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 Post subject: Realigning D1 Hockey
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:00 am 
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OK, let's say a major realignment similar to the FB/BB-based one happens. The 8 (soon to be 7) Michigan schools in D1 Hockey have secret meetings on forming their own conference. When the CCHA finds out, they would become very upset over such a mass defection (6 of the MI schools play in the CCHA). This sparks a chain reaction that affects the entire division. New conferences would form, while 2 would cease to exist. Notably, the Ivy League finally becomes a league - er, conference of their own. And several schools establish programs to join in on the action. And what's more is that the CCHA is kicked out of its Detroit HQ by the new Michigan conference.

So this is how D1 Hockey should look.
* - new program

Atlantic Hockey Association:
American International
Bentley
Fairfield*
Holy Cross
Quinnipiac
Sacred Heart

Empire Hockey League:
Army
Buffalo*
Canisius
Clarkson
Colgate
Niagara
Rensselaer (RPI)
Rochester Tech
St. Lawrence
Syracuse*
Union
(all teams in Upstate NY)

Central Collegiate Hockey Associaton:
Alabama-Huntsville
Bowling Green State
Mercyhurst
Miami (Ohio)
Notre Dame
Ohio State
Robert Morris
(very weakened by the defection of the MI schools, UNO and UAF also jump ship to the WCHA as well)

Ivy League:
Brown
Columbia*
Cornell
Dartmouth
Harvard
Penn*
Princeton
Yale
(finally free from those non-Ivies!)

Michigan Hockey Association:
Central Michigan*
Eastern Michigan*
Ferris State
Lake Superior State
Michigan
Michigan State
Michigan Tech
Northern Michigan
Wayne State*
Western Michigan

Hockey East Association:
Boston College
Boston U.
Connecticut
Maine
Massachusetts
Massachusetts-Lowell
Merrimack
New Hampshire
Northeastern
Providence
Rhode Island*
Vermont

Western Collegiate Hockey Association:
East Division
Bemidji State
Marquette*
Minnesota
Minnesota-Duluth
Minnesota State-Mankato
St. Cloud State
Wisconsin
West Division
Air Force
Alaska-Anchorage
Alaska-Fairbanks
Colorado College
Denver
Nebraska-Omaha
North Dakota


Last edited by pf9 on Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Realigning D1 Hockey
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:30 pm 
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More so than the Ivy League, even more likely is the thought of a Big Ten hockey conference either through expansion (i.e. ND ever decides to join) or one of its current members jumping up to D1 (i.e. Illinois and/or Penn State). In all seriousness, the Big Ten Network creates a large incentive for the conference to eventually get its hockey schools together if only because it provides a whole lot of relatively valuable TV programming (certainly not on par with football and men's basketball, but probably would draw more interest than everything else).


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 Post subject: Realigning D1 Hockey
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:55 pm 
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I don't see the Big Ten sponsoring hockey proper - but I could compromise. BTN could still air hockey games between Big Ten members.

But what I really want TV-wise is a national TV contract. If NCAA does sign a national TV contract with a widely available network, I want it to be TBS. They still need something to fill that winter void left by their share of the NBA moving to ESPN. They would air mostly games on Wednesday and Friday nights (doubleheaders), plus they would have national TV rights to the Beanpot tourney, and the NCAA D1 tourney, plus the D3 championship game. Sounds like a fair deal to me.


Last edited by pf9 on Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Realigning D1 Hockey
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:55 am 
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I don't ever see any kind of Big 10 or Ivy League union in the forseeable future. Wisconsin and Minnesota hockey have more in common with their Great Plains & Rockies conference-mates than they do with the CCHA schools, as does Northern Michigan, who went back to the WCHA after a short stint in the CCHA. Also, the Ivy schools in ECAC Hockey have too much tradition with many of the non-Ivies in the conference (a lot of it going back to the pre-IL days) to easily give that up, not to mention 4 of the 6 schools that are D-III in other sports reside there, so they have common bonds with the Ivies. Because of the mishmash of schools that play hockey, the conferences (with the exception of the old ECAC, which more or less held all of the ECAC, HE, and Atlantic schools at one point) have largely been independent of other sports conferences. The main exception is Air Force, but the ties to its fellow service academy made sense for them to join Atlantic Hockey from the outcasts in CHA.

As far as schools "moving up", one needs to note that many schools are a part of the ACHA, NOT NCAA Hockey. The ACHA is for club teams from colleges, which means no scholarships and very little help from the colleges themselves. When you see a team "move up" like Robert Morris (who was quite successful in the ACHA ranks), that was a move years in the making, they had to come up with the money for scholarships, facilities (either built or rented), and equal scholarships for women's sports. You're not going to see an Illinois or Penn State just decide to jump up and see them go right into a proposed Big 10 league or an existing league (save for CHA). To be honest outside of PSU, I don't see any other B-10 schools anywhere near ready to step up into NCAA competition. Heck, right now Louisville is on more of a fast track than Illinois, IU, or Northwestern would be, mainly because if the club team is ran correctly and turns a little profit, our AD won't hesitate for a second to get facilities lined up and get money for scholarships.

The only moves I see possibly happening are UConn trying to get into Hockey East, and Navy maybe moving up from ACHA into CHA to take Air Force's old spot (being a service academy, they have a little more financial leeway to do so than most colleges). Unless we see a dearth of schools move into the NCAA from ACHA (which I don't see without a more stable/booming economy), we're not going to see many, if any, conference realignments like we have in other sports.


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 Post subject: Realigning D1 Hockey
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:56 am 
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If Louisville can start a varsity program, could we have Big East Hockey?

Louisville
Connecticut
Syracuse
Providence
Marquette
Notre Dame

If Penn State goes varsity, they can become the sixth Big Ten school:

Penn State
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Minnesota
Wisconsin


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 Post subject: Realigning D1 Hockey
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:02 am 
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It's fairly safe to say there will never be BE-sponsored hockey. Marquette isn't even in D1 of the ACHA, so there's almost zero interest of school-sponsored hockey, and Villanova and the 'Cuse don't have much of a priority in it (to that end neither does UofL yet, they're D3 in ACHA, but are planning on moving up to at least D2 next year). Providence will have no desire to leave Hockey East, and if UConn goes anywhere it'll be HE. If UofL would ever join the NCAA ranks it would be joining Notre Dame in the CCHA for sure.

Penn State would be the best bet to move up, and they would have their choice of either the CCHA or ECAC Hockey. Wisconsin and Minnesota have no interest in joining their Big 10 brethren across the Great Lakes in a hockey league.


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 Post subject: Realigning D1 Hockey
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:12 am 
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Come to think of it, I've got a couple of maps with all the conferences plotted out if anyone is interested in taking a look (or if there's a way to upload/post them on here). It's interesting to see how geography (not to mention the Boston market) is more important in hockey than other sports for the most part.


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 Post subject: Realigning D1 Hockey
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:53 pm 
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In 1991, The Pac Ten nearly sponsored hockey with Full Members Ariizona, Arizona State, USC, UCLA, Stanford, and Washington and Associate Members Northern Arizona, Portland State, Boise State, and Alaska-Anchorage, but it fell through when scholarship sponsorship checks to UCLA, USC, and Portland State bounced and the Arizona schools cancelled their varsity hockey programs.


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 Post subject: Realigning D1 Hockey
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:57 am 
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Quote:

Penn State would be the best bet to move up, and they would have their choice of either the CCHA or ECAC Hockey. Wisconsin and Minnesota have no interest in joining their Big 10 brethren across the Great Lakes in a hockey league.


I agree that UW and UM don't have interest in a BT hockey league right now or perhaps ever. However, does this situation change with the Big 10 network? In other words, what if the Big 10 showed ALL games on the BTN - would that change their attitute at all?


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 Post subject: Realigning D1 Hockey
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:21 am 
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I have asked this question on several Big 10 schools fans sites and there doesn't appear to be any interest in a Big 10 hockey league - even if ND joins the BT or others like PSU upgrade from club. They prefer to stay in the CCHA or WCHA.



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 Post subject: Realigning D1 Hockey
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:37 pm 
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In 1991, The Pac Ten nearly sponsored hockey with Full Members Ariizona, Arizona State, USC, UCLA, Stanford, and Washington and Associate Members Northern Arizona, Portland State, Boise State, and Alaska-Anchorage, but it fell through when scholarship sponsorship checks to UCLA, USC, and Portland State bounced and the Arizona schools cancelled their varsity hockey programs.


This would have been through the ACHA, as the Pac-10 schools (as well as Boise and Portland State) have not had NCAA hockey in recent history, if ever.


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 Post subject: Realigning D1 Hockey
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:44 pm 
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Quote:

Quote:

Penn State would be the best bet to move up, and they would have their choice of either the CCHA or ECAC Hockey. Wisconsin and Minnesota have no interest in joining their Big 10 brethren across the Great Lakes in a hockey league.


I agree that UW and UM don't have interest in a BT hockey league right now or perhaps ever. However, does this situation change with the Big 10 network? In other words, what if the Big 10 showed ALL games on the BTN - would that change their attitute at all?


They'd have some pretty huge hurdles getting clearance from the CCHA and WCHA. Then there are the other schools in the conferences. They're not going to be happy with the B10N broadcasting just their members, they're going to want their TV time too. But if they end up broadcasting those schools, especially the DII with DI hockey schools, that's extra money funneling in their way, which other schools in their main conferences would probably have issues with.


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 Post subject: Realigning D1 Hockey
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:15 am 
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Quote:

Quote:


I agree that UW and UM don't have interest in a BT hockey league right now or perhaps ever. However, does this situation change with the Big 10 network? In other words, what if the Big 10 showed ALL games on the BTN - would that change their attitute at all?


They'd have some pretty huge hurdles getting clearance from the CCHA and WCHA. Then there are the other schools in the conferences. They're not going to be happy with the B10N broadcasting just their members, they're going to want their TV time too. But if they end up broadcasting those schools, especially the DII with DI hockey schools, that's extra money funneling in their way, which other schools in their main conferences would probably have issues with.


Not sure what you mean Tarkiokid. The idea behind this is the Big 10 network. There are already 5 teams playing Div 1 hockey - UW, UM, MSU, OSU, and Minny. It would require those teams to leave the CCHA or WCHA and join this new league. If one school upgrades (PSU) or another joins the Big 10 (ND), then I think the Big 10 could 'theoretically' have everyone participate in a Big 10 hockey league. Although, I honestly don't know what the minimum membership number is (6 or 8 or more) for hockey.

All of those Big 10 hockey games could and should be shown on the BTN.

The BTN is already going to be showing some hockey games but there seems to be no interest from UW or Minny to join. Also, here an article I found that talks about Big 10 hockey realignment and # of games:

http://www.madison.com/tct/sports/204055

The architects of the Big Ten Network believe that men's hockey and baseball provide significant programming opportunities, but pledge that will not affect the status of either sport at the University of Wisconsin.

That is, the Badgers will continue to skate in the Western Collegiate Hockey Association for the foreseeable future, and baseball will remain defunct.

In a meeting Thursday afternoon in Madison with several representatives of The Capital Times, Big Ten Conference commissioner Jim Delany characterized hockey as a "center of excellence" and "very relevant." And while Big Ten Network president Mark Silverman said that only 10 games involving conference teams will air this season, "we think that will increase each year." A Big Ten spokeswoman said Friday that as many as three to four of those games will involve Wisconsin.

Delany said the Big Ten will not force a superconference concept on its five member schools that offer the sport -- Wisconsin and Minnesota in the WCHA, and Michigan, Michigan State and Ohio State in the Central Collegiate Hockey Association. Instead, he is interested in creating a tournament involving the schools that would be modeled after the ACC/Big Ten Challenge in men's basketball.

The prospect of a Big Ten conference is a long-discussed and polarizing topic in hockey circles. Proponents believe a merger would provide more of an identity among casual fans, and therefore greater credibility. Opponents believe it would be a step backwards for college hockey on the whole, because it would choke off exposure and revenue for other WCHA and CCHA schools whose other sports compete in Division II or Division I mid-major conferences.

"We're not trying to replace the structure. We're trying to work with the structure," said Delany, who has met with the commissioners of both hockey conferences. "But I also believe that the Big Ten brand is one of the great brands in sports today. And I think if we could find a way, not to have a Big Ten championship, but to help hockey and have hockey help the Big Ten Network, I think those are not mutually exclusive goals. I think they can work together.

"But we're not going any place in hockey without 100 percent support from our ADs and our coaches."

Baseball, on the other hand, figures to be a sizable draw for the Big Ten Network during the spring. Wisconsin dropped its program in 1991, citing gender equity and financial concerns, and remains the only conference school without the sport.

UW athletic director Barry Alvarez said the topic of bringing back baseball had not been discussed either internally or with Big Ten Network representatives. He steadfastly opposes the idea because he believes it would negatively affect the 23-sport program on the whole, in part because at least one women's sport would need to be added to address Title IX concerns.

"I'm able to allow all 23 coaches to compete at a high level. I'm able to finance them, so that they can be competitive. I just don't feel right now, with some of our construction, and our strategic plan as far as where we want to go with facilities, that we want to add -- it wouldn't be just one sport, it would be at least two sports," Alvarez said.

"And when you really research what a baseball team would cost -- and now we don't even have a facility -- it would impact a lot of our other sports. I just don't think that's fair right now to do it. I don't choose to do that right now."


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 Post subject: Realigning D1 Hockey
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:01 pm 
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If Wisconsin wanted to add baseball, they'd probably have to add Women's Field Hockey or Gymnastics. Field Hockey is currently sponsored by six other Big Ten schools and Gymnastics is sponsored by seven other schools.


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 Post subject: Realigning D1 Hockey
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:05 am 
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Quote:

Quote:


They'd have some pretty huge hurdles getting clearance from the CCHA and WCHA. Then there are the other schools in the conferences. They're not going to be happy with the B10N broadcasting just their members, they're going to want their TV time too. But if they end up broadcasting those schools, especially the DII with DI hockey schools, that's extra money funneling in their way, which other schools in their main conferences would probably have issues with.


Not sure what you mean Tarkiokid. The idea behind this is the Big 10 network. There are already 5 teams playing Div 1 hockey - UW, UM, MSU, OSU, and Minny. It would require those teams to leave the CCHA or WCHA and join this new league. If one school upgrades (PSU) or another joins the Big 10 (ND), then I think the Big 10 could 'theoretically' have everyone participate in a Big 10 hockey league. Although, I honestly don't know what the minimum membership number is (6 or 8 or more) for hockey.

All of those Big 10 hockey games could and should be shown on the BTN.

The BTN is already going to be showing some hockey games but there seems to be no interest from UW or Minny to join. Also, here an article I found that talks about Big 10 hockey realignment and # of games:

http://www.madison.com/tct/sports/204055

The architects of the Big Ten Network believe that men's hockey and baseball provide significant programming opportunities, but pledge that will not affect the status of either sport at the University of Wisconsin.

That is, the Badgers will continue to skate in the Western Collegiate Hockey Association for the foreseeable future, and baseball will remain defunct.

In a meeting Thursday afternoon in Madison with several representatives of The Capital Times, Big Ten Conference commissioner Jim Delany characterized hockey as a "center of excellence" and "very relevant." And while Big Ten Network president Mark Silverman said that only 10 games involving conference teams will air this season, "we think that will increase each year." A Big Ten spokeswoman said Friday that as many as three to four of those games will involve Wisconsin.

Delany said the Big Ten will not force a superconference concept on its five member schools that offer the sport -- Wisconsin and Minnesota in the WCHA, and Michigan, Michigan State and Ohio State in the Central Collegiate Hockey Association. Instead, he is interested in creating a tournament involving the schools that would be modeled after the ACC/Big Ten Challenge in men's basketball.

The prospect of a Big Ten conference is a long-discussed and polarizing topic in hockey circles. Proponents believe a merger would provide more of an identity among casual fans, and therefore greater credibility. Opponents believe it would be a step backwards for college hockey on the whole, because it would choke off exposure and revenue for other WCHA and CCHA schools whose other sports compete in Division II or Division I mid-major conferences.

"We're not trying to replace the structure. We're trying to work with the structure," said Delany, who has met with the commissioners of both hockey conferences. "But I also believe that the Big Ten brand is one of the great brands in sports today. And I think if we could find a way, not to have a Big Ten championship, but to help hockey and have hockey help the Big Ten Network, I think those are not mutually exclusive goals. I think they can work together.

"But we're not going any place in hockey without 100 percent support from our ADs and our coaches."

Baseball, on the other hand, figures to be a sizable draw for the Big Ten Network during the spring. Wisconsin dropped its program in 1991, citing gender equity and financial concerns, and remains the only conference school without the sport.

UW athletic director Barry Alvarez said the topic of bringing back baseball had not been discussed either internally or with Big Ten Network representatives. He steadfastly opposes the idea because he believes it would negatively affect the 23-sport program on the whole, in part because at least one women's sport would need to be added to address Title IX concerns.

"I'm able to allow all 23 coaches to compete at a high level. I'm able to finance them, so that they can be competitive. I just don't feel right now, with some of our construction, and our strategic plan as far as where we want to go with facilities, that we want to add -- it wouldn't be just one sport, it would be at least two sports," Alvarez said.

"And when you really research what a baseball team would cost -- and now we don't even have a facility -- it would impact a lot of our other sports. I just don't think that's fair right now to do it. I don't choose to do that right now."


Thanks for finding this article. I don't know about all of you, but when I read this, Jim Delany isn't exactly closing the door on a Big Ten hockey league at all. It certainly won't be forced, but it's not very much of a stretch at all to think that the 5 Big Ten schools that currently have hockey programs would band together at some point. When push comes to shove, are schools such as Michigan or Wisconsin going to act in the best interests of the Big Ten or the CCHA or WHA? I understand that the various hockey league ties might be deep, but we're also talking about a number of schools that have been Big Ten members for 100 years or more that now has its own television network. If we've learned anything over the years, it's that money rules in the end.


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