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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:46 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:05 am
Posts: 556
Location: Dallas
Let's get some discussion going. I think there are a number of schools that should be playing football or playing football at a higher division for the health of their universities. I wondered about the format of addressing these schools on this forum and I reached the conclusion that each school should have a thread that starts with a poster making their arguement for upgrading and laying out the case. This is the format I would encourage you to use if in creating your new thread if you have the info. If you don't, I or others will try to supply what we have in a response and you can update the opening post in the thread.

School: X
Location: city, state
Media Market: (if you don't know this go to
Undergrad or total Enrollment:
Current US News Academic ranking: (found a bit down if you click the links at
Current designation: FBS/FCS/IAAA/II/III (chose one)
Proposed future desination: FBS/FCS/IAAA/II/III (choose one)
Stadium: on campus/near campus/off campus
Stadium size:
Football attendance:
NFL competition:
BB Arena: on campus/near campus/off campus
BB Arena size:
BB attendance:
NBA competition:


(In this section you build your case. Do they have the neccessary student body to fill a stadium? Do they have the alumni base to fuel advertising? Are they near an empty large metro area? Do they excell in academics or athletics? Do they resemble other universities? Are there no nearby competitors? Are there no NFL or NBA killzones nearby? Do they have their own communities? Make your arguements.)

Remember, put these in their own threads so we can discuss and focus on one university at a time!

Last edited by finiteman on Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:24 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:05 am
Posts: 556
Location: Dallas
Are there any universities you want to see with a thread? EIther create it or just let me know. I have a lot of demographic, endowment, and attendance info and try to get on every week. It may not happen immediately, but it will happen eventually.

In general, I think a public school should have an enrollment of 15K+ to think about it. Schools can do it with less, but current examples suggest that smaller upgrades struggle mightily. Additionally, a lot of public upgrades are financed in part by student fees. 15K seems about the point where you can get the neccessary income and are not gouging your students/ hitting and being limited by state or university system student fee limits and where you have a large enough alumni base to generate the additional funding needed to upgrade.

Privates can be viable candidates with less, but really probably need to have good athletic histories and/or a ton of money, and even then it may not make sense as a private with an enrollment of 10K or less is probably going to be maxxed at 30K attendance at the FBS level. It can make as much sense for a small private to aim at becoming one of the FCS schools who draw 20K+ a game. The scale of FCS fits most privates and could allow them to develop positive football financial models. FCS offers the medium sized private the ability to become an FCS national power ala Montana or Deleware drawing 20K a game while additionally providing the opportunity to participate in the very financially healthy BB March madness tourney. Really schools need to start building up FCS --- it is a good deal.

(Digressing for a moment, IMO the future of FCS will have a number of power schools with 22-25K stadiums who are netting 2-4M a year in profit. FCS today is largely a financial abyss today because almost accross the board FCS schools stadiums are too small. Most FCS schools have 15K stadiums or smaller today. Some schools like Montana have figured it out. I think in the near future you will see many more schools emulating the montana financial model.)

Richmond for example could jump to FBS, but does it make sense for their university? In general, I think you might find that FCS schools will be more likely to jump if they are in a region where at the FCS level the basketball conference homes are slim pickings, but at the FBS level they are better.

If I seriously question any viablility I will be slower to get to it.

Schools that appear to be moving up so they (probably) won't get this type of thread (from me anyway):
Texas State
Jacksonville State (Alabama) (?)
UNC Charlotte (?)
Georgia Southern (?)
Lamar (?)
Sam Houston State (?)

My upcoming schools:
U Mass
Northern Arizona
Missouri State
Illinois State
Southern Illinois
N. Colorado -maybe
Wichita State
App State

Last edited by finiteman on Sun May 04, 2008 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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