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 Post subject: Disband the MWC
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:18 pm 
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March 19th and the dingbats at this conference still don't know how to schedule their up coming football season.

Move BYU and Utah to the Big 12, should be a good fit for all.

Move Nevada-Las Vegas and San Diego State to the Pac 10. Again, a good fit for all.

Air Force should either go independent or form a conference with the other two academies, Notre Dame and anybody else interested, maybe Hawaii. The academies don't worry that much about their travel budgets and Irish fans would love a trip to Hawaii every other year.

Texas Christian, join up with UTEP.

The remainder, Colorado State, Wyoming and New Mexico, into the WAC or maybe the Big Sky.

College football just does not deserve the dunderheads that are running the MWC who should all be sitting in the unemployment line.



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 Post subject: Disband the MWC
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:25 pm 
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Why would the Pac-10 want UNLV and San Diego State? Aside being nearby, which seems to hardly ever matter in conference affiliation decisions by the big 6.


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 Post subject: Disband the MWC
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:19 am 
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Location: Portland! (and about time!)
That conference engineered the biggest steal in the nation. They get $10 million a year from CBS College Sports and associated partners. ESPN certainly didn't value them that much after their 7-year contract (probably by half at best).

If you're upset about relative conference exposure, and perhaps by the way the commissioner operates, I hear you. The money matters more, if it can be saved.

BTW- the schedule isn't waiting on the commissioner. It's waiting on TV networks to settle dates and times.


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 Post subject: Disband the MWC
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:01 pm 
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Are you kidding me?

The locations, alone, are worth their weight in gold.

Both are easy to get to and fun destinations.


Both schools offer programs that already rival the bottom half of the Pac 10 in most sports. Granted SEC fans would put the Pac 10 down even if they added Alabama and Tennessee, but those two schools would not be an embarassment to the rest of the Pac 10.

Academically, San Diego State would probably be classed in the top half of the Pac 10 and UNLV has professional schools.

Those two schools are almost no-brainers for the current Pac 10 to offer entrance to. Of course, if you are in the Northwest and fear this will dilute the Oregon/Washington infulence on the conference, you can wait a few more years and Cal and UCLA will come under pressure to add UC-Davis and UC-San Diego. Both fine academic institutions, or go pre-emptive and add the two MWC schools ASAP.



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Why would the Pac-10 want UNLV and San Diego State? Aside being nearby, which seems to hardly ever matter in conference affiliation decisions by the big 6.


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 Post subject: Disband the MWC
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:03 pm 
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If the contract is not renegotiated and those schools can get some actual TV exposuer in over a couple of thousand homes, then yeah, it may be a better deal than what ESPN was offering.


Quote:
That conference engineered the biggest steal in the nation. They get $10 million a year from CBS College Sports and associated partners. ESPN certainly didn't value them that much after their 7-year contract (probably by half at best).

If you're upset about relative conference exposure, and perhaps by the way the commissioner operates, I hear you. The money matters more, if it can be saved.

BTW- the schedule isn't waiting on the commissioner. It's waiting on TV networks to settle dates and times.


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 Post subject: Disband the MWC
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:40 pm 
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UNLV and San Diego would be excellent fits for the PAC 10.


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 Post subject: Disband the MWC
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:03 pm 
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SD St and UNLV are not in the same discussion with most Pac-10 members in academics or sports.
Not only do they not offer significant major sports programs, their olympic sports reputation is pitiful. The Pac-10 had 8 members in the top 50 in the NACDA Directors' Cup, the measuring stick for quality in all sports. The other 2 were in the top 70. Where were UNLV and SD State? 96th and 106th.
Academically, it's San Diego State and UNLV. What's more to say? Neither rank in the top 100 of colleges by reputation or popularity. Heck, San Diego State isn't even the best school in San Diego.
However attractive the San Diego and Las Vegas markets may be (SD's behind Sacramento and Denver and Las Vegas behind Salt Lake), the Pac-10 already has substantial control over those markets due to their existing reputation.


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 Post subject: Disband the MWC
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:25 am 
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Quote:
SD St and UNLV are not in the same discussion with most Pac-10 members in academics or sports.
Not only do they not offer significant major sports programs, their olympic sports reputation is pitiful. The Pac-10 had 8 members in the top 50 in the NACDA Directors' Cup, the measuring stick for quality in all sports. The other 2 were in the top 70. Where were UNLV and SD State? 96th and 106th.
Academically, it's San Diego State and UNLV. What's more to say? Neither rank in the top 100 of colleges by reputation or popularity. Heck, San Diego State isn't even the best school in San Diego.
However attractive the San Diego and Las Vegas markets may be (SD's behind Sacramento and Denver and Las Vegas behind Salt Lake), the Pac-10 already has substantial control over those markets due to their existing reputation.


What he said. Although, I would probably make comment about the director cup being that its also an indication of a WELL FUNDED athletic department. Almost all of those schools at the top of the list have put significant revenue into those sports. The others schools that are non-BCS have difficulty (in general) funding sports in general and in particular the Director Cup ones.



Last edited by panthersc97 on Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Disband the MWC
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:09 pm 
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Quote:
SD St and UNLV are not in the same discussion with most Pac-10 members in academics or sports.
Not only do they not offer significant major sports programs, their olympic sports reputation is pitiful. The Pac-10 had 8 members in the top 50 in the NACDA Directors' Cup, the measuring stick for quality in all sports. The other 2 were in the top 70. Where were UNLV and SD State? 96th and 106th.
Academically, it's San Diego State and UNLV. What's more to say? Neither rank in the top 100 of colleges by reputation or popularity. Heck, San Diego State isn't even the best school in San Diego.
However attractive the San Diego and Las Vegas markets may be (SD's behind Sacramento and Denver and Las Vegas behind Salt Lake), the Pac-10 already has substantial control over those markets due to their existing reputation.


Who are you trying to kid???

There is a reason for the common joke, UC-Seattle; UC-Pullman; UC-Eugene; UC-Corvallis; and UC-Tempe. They all have high student body counts from California kids that could not get into the California State Universities or UC system. Come to think of it, would any of those schools even have a D1 athletic program if they did not fill their teams with California kids?

As for the academic requirements and entrance status, please feel free to check any of the Pac Ten programs with San Diego State's entrance scores. I think you will find three Pac Ten schools, Cal, Stanford and UCLA as being tougher to get into. So please do not continue with any sort of heightened intellectual capacity at the Pac Ten schools. If I were to guess, the ACC is probably farther along than the Pac Ten in academic qualifying scores, and they have Miami!


Last edited by phil on Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Disband the MWC
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:11 pm 
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Quote:

Quote:
SD St and UNLV are not in the same discussion with most Pac-10 members in academics or sports.
Not only do they not offer significant major sports programs, their olympic sports reputation is pitiful. The Pac-10 had 8 members in the top 50 in the NACDA Directors' Cup, the measuring stick for quality in all sports. The other 2 were in the top 70. Where were UNLV and SD State? 96th and 106th.
Academically, it's San Diego State and UNLV. What's more to say? Neither rank in the top 100 of colleges by reputation or popularity. Heck, San Diego State isn't even the best school in San Diego.
However attractive the San Diego and Las Vegas markets may be (SD's behind Sacramento and Denver and Las Vegas behind Salt Lake), the Pac-10 already has substantial control over those markets due to their existing reputation.


What he said. Although, I would probably make comment about the director cup being that its also an indication of a WELL FUNDED athletic department. Almost all of those schools at the top of the list have put significant revenue into those sports. The others schools that are non-BCS have difficulty (in general) funding sports in general and in particular the Director Cup ones.



Yes, another good reason to shout out, "Look we have BCS money to support our programs and attempt to diminish collegiate spirit at other programs!"



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 Post subject: Disband the MWC
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:16 pm 
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NJ and Long Island kids have a significant presence at most east coast universities. Does that make Rutgers-Camden a top notch university? No.

San Diego State's requirements for California residents is roughly a 2.5 GPA and 900 SAT for a 2900 eligibility score. Arizona State requires either a 3.0 or 1040 SAT. Oregon State, the weakest school in the Pac-10, requires a 3.0 GPA.
Look at the numbers again. Of the SAT and ACT scores of middle 50% of freshmen, every Pac-10 school outranks San Diego State. This despite the overwhelming majority of their admits coming from in state. California isn't producing all their smart freshmen. Two other schools outrank San Diego State in this measurement: UC-San Diego and U of San Diego.
According to USNews, SD State and UNLV are Tier 4 schools, way behind every Pac-10 school and most UC schools. By any measurement, San Diego State is well behind the Pac-10 academically.
A good school it may be. And at the top of the Cal State system. But it's no one UCLA, Stanford, USC, Cal or even Oregon State would want to claim as a peer institution. BYU, Colorado, Colorado State and Utah are more likely to receive a bid before SD State or UNLV. And then there's always Texas, Texas A&M and Texas Tech.


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 Post subject: Disband the MWC
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:16 pm 
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Quote:
NJ and Long Island kids have a significant presence at most east coast universities. Does that make Rutgers-Camden a top notch university? No.

San Diego State's requirements for California residents is roughly a 2.5 GPA and 900 SAT for a 2900 eligibility score. Arizona State requires either a 3.0 or 1040 SAT. Oregon State, the weakest school in the Pac-10, requires a 3.0 GPA.
Look at the numbers again. Of the SAT and ACT scores of middle 50% of freshmen, every Pac-10 school outranks San Diego State. This despite the overwhelming majority of their admits coming from in state. California isn't producing all their smart freshmen. Two other schools outrank San Diego State in this measurement: UC-San Diego and U of San Diego.
According to USNews, SD State and UNLV are Tier 4 schools, way behind every Pac-10 school and most UC schools. By any measurement, San Diego State is well behind the Pac-10 academically.
A good school it may be. And at the top of the Cal State system. But it's no one UCLA, Stanford, USC, Cal or even Oregon State would want to claim as a peer institution. BYU, Colorado, Colorado State and Utah are more likely to receive a bid before SD State or UNLV. And then there's always Texas, Texas A&M and Texas Tech.


Try again.

You look at the basic requirements for admittance at the various schools, not what the actual admits were. For the Fall of 2008 San Diego State will be admitting 7,022 of their 61,492 applicants with an average high school GPA of 3.44.

http://advancement.sdsu.edu/marcomm/news/releases/fall2007/pr120707.html

Utah is a quality institution, but like their partner school BYU, the strong religious influence forbids athletic competition on Sundays, which is a deal breaker for the Pac Ten which reserves its rights to have its member institutions available to play on Sundays when the TV contracts require it. That is a clause they have built into their agreement with the MWC, that it can not require them to play on Sundays. Colorado State and Wyoming may be forced to go the WAC or Big Sky if the MWC folded up shop.


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 Post subject: Disband the MWC
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:33 pm 
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I looked at both. In your original post, you focused on the academic requirements. I was only able to find freshmen profiles for only a handful of schools. The California schools and Washington had better freshmen profiles, Oregon State and Arizona did not. I was able to track down the graduation, retention and transfer-out rates of San Diego State and most Pac-10 schools. Guess which two San Diego State doesn't lead in and the one it does? So San Diego State may have an impressive freshmen class, but either the best are transferring out or the college not challenging them.
By nearly all measures, San Diego State ranks below all Pac-10 schools, UCSD, USD and many more in academics. Check Petersons, US News, everyone. And if you had any doubt, ask a SD State applicant. Their yield - the percentage of those who were accepted enrolled - doesn't register in the top 100 yet 6 Pac-10 schools and many UC schools do.


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 Post subject: Disband the MWC
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:29 pm 
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rferry, are you sure about that?

http://advancement.sdsu.edu/marcomm/news/sdsufacts.html

Remember, your life may be hanging on research now being performed at San Diego State University, whether you respect them or not.

And, if you never travel to Las Vegas, you have never lived life to its fullest.



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 Post subject: Disband the MWC
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:50 pm 
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What about that list sounds impressive? Half the entries are about joint grad programs with UCSD and other schools. The other half are mid-tier rankings in obscure majors.
These are San Diego State's peer institutions: http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/t4natudoc_brief.php

What does the opportunities for travelers have to do with any thing? Perhaps the Pac-10 should bring in Hawaii and Savannah State. We're not talking about picking a site for a conference tournament, we're talking about adding a school that will pluck off 1/12th of the conference's revenues. Fact is the Pac-10 already controls the SD and LV markets. They aren't showing Big 12 games over the Pac-10 in San Diego or Nevada.
Conferences expand for one of 2 reasons: to make money or to stay afloat. The Pac-10 wouldn't gain anything from San Diego State or UNLV.


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