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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:41 am 
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The state of Louisiana has about 4.5 million people. Louisiana has 2 FBS schools, 1 Private FBS schools and 4 FCS schools. Houston and the Beaumont area combine for 6 million people. Yet 1 FBS, 1 private FBS, 1 FCS... Lamar will fill that void.


Looking at the map, College Station is roughly the same distance from Houston as Beaumont. Wouldn't Texas A&M count as part of Houston's market?


Well in technical terms, no. The country is divided up into media markets that rotate around a dominant metro area where the top TV stations were located. It is not as simple as drawing a circle around big cities though. The divisions generally follow county lines, with certain counties being considered part of certain media markets and other being part of neighboring media markets. Almost none of those are even round.

Sam Houston State (SHSU) for example is in a community miles outside of Houston. You'd have to really fudge it to call Conroe a Suburb of Houston, but the county they are in is in the Houston Media Market. Technically that means if they wanted to have their games on TV to conroe and the neighboring small towns, they would get the games broadcast on a TV station in the Houston Market. Essentially, they cannot make it smaller than that.

Lamar on the other hand is in the tiny Beaumont Market. This means that if they wanted to get their games on TV they could potentially put them on a local Beaumont TV station. There is no gurantee that that station would be seen in Houston though, because it may be seen as too niche. Now obviously the business point of college sports is to expose young people to your university. Lamar would clearly try to get their games on in the Houston Media Market. The problem would be that TV viewership would drive that and as I stated before, Lamar is a small public. They don't have many alumni at all. Would they be able to draw viewership in Houston? As an adverstiser, would you rather adverstise to Lamar or the filthy rich, high profile rice fan? Rice draws 22K a game in FBS IN HOUSTON. Would you rather advertise to UH fans with their enourmous alumni base --- most of which live in Houston. Would you rather sell to SHSU or Lamar? SHSU is twice the size of Lamar and their entire enrollment and most of their alumni base again, live in the houston media market. Lamar's enrollment lives in the Beaumont market and probably at minimum, half of their alumni base is also there.

If there is no viewership and little advertising revenue in broadcasting in a region, TV will not jump to do it. TV stations and networks likewise have to see that to be entusiastic about a conference and pay them well. Lower tier FBS conferences are very reliant on TV revenue, so TV drives a number of membership decisions.

I mapped all of this out because I had a very caustic (but very media savy) guy named the Metropolitan hand me my lunch in a very rude fashion on this site on a TV market discussion because I had forgotten all of this from my intro to marketing class 15 years ago. I think he was a media planner or buyer or something. Not everyone knows all of that crap. I hope I add value in this area to the discussion, without being an ass.

What I will do now is look up a school in Wikipedia, see where they are located, see what county it is, then pop over to the Truck ads media market map (http://truckads.com/licensed_affiliates1.asp#usamap) and locate that county then plot it onto my personal color coded national media market map.

Texas A&M is in college station. College Station is in Brazos County, which is part of the Waco media Market. A&M is however a very large university with an enrollment of over 46K and an enthustiastic sports university drawing 77K to football and 8K to basketball. A&M is considered a state flagship (UT & A&M are both) and as such have statewide followings. A&M is an excellent academic school and as such, a large chunk of their Alumni won't stay in college Station, because more money can be made elsewhere by a graduate with a well-respected degree --- Houston being a notable example. A&M being located in a small town (College Station Bryan is only 190K) sends the majority of their graduates out into the state to work. An abundance go to Houston and DFW. That makes them TV relevant in both markets and would even if they were not a flagship.

It is likely that A&M has more alumni in Houston than Lamar has alumni in total and that their average alumnis in houston make 1.5 to 2 times as much as Lamar alumni and as such are an audience with a lot more disposable income for advertisers to chase. (Not hating. TAMU "former students" average more than my school alumni as well.)

Houston doesn't have a great void in Universities and pro teams claiming their markets. For this reason, while I do think there is room for a houston market native, mid-sized public school outside the NFL and NBA killzones (like SHSU) to make the jump. I do not know if the media support would be there to drive a Lamar jump.

Now all this said, we may soon see a definitive change in the default way TV advertising is sold. As pay perview and subscription TV takes hold, other universities will develop revenue models that support FBs pushes. I don't think Lamar with it's very small and relatively poor alumni base will gain from that emerging business model.

The advent of cable TV displacing broadcast could help them a lot though. Cable TV can potential erase the Market boundaries that remain from broadcast. That might make a conference look as Lamar and see Houston relevance, but at the end of the day they are still a school with a tiny, comparitively poor alumni base.

Finally one last point. Every non-BCS school is struggling to paint themselves or failing that, their conference as a BCS caliber. How does adding a small public with average academics help? Lamar might optimistically draw 22K as an FBS school. How does that help? Lamar is not a rich public, like U of Cinnci. They have little to hang their hats on other than proximity to Houston, and competition (Texans, Rockets, UH, Rice, TAMU, UT, SHSU, and even Baylor), the media market lines, and their size minimize that advantage.

Frankly today both SHSU and SFA have better FBS arguements. SHSU I have already discussed, SFA is also in a small media market (260K TV Tyler market) but could draw as much houston interest as Lamar and could also draw interest in the "empty" Shereveport market (384K TVs). (By "Empty" I mean only that there is no FBS school in the market and I have found no mention of a football team at all above high school level within 50 miles of the Shreveport city limits.)

This is why I say Lamar should get into FCS and build support to go with SHSU and SFA to FBS in 10-15 years. Together they could get someone's attention by leveraging their combined alumni bases into real Houston Metro relevancy.


Last edited by finiteman on Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:55 am 
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You are correct about Monroe and I missed a school. My point was questioning finiteman logic in that the Sunbelt would refuse Lamar because the market was too small. The Beaumont-Port Arthur area is much bigger than the Monroe area. Lamar is a bigger school than La-Monroe. Something is wrong with finiteman logic or something is wrong with the universe.


And I have no problem with being questioned. Unlike other folks, I don't do media palnning or buying for a living. I post here specifically because I want to be corrected by you smart folks when I am not seeing the forrest for the trees.

I have looked at all of the FBS schools and most of the FCS schools and the larger lower division schools and have reached my conclusions. I think you have to be in a market of at least 300K or be able to pull multiple markets of at least 300K to be FBS interesting and frankly 400K+ is a lot better. Native markets are generally better than stringing neighboring virgin markets together to reach 400K. Richer communities or higher rated academic schools have more buying power for their advertisers than lower rated schools.

I base this partially on looking at the FBS schools that are successful and or coveted and those which are not. What do they have in common?

The Beaumont media market is 164K TV households. The Monroe TV market is 178K TV households. As the Sunbelt, you might take both if pressed, but they aren't what you hunt.


Last edited by finiteman on Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:30 pm 
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You make up stuff as you go. Facts mean nothing to you. I'm not about to debunk all the bull you posted, but I'll do a few easy ones.


Quote:

Quote:
You are correct about Monroe and I missed a school. My point was questioning finiteman logic in that the Sunbelt would refuse Lamar because the market was too small. The Beaumont-Port Arthur area is much bigger than the Monroe area. Lamar is a bigger school than La-Monroe. Something is wrong with finiteman logic or something is wrong with the universe.


And I have no problem with being questioned. Unlike other folks, I don't do media palnning or buying for a living. I post here specifically because I want to be corrected by you smart folks when I am not seeing the forrest for the trees.

I have looked at all of the FBS schools and most of the FCS schools and the larger lower division schools and have reached my conclusions. I think you have to be in a market of at least 300K or be able to pull multiple markets of at least 300K to be FBS interesting and frankly 400K+ is a lot better. Richer communities or higher rated academic schools have more buying power for their advertisers than lower rated schools.

I base this partially on looking at the FBS schools that are successful and or coveted and those which are not. What do they have in common?

The Beaumont media market is 164K TV households. The Monroe TV market is 178K TV households. As the Sunbelt, you might take both if pressed, but they aren't what you hunt.


Monroe is a bigger media market than the Beaumont-Port Arthur area. WRONG AS USUAL

Fact:Monroe MSA pop. 172,000... Beaumont/Port Arthur MSA pop. 385,000..2007 estimates 405,000

Texas Tech Lubbock MSA is 261,000


Quote:
I think you have to be in a market of at least 300K or be able to pull multiple markets of at least 300K to be FBS interesting and frankly 400K+ is a lot better.


huh what?

Lamar student pop. is not 9k. That 9k figure was the population after Hurricane Rita made a direct hit on the school. Hurricane Rita was 2 years ago.

Lamar is not traditional rivals with SFA or SHSU. Why am I not surprised you're wrong again. Lamar is rivals with La-tech, ULL, and UNT.


Quote:
I think you have to be in a market of at least 300K or be able to pull multiple markets of at least 300K to be FBS interesting and frankly 400K+ is a lot better.

La-monroe has 7k students and a MSA 172k.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:41 pm 
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UH and Rice played the other day. Att. 1100. In a market of 5 million.



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:14 pm 
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SHSU is twice the size of Lamar and their entire enrollment

I had some time to check current enrollment.

Sam Houston 15,709
Lamar 11,300

Twice you say...

According to the southland forum, they expect 12,000 in the fall and another 2k-3k because of football.


You make stuff up to fit your views., Lafayette is not a tiny market. Beaumont is not a tiny market.
here is another one.

Quote:
Frankly today both SHSU and SFA have better FBS arguements. SHSU I have already discussed, SFA is also in a small media market (260K TV Tyler market) but could draw as much houston interest as Lamar and could also draw interest in the "empty" Shereveport market (384K TVs). (By "Empty" I mean only that there is no FBS school in the market and I have found no mention of a football team at all above high school level within 50 miles of the Shreveport city limits.)
Tyler market is 194k and that does NOT include the Lufkin/Nacogdoches area. Just make it up as you go. And SFA student pop. is 11.5k and Lufkin/Nacogdoches is about 70k.
Lamar is MUCH closer to Houston than SFA. Lamar is closer to Houston then SFA to Shreveport. Lamar is about the same distant to Houston as SFA to Tyler. And Tyler is
only 60 miles from Dallas. Look at a map before you post.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:06 pm 
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You are making some mistakes. I will correct them, but please ratchet down the hate. You have been extremely rude for someone who might discover he has the wrong information. We should all seek truth. I am not trying to offend you.


Quote:
Monroe is a bigger media market than the Beaumont-Port Arthur area. WRONG AS USUAL

Fact:Monroe MSA pop. 172,000... Beaumont/Port Arthur MSA pop. 385,000..2007 estimates 405,000


MSA = Metropolitan Statistical Area = how many people live in a metropolitan area.

DMA = Designated Market Area = How many people live in a TV market.

Media Ads are sold generally based on DMAs, not MSAs. I have made the same mistake before. I am not ridiculing, it is a common mistake.

The DMA TV household numbers for Monroe and Beaumont are no longer up on Wikipedia, but their rankings still are. Eldorado/Monroe is #136 and Beaumont is #141 out of the 210 DMAs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_market
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_North_America_by_media_market
and here is a map of the DMAs
http://truckads.com/licensed_affiliates1.asp#usamap


Quote:
Texas Tech Lubbock MSA is 261,000

huh what?


I grew up in West Texas, so I'll be happy to explain this. Texas Tech is the largest Unversity in West Texas. The best way to think about it, is to envision the state of Texas as two states, East Texas (the heavily metropolitan area) and West Texas (the mostly rural area). Texas Tech is equal in popularity to A&M or UT in the West Texas area, although it is a given that the better students will go east. There are a number of media Markets in West Texas, El Paso, Odessa, Lubbock, Amarillo, Wichita Falls, Abilene, and San Angelo. Tech is certainly in the running to be the #1 school in every one of those DMAs. El Paso is the only DMA with a dominant local in that region. Amarillo & Wichita Falls have lower division schools with strong followings, but Tech still historically overshadowed them. (I know they did and do in Amarillo, think they still do in WF as well, but that was a little futher from my home.)

I am going to write a post about the impact of names today or tomorrow that might help shed some additional light on this --- at least I hope it might.


Quote:
Lamar student pop. is not 9k. That 9k figure was the population after Hurricane Rita made a direct hit on the school. Hurricane Rita was 2 years ago.


Fair enough. I pull a lot of my information from Wikipedia and various sites on the web. The hurricane may have suppressed their enrollment 20-30% over the last few years. Whether Lamar has historically been in closer to 9K students or 12K students doesn't hugely impact the size of their alumni base or my view of their current FBS potential.


Quote:
Lamar is not traditional rivals with SFA or SHSU. Why am I not surprised you're wrong again. Lamar is rivals with La-tech, ULL, and UNT.


Now this criticism, I will accept. I thought it was likely as all 3 are in the same conference, in the same region, and share attribs (all 3 schools are the only athletically noteworthy schools in Texas named after famous Texans rather than towns, regions, cities, or the state), that they would likely be long term rivals rather than short term ones. Fair enough.

In my defense, I live in Denton and I have never heard that Lamar was considered a rival by us, but to be fair UNT is a music school and it has been over a generation since Lamar played football. The football fans I know are more recnt than that and gravitate to think upwards in terms of rivalries (Tech, Oklahoma, TAMU, UT, ect.) even though we generally get smoked. The Sunbelt seems to be creating some rivalries for us at a similar level, but I really haven't heard of any passion for "downwards" rivals. In spite of our recent BB success it is pretty fringe. It is hard to find many students who are into football and basketball.


Quote:

Quote:
I think you have to be in a market of at least 300K or be able to pull multiple markets of at least 300K to be FBS interesting and frankly 400K+ is a lot better.

La-monroe has 7k students and a MSA 172k.


And a DMA of 178K TVs. This kind of makes my point. For a NUMBER of years, the sunbelt fans were loudly bemoaning ULM being a member because they brought so little to the table. Poor athletics. Small School. Poor Academics. Small media Market.

It is a credit to the school that they have survived that and are primed to use football to fuel growth.

As I have said repeatedly, Lamar is cutting their throat by not playing football --- I think they were slowly bleeding enrollment not playing --- but a small public with a small market jumping to FBS is generally not smart. It is too early to see if Lamar is the exception to this.


Last edited by finiteman on Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:01 pm 
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I agree with you. UTSA has very little community support and student support for its athletics. Last night basketball Attendance: 1,087. However I think the potential is there for UTSA to be another South Florida.


I don't know if I would go quite that far, but I would agree their FBS future is bright indeed. The problem for UTSA is that they are in an NBA killzone. SA is a huge market for a University, but not great with an NBA team competing for the public at large's BB entertainment $$$. UTSA at best might get up to 6K a game in basketball if they were in a very good basketball conference (good = lots of well attended BB programs in conference). A likely fate is 1-4K per game in BB.

In football they have the vacant Alamodome awaiting them. That would be good and bad. With No NFL or FBS competition and a large student body, 30-35K attendence could be acheived in 5 years even though the stadium is a little farther from campus than you'd like.


Quote:
Texas st, same as UTSA but with a much smaller market that prefers UT sports over Texas st. It'll be much harder for them.


Again, we agree. Being second fiddle in that market hurts. They have to go up with UTSA, or they may never get a shot to go. They could be a much better basketball school than UTSA and really that could be their identity. I think they could potentially fill Strahan collesium in a good conference. I think football might lag. In an enlarged Bobcat stadium they could draw 20-25K in FBS.


Quote:
Lamar is a different situation. Lamar played I-A football. However unlike Lamar's conference rivals in La-tech, UNT, and ULL, Lamar followed the Southland into I-AA. Fan support dried up and the program was dropped. I think Lamar goal is to, at the minimum, get back to where they were. You don't need $30 million to start a FCS team.


I think you overlook the fact that that was a generation ago. "Getting back to where they were" would be a huge accomplishment.

Concerning "You don't need $30 million to start a FCS team." in general you are right, but Lamar is going to have to spend several million to get its facilities up to snuff for even an FCS run. I do think they need to spend that money. Cardinal stadium sits 17.5K --- great for FCS. They will have to spend much more to legitimately compete at the FBS level. 30M would likely be the ballpark in that scenario.

http://www.texasbob.com/stadium/stadium.php?id=339

http://beaumontenterprise.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19044610&BRD=2287&PAG=461&dept_id=512588&rfi=6

http://www.kfdm.com/news/football_23681___article.html/students_return.html

Additionally, Lamar does not have a lot of on campus housing and the surrounding area is a little rough, so many students commute. That has gotten a lot better recently, but despite their acknowledged football craziness, that reality works against them.

I think it is promising that cooler heads at Lamar and a lot of the fanbase seem to think jump to FCS with FBS the eventual dream/plan rather than jump right to FBS ASAP. I think that is a wise plan.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:09 pm 
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UH and Rice played the other day. Att. 1100. In a market of 5 million.


Neither school puts the right focus on basketball and both schools play in the Houston Rocket's NBA killzone. I have mentioned the effects of pro killzones before. In a stronger basketball conference with strong teams they might get up to average as much as 6-7K at UH and 4K at Rice per season from time to time, but attendance will always be suppressed and difficult to maintain because of their proximity to the Rockets.

Both schools are evaluted more by TV potential rather than fan attendance than a more removed school like Lamar would be.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:20 pm 
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SHSU is twice the size of Lamar and their entire enrollment

I had some time to check current enrollment.

Sam Houston 15,709
Lamar 11,300

Twice you say...

According to the southland forum, they expect 12,000 in the fall and another 2k-3k because of football.


Double was, in retrospect, an overstatement based off their supressed enrollment numbers after the storm. A more accurate statement would have been that SHSU is an FBS bubble school at just over15K--- what I consider the low "somewhat safe" threshold, while Lamar is not.



Quote:

Quote:
Frankly today both SHSU and SFA have better FBS arguements. SHSU I have already discussed, SFA is also in a small media market (260K TV Tyler market) but could draw as much houston interest as Lamar and could also draw interest in the "empty" Shereveport market (384K TVs). (By "Empty" I mean only that there is no FBS school in the market and I have found no mention of a football team at all above high school level within 50 miles of the Shreveport city limits.)
Tyler market is 194k and that does NOT include the Lufkin/Nacogdoches area. Just make it up as you go. And SFA student pop. is 11.5k and Lufkin/Nacogdoches is about 70k.
Lamar is MUCH closer to Houston than SFA. Lamar is closer to Houston then SFA to Shreveport. Lamar is about the same distant to Houston as SFA to Tyler. And Tyler is
only 60 miles from Dallas. Look at a map before you post.


Again, the hate is over the top. Please read the links about DMAs.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:26 am 
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Read what a media market is... A media market, broadcast market, media region, designated market area, DMA or simply market is a region where the population can receive the same (or similar) television and radio station offerings, and may also include other types of media including newspapers and Internet content. They can coincide with metropolitan areas, though rural regions with few significant population centers can also be designated as markets. Conversely, very large metropolitan areas can sometimes be subdivided into multiple segments. Market regions may overlap, meaning that people residing on the edge of one media market may be able to receive content from other nearby markets. They are widely used in ratings, which are compiled in the United States by Nielsen Media Research (television) and Arbitron (radio).

Media markets OVERLAP and SUBDIVIDED. Does this mean anything to you or am I wasting my time.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:05 am 
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And don't you think it's nice for former Dallas Cowboys Coach Barry Switzer and Jimmy Johnson to become consultants for a tiny school in a tiny market of a half million.

SELA started their FCS football from nothing for $5 Million.
Why would Lamar need +$30 million. The stadium is still there as well as the fieldhouse. Both are used in high school games. Upgrading the stadium and turf should cost no more $7-$10 Million and I'm stretching. So what will the remaining $20 Million be used for?


Last edited by playa4life on Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:56 pm 
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The board of regents have approved $1M for a new soccer field, $6.5M for football stadium renovations, $5M for the football fieldhouse replacement, $3.5M for a new fieldhouse for baseball, softball and soccer, $950,000 for synthetic turf, $1.2M for a new softball field, and $5M for baseball stadium renovations over the next 5 years. That's about $23M in athletic facility upgrades, and if playa4life is correct about donations, they still have another $7M to spend.

A new $19M dorm was also approved to be built in the next few years. Lamar already has a 10K seat basketball arena. Although no one from the University has said they plan to go FBS, I'm sure they have considered it privately. Lamar will compete in the SLC for at least 4 or 5 more years, and based on the how things are going with the football team and with conference shakeups, will probably decide sometime after 2011 whether to go FBS or not.

Lamar is in a smaller market than say UTSA or Texas State, but they will basically have a monopoly on the market which those other schools don't. There's HS sports and a minor league hockey team that Lamar has compete with for fans, but that's about it. They should average at least 15K in football their first few years. After that it's hard to guess, the honeymoon will be over and they'll need to start winning.


Last edited by centexguy on Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:49 pm 
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I think this is not likely. ND rejects the Big 10 as is, they won't want in after the Big 10 takes a PR hit of that magnitude. Additionally, I think the Pac 10 would encourage them to go 10 again. In this scenario, (granting total loyalty in the ranks of your Big North ---that Missou would not immediately bolt for the Big 10), I would think:

Big Ten:
Northwestern
Purdue
Indiana
Michigan
Michigan State
Ohio State
Pittsburgh
Penn State
Syracuse
Rutgers

That makes the Big 10 footprint every important school (athletically AND Academically important) from NY to Chicago.


Actually, in this specific scenerio - with ND not joining such a conference, I would think the powers at be would also invite UConn and BC into the conference. This would give the Big 10 a huge demographic that would now include Boston. This would keep the Big10 schools in the Western Division and the former Eastern Indys/BE schools in the East

----------- West
Northwestern
Purdue
Indiana
Michigan
Michigan State
Ohio State
------------- East
Pittsburgh
Penn State
Syracuse
Rutgers
UConn
BC

Rivalry Week:
UM-OSU
MSU-NW
Indiana-Purdue
Pitt-PSU
BC-SU
UConn-RU

BTW - There would also be room to goto 14 (not that its likely in this scenerio) but if ND sees the 'light' and joins - you invite Maryland. ;)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:53 pm 
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"The move came after the Committee to Return Football to Lamar announced that over $25 million had been raised from private sources. The largest gift was a donation of $10 million by O'Reilly Auto Parts CEO and Lamar alumni David O'Reilly. "

This is not counting the Texas st system money.

Centexguy, Tubbs said it, FCS would not be successful in Beaumont. Maybe he is not ready to piss off the Southland.



The TSUS Board of Regents has updated the list of projects approved for Lamar.

For 2008:

LIBRARY RENOVATION $6,500,000
LUCAS RENOV & CHERRY ENGINEERING LABORATORY $6,800,000
MUSIC BLDG RENOVATION & ADDITION $2,000,000
NEW SOCCER FIELD $1,000,000

For 2009:

CARDINAL STADIUM RENOVATION $6,500,000
HIGGINS FIELDHOUSE REPLACEMENT $5,000,000
MUSIC BLDG RENOVATION & ADDITION $4,400,000
NEW ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES BLDG (Renov Brooks/Shivers) $3,000,000
NEW FIELDHOUSE for SOCCER, SOFTBALL, BASEBALL $3,500,000
SYNTHETIC TURF $950,000

For 2010:

CARDINAL VILLAGE V $19,200,000
NEW ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES BLDG (Renov Brooks/Shivers) $4,000,000
NEW SOFTBALL FIELD $1,200,000


For 2011:

BIOLOGY BUILDING $12,400,000
HEALTH & HUMAN PERF COMPLEX A RENOVATION $2,600,000
REPLACE FACILITIES MANAGEMENT COMPLEX $10,900,000

Plus other projects in 2012 and 2013, including a $20 Million research bldg and a $18 Million performing arts center.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:19 pm 
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"The move came after the Committee to Return Football to Lamar announced that over $25 million had been raised from private sources. The largest gift was a donation of $10 million by O'Reilly Auto Parts CEO and Lamar alumni David O'Reilly. "

Isn't that from a fantasy website? That's not a real donation to the school. But I have heard that Lamar has raised quite a bit of money behind the scenes. I bet they already have donors lined up to pay for all those athletic facility upgrades since no tax money can be used for athletics.

Tubbs (Lamar's AD) may have said FCS would not be successful in Beaumont, but they won't make the jump unless the circumstances are just right. Lamar's athletic budget is hovering around $5M a year now without football. In 2010 their budget will probably be in the $8 to $10M range. For LU to stay competitive in a FBS conference they would need a $15M budget mininum. And if there's no FBS conference for them to go to then they'll stay in the SLC.


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