwolf wrote:
Obama better keep his nose out of CFB and concentrate on real problems.


I don't remember Obama ever talking about conference realignment in the way mentioned in the above post; I don't know how much clout he would have to force teams into any particular conference. The only time I've heard him talk about college football was in the 60 Minutes interview, when he was asked the question about a playoff by the interviewer. Creating an 8-team playoff or realigning conferences is not and should not be on his agenda. If he really wanted to, he could appoint a committee to look into some of those possibilities.


Last edited by dafoeberezin3494 on Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:56 pm 
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draftnik12 wrote:
What are your thoughts on Utah possibly joining the Pac-10 or Big-12? They seem to have established themselves as if not the, then one of the top non-BCS sports programs in the country. I'd love to see them in them and TCU replace Iowa State and Baylor in the Big 12, but understand they aren't going anywhere without BYU.

Are they stuck in the MWC or do you see them leaving in the near future?


I wonder if the MWC could find a way to get into the BCS themselves. In another thread, I wondered if the MWC could maybe convince Colorado, Arizona, Arizona State, and maybe Texas Tech into the conference and maybe exchange a few teams with the WAC. I know it is only a slim to none possibility, but how does a core group like this sound for a BCS conference:

Colorado
Colorado State
Arizona
Arizona State
BYU
Utah
New Mexico
Texas Tech
TCU

You could also potentially help replenish the WAC by moving teams like SD State or UNLV, IF that's what it takes to get the MWC in the BCS (the MWC could help the WAC with scheduling/bowl contracting in some sort of agreement). Any thoughts?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:51 am 
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davids wrote:
Might have Boise State, Fresno State and UNR moved into the MWC as well in exchange for San Diego State, UNLV and Wyoming.


Why would SDSU, UNLV, and Wyoming leave? If someone FORCES them to leave ok but they will not leave voluntarily.


Last edited by panthersc97 on Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:40 pm 
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Westwolf wrote:
Obama better keep his nose out of CFB and concentrate on real problems.


Hey now... I am not throwing Obama under the bus, I am merely mentioning that he has said some things that clearly show that he is a pro-playoffs college football fan---ie. not a "BCS as is" protector.

I did not mean to imply that now that he is president that he is going to suddently stop working on fixing Bush's economy and instead focus on college football. I was more implying that pressure could come down to fix some things in college football. If it did, you'd likely never see Obama taking a direct role in it. (Taking on the BCS system would cost Obama a lot more political capital than anything he'd get out of it. He is a smart guy, so he wouldn't be visibly involved.) Now on the flipside, I fully EXPECT he will appoint someone with similar sports views to him to head every department tangentally connected to college sports. He IS a sports nut.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:49 pm 
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dafoeberezin3494 wrote:

I don't remember Obama ever talking about conference realignment in the way mentioned in the above post; I don't know how much clout he would have to force teams into any particular conference. The only time I've heard him talk about college football was in the 60 Minutes interview, when he was asked the question about a playoff by the interviewer. Creating an 8-team playoff or realigning conferences is not and should not be on his agenda. If he really wanted to, he could appoint a committee to look into some of those possibilities.


Consider if he appoints a playoff-minded individual to the department that produces guidelines to assist universities in satisfying Title IX requirements. Guidelines for that could force a change in the NCAA classification criterias...a whole bunch of stuff. It will be very interesting to see the rules the NCAA comes up with in the moritorium working with the changes that might come down from any governmental changes.


Last edited by finiteman on Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:26 pm 
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dafoeberezin3494 wrote:
I wonder if the MWC could find a way to get into the BCS themselves. In another thread, I wondered if the MWC could maybe convince Colorado, Arizona, Arizona State, and maybe Texas Tech into the conference and maybe exchange a few teams with the WAC. I know it is only a slim to none possibility, but how does a core group like this sound for a BCS conference:

Colorado
Colorado State
Arizona
Arizona State
BYU
Utah
New Mexico
Texas Tech
TCU

You could also potentially help replenish the WAC by moving teams like SD State or UNLV, IF that's what it takes to get the MWC in the BCS (the MWC could help the WAC with scheduling/bowl contracting in some sort of agreement). Any thoughts?


Sort of a really old MWC, eh?

I think that would be a neat deal, but I don't think you will see anything come down the line that will force teams out of conferences like the big 10 or Pac 10. Those conferences don't really have members they want to force out/or replace. A newer conference like the Big 12, that is somewhat disfunctional anyway, might be forced to "take the hit" for the BCS schools to get schools like BYU and Utah in to avoid any lawsuit, but it is likely any scenario would have to be signed off on by Texas, so I cannot see Colorado (denver market) or Tech (rival) not staying with UT.

I cannot see the BCS schools going along with admission of an 8 or 9 school conference as it would make that conference's per member share 17M BCS payout worth more than a a member share in the ACC, Big 12, or SEC. If they were forced into admitting a conference with BYU and Colorado, I'd have to think it would be at least a 12 and maybe a 14 member conference sor the per school schare would be small.

Additonally, I think while schools like BYU, Utah, and maybe TCU might be looked at favorably as potential BCS members, I think schools like CSU, UNM, Air Force might be merely seen as "tolerable" and schools like UNLV, Wyoming, and San Diego State would be seen as substandard candidates, which to me suggests the resulting conference would need to be a CUSA/MWC hybrid with a possible WAC member or two. (This is also the answer to your question, Panther... IMO.)

(Every school in the MWC outside of Utah, TCU, and BYU has noteworthy positives that might make them attractive as BCS candidates and noteworthy negatives as well.)

So assuming no Big 12 Cherry picking...

Midwest 14
West
Fresno
Boise
BYU
Utah
CSU
UNM
SD State

East
Tulsa
UTEP/UNT/Memphis
TCU
SMU
Houston
Rice
Tulane

I think if there is pressure to add Utah and BYU to the BCS (and invariably add another conference to make that happen) It could lead to Memphis getting into the BE.

I eliminated Air Force from the equation because it keeps Army and Navy at the same level. I could also see Air Force in and Army and Navy becoming football only members of the BE.


Last edited by finiteman on Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:24 pm 
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If the Pac 10 expanded they would need two partners that would fit well into the Northern Division. The Southern Division would consist of the six CA and AZ schools.

BYU would not be a good choice because they are private and have that "We can't play on Sunday" thing. The logical two for all sports would be Utah and Boise State.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:11 am 
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I'm not so sure Utah would need to change conferences. It's pretty arguable right now that the MWC is better than the ACC, so the BCS may not have a choice but to add the MWC (either as is or at the expense of the ACC). People try to point out the bottom tier of the MWC, but it's really not much worse than the bottom tiers of most conferences, especially when you start going through and comparing how many of the eastern and southern teams play I-AA teams compared to out west. I have a feeling either the BCS will expand or be coerced into an actual playoff (which will be 16 teams, not 8, per NCAA regulations).


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:20 pm 
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tarkiokid wrote:
I'm not so sure Utah would need to change conferences. It's pretty arguable right now that the MWC is better than the ACC


great point

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 6:52 pm 
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It's a good point, but you are talking about a conference already in vs. a conference trying to get in. When you are trying to pass/replace someone, you have to be noticably better for a long period of time. While the MWC is better today than the BE in football, the BE was better within the last 2 years, and when you add in the BE's BB dominace bumping up the conference name...Well, I can't see it without aid from above (a BE split or govt. intervention, not God. Although God could do it too...:)).

Now here's an alternative idea---purely speculative with no basis in reported facts --- What if the MWC chose to become a Western version of the BE?

Tulsa
Fresno State
BYU
CSU
UNM
SDSU
TCU
UNLV
Utah

Non football
Wyoming
Creighton
Wichita State
Bradley
St. Louis

That would be a dominant football and basketball conference. Air Force is competitive but never great in football or BB. Dropping Wyoming in football (allowing them to become a rival of Montana as an FCS power) would elimate perception problems for the conference in football while retaining their strong program for BB. Fresno adds a good market, good football, and solid BB. Tulsa is a solid football program with a consistently good BB program. Stealing the top 3 programs in the MVC and St. Louis would be a major bump to the conference brand --- just like BE BB does for the BE.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:30 pm 
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Based on last night's terrific showing, the Utes are probably too powerful for the Pac 10.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:06 pm 
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I wonder how big of margin Utah would have won over ACC champiion Virginia Tech had the Sugar Bowl selected Cincinnati to face Alabama.

What was the SEC and Sugar bowl thinking when they picked a non BCS school to face the SEC?


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