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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2002 3:11 pm 
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BCS Conferences need to take a stand...against the Big East. Yes I said it. (I'm taking a KingCal approach to style of posting)

There has been alot of crying by the members of CUSA and MWC regarding exclusion from the BCS. Behind them in line are the WAC, MAC and Sunbelt.

But there is a problem WITHIN the BCS that needs to be addresses before those conferences are even considered. The problem lies in the role of a Conference Championship game. The SEC has one and it cost them a participant in the National Championship last year. The Big 12 has it and due to what many consider an error, they got a team in. But the Big East, a conference that at many times has only 2 teams ranked (Miami and VPI) , comprised of only 8 teams, has no championship game. The big problem lies in the fact thaqt the conference has only 8 teams, and 2 of those teams rank amoungst the worst in college football. Miami gets to play a schedule each year full of soft opponents both insode and outside the conference. VPI does the same. The system is setup where both VPI and Miami have an easy chance to go undefeated...all they have to do is win the head-to-head matchup. The BCS system in recent years has made it fairly easy for the Big East. All they need to do is win out and you're in. Three seasons ago, Miami actually lost a game and still almost got a spot in the title game over 1 loss teams from the powerful SEC, and Big 12. The BCS needs to force the Big East to expand to at least 10. Do they need a conference championship game? No. The PAC10 and Big Ten don't have them. But at 10 and 11 teams, it's easiesr for people to judge talent vs only having 8 teams. I speculate that if the Big East were at 10, assuming no powerhouse #9 and #10 teams came in, that there would be a big change in the way people (the numbers geeks) view the Big East.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2002 6:07 pm 
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While I'm not opposed to BE expansion -in fact I support it - I'd take issue with the "weakness" you imply. So far Miami's and VT's toughest games this year have come from in conference teams. And, I don't think Miami's situation in the BE is any easier than FSU's in the ACC. In fact its probably tougher in that there has been several Years Miami hasn't won the BE and only once has FSU lost the ACC. As for the 12 team conferences losing teams in the playoff game, I can't feel sorry for them as their expansion to 12 was all about grabbing power any. Its just kinda backfired on them.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2002 10:11 pm 
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The perceived weakness of the Big East is only perceived.

The Big East has more than just two teams. You forget Syracuse, although not a football powerhouse, and Pittsburgh (coming out of a down cycle, are factors in Big East football. I would even venture to say that Pitt may even win the Big East this year.

The Big East wants to expand and expand ina big way. But their problem is how the conference is made up. It has a few weak schools and too amny basketball only schools. They can't add any all-sports teams because that would push the conference to over 14, which is a little ummanageable.

They did get rid of football-only Temple because Connecticut made the jump.

For the big East to get stronger they need to tell their basketball-only and their 1-AA memebership: "Either add 1-A football or move out." That applies to Notre Dame as well.

The Big East is still waiting for Notre Dame to come on board before the clean house. They shouldn't. Notre Dame won't on board any time soon. The Big East should dump all of Notre Dame's sports teams. And this is coming from an Irish fan.

They should also look at dumping their lightweight programs and start courting some of the C-USA programs.

Maybe there could be a swap worked out where the ACC and Big East take a share of the C-USA football schools and the Big East's basketball-only schools join the C-USA basketball schools.

The Big East would then be a stronger football conference and still be a basketball force.

The C-USA basketball-only schools would be happy since this would end all the talk behind Marshall's bid to joining the conference.


Last edited by tigerfan79 on Wed Nov 06, 2002 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2002 9:01 am 
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Good thread cousinmerle :)

As I mentioned on the old board, the problem that gets most people steamed is that the best of the non BCS are better than the worst of the BCS. My suggestion was that to be 1A (BCS) a school would need to average (rolling 5 yr average) at least 25% in conference and 30% overall against 1A opponents.

1B(non BCS) schools that wanted to join a BCS conference would play a home and home against each of them. Schools that they beat would be an automatic yes vote!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2002 12:11 am 
>:(

Even though I am a fan of a I-A team (Hawaii), I really think that the BCS teams are just greedy for money. It used to be that it was all about the pomp and camaraderie. Now, in order to survive, you need corporate symbols to help you. I'm thinking, WTF?

A necessary evil. But that, I guess is the nature of I-A. At least the Big 6 conferences. Maybe the midmajor I-A's are the real I-AA's, and the I-AA's are the mythological I-AAA's, anybody agree on this? :-/


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 7:17 pm 
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there is a simple solution for bcs . they need to recognize mountain west and cusa as bcs conferences. plus they need to tell notre dame join a conference or else be left out of championship. then stage would be set for bcs playoff. there would be three more bowls added to bcs. possibly cotton, citrus and holiday bowls. each conference champion would be seeded . this would be done after championship games in sec and big 12. just for discussion give i projected 8 champions for 2002. they would then be seeded by bcs ranking.
1 miami
2ohio state
3oklahoma
4georgia
5washington state
6florida state
7 colorado state
8 tcu
#1 miami vs tcu orange bowl, #2 ohio state vs colorado state sugar bowl, #3 oklahoma vs florida st cotton bowl
#4 georgia vs washinton state citrus bowl
2nd round mia./tcu winner vs geo./was.st winner fiesta
ohi.st./col.st. winner vs okl./flo.st winner holiday
championship game fiesta bowl winner vs holiday bowl winner this scenario would only take conference champions. no runnerups like last year with nebraska. the championship games in big 12 and sec would crown their particpants in the bcs. the matchu[s would try to be at a regional bowl for the higher seed in the first round. after the first round it would not always be possible


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 7:23 pm 
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A major flaw here...

What would stop say, Nebraska, from joining the Wountain West? They would be the Florida State of the MWC if they joined. The Big 12 and SEC have too many good teams.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 9:57 pm 
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You are right KingCal! :)

The SEC and Big 12 had nearly half of the top 10 and top 20 last year. While the SEC was down this year, don't count on it being down long!

I idea was to use the last 2 weeks of the season to have the different conferences play each other top to bottom. For example, the SEC might play the ACC at home, with the top SEC vs the top ACC and son on till the bottom team of each conference played. Then the next week the SEC would play the BE away while the ACC was home against the Big 10. This would make the last two weeks of the regular season into the 1st two weeks of the playoff.

Unfortunately, this would require that all the BCS conferences be the same size. I do not know how to get there. Do you ???

On that theme, I am going to start a new thread for dream conference alignments. Look for my post. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2002 9:45 am 
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Every conference has their cellar dwellars

Big East
Rutgers
Temple (soon to be UConn)

ACC
Duke
UNC (This year....others have spent time here as well)

SEC
Vandy
Miss St (This and last year...Ole Miss, South Carolina, Kentucky have been here as well)

Big 10
Indiana
Northwestern

Big XII
Baylor
Kansas

Pac 10
Stanford
Arizona (Cal has spent a lot of time here)

These schools are there for one reason or another. On this board we tend to look mainly at the football side of conferences, because in all honesty that is where any realigment would come from. It's easy for the mid-majors to point at Duke, Vandy, and Baylor and say " they are not worthy...kick them out and let us in!"...but in the big picture they do add something to the conference in regards to athletics.

Duke - basketball
Baylor - baseball
Vandy - decent basketball...and at least one SEC school has to be off probation ;D
Rutgers- well....they are in New Jersey.

The fact also remains that no matter who you kick out...our how you realign...someone has to be last in any conference you make.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2003 12:39 pm 
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catdaddy,

The cellar dwellars definitely serve a vital function. Every great teams needs a chance to pound someone and get the youngsters some playing time. Plus, you want to actually win your home game! ;)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2003 5:35 pm 
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BE teams have played in 3 of the 5 BCS championship
games. in 2002 they had 4 teams ranked in the top 25
(50% of the conf.). if CUSE comes back, then you would
have 6 of 8 very good teams. that's not too bad in my
book. i don't know if you can call MIAMI'S schedule soft
with non-conf. games away with TENN & FLA, and FSU
at home. how many other schools can say the same.
the 2003 schedule also includes these schools. IMO
MIAMI'S toughest games last season were in the BE.
i don't know if we can win all games away against
BC, PITT, & VT in 2003.

but, i agree 100% that the BE should expand first to 9
then to 12 teams. ND has probably been the BE'S
stumbling block for expansion. let's see what happens
in 2005 when ND most likely will have to join a conf.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2003 10:49 am 
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I meant to say that you want to win your homecoming game . . .

mooseheadcane,

Sounds like you guys had an excellent recruiting class. Great, just what the rest of us need... ;) Actually, it's kinda scary that UF was able to snag a couple of guys who were considering Miami, as well as a couple of major Texas recruits who Mack Brown had locked down.

I don't think anyone can knock Miami's schedule, apart from playing FAMU. I just don't buy into the need to play IAA's anymore. I realize you guys are also throwing A&M a bone though. You guys had the best out of conference schedule, at least on paper, last year. Who knew that Tennessee and Florida would be taking a nosedive? I had the Tennessee match-up penciled in as a a college football holiday at the beginning of the season . . . then the Vols actually payed some people . . . That had to be the most disappointing match-up of the year. At least Florida made you guys sweat for 3 quarters. Anyway, I can't fault the 'canes at all for their scheduling. Both FSU and Miami had softened things up for a while, but nobody can knock either school now. The ACC and the BE are WAY up, and we're both playing monster programs out of conference now. I think FSU gets the nod on out of conference scheduling next year though, since we have UF, Colorado, Notre Dame, and, ofcourse, you guys. Come to think of it, we ought to have the toughest schedule in the country, unless some of these teams implode next season.

We play UNC on the road first, which SHOULD be a gimme (no telling with our problems though). The two make or break games will be Maryland at home (second game of the season) and Miami here. If we drop the early one to Maryland, we will get POUNDED all season. If we win that one, we'll probably be on a roll (especially since we get Colorado here in the heat nad since Colorado stinks against the pass) until we play Miami. If we win that one (we should have a decent chance with Berlin, hopefully being rusty and you guys losing some major skill players, plus it being here in Tally) I think it'll galvanize the team, and we'll survive scares at UVA, ND, Clemson, and UF, as well as NC State at home, and we'll be in the BCS title game, where we'll lose to Ohio State, USC, or Oklahoma.

Likeliest Scenario:
Beat Maryland, Lose to Miami, finish 6-5.
Possible Scenarios:
Beat Maryland and Miami, go 12-0 and lose title game.
Lose to Maryland and Miami, go 4-8.

Bobby could totally redeem himself this year, or be forced to resign. It's gonna be interesting (and painful) to watch.

I think the top teams right now, on paper, are OSU, Oklahoma, LSU, and USC. Miami might be back, or they might struggle a bit. Neither would surprise me. FSU is a coin flip also, though we are much more likely to nosedive than Miami. The SEC will be brutal next year, so LSU will have hell coming out undefeated. Same goes for the ACC and BE. I think OSU will be even better next year, but either Illinois or Michigan will tarnish their record. No way they can run the table twice in-conference. If they do, just hand them the title. Oklahoma has a decent shot at going undefeated, but now they have to worry about teams like A&M and especially Ok. St. I think they'll own the conference, but someone in the Big 12 will surprise them. I just hope they don't allow Texas to back into a title game by dropping two. USC will be less talented next year but much more confident. They could run the table in their conference, but they'll lose at least one going on the road to ND and Auburn. Illinois, UVA, and Auburn are teams to really watch out for next year. They all have shots at major upsets and they'll have great records by the end of the season. Colorado could really make noise, but they have to actually beat Colorado St. and survive FSU in Tallahassee (both very possible, but Colorado hasn't been able to do anything out of conference for years).

I gotta bet on OSU and Oklahoma in the title game, but I think everyone will have at least one loss, and some great teams may have two losses, so it's anybody's guess who will luck-out in the BCS formula. Miami just needs to hang in there. Beat FSU and you can afford to drop one close game and still be in the hunt for the title. The rivalry games at the end of the season and the conference title games (especially in the SEC) will leave the door open for at least one team to sneak in.

As far as conferences go, no doubt that any move by ND could change the landscape permanently, though if the Irish move to the BE they could freeze membership at 9 indefinitely. I'd like to see a couple of non-BCS teams, Navy and Louisville, brought in also. I think Pitino is making Louisville a more desirable addition with every win this season. PSU would be the perfect capper, but if that doesn't happen, So Miss, UCF, or Marshall (I know, West Va will forbid it) would all be interesting, as would Villanova moving to IA. Actually, Army would be interesting too, since you could play that game in the early afternoon, then play the conference title game right after. The BE would dominate an entire Saturday in November every year--

At 12, Army v. Navy, and interviews with Larry Coker and Ty Willingham before the BE title game. At 5, Miami vs. ND for the BE title.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2003 11:16 am 
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ACCnole2 - ref. FAMU; we have played FAMU in the OB
every 4-5 years for decades. everyone comes to see
their band play and they pack the house. but, you're
right we'll probably have to give them up.

when the CANES and NOLES play, anything goes. the
games are so much fun. wide right, wide left who cares
winn or loose, i hope we play each other for the next
50/100 yrs.

i think you guys have to watch out for VA. in the ACC.
they have a great coach and they are the ones who
are up and coming in the conf. between MD, NCST, VA,
even WAKE and of course yourselves, your conf. is
becoming much stronger. nothing like parity.

FU had a great recruiting class this year, but you have
to be able to coach the kids. look you can book on zook
being cooked if he looses 5-6 games this year. zook
took recruits from both of us, but zook will get the hook.
all that matters is that both of us beat FU.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2003 1:51 pm 
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Quote:
I meant to say that you want to win your homecoming game . . .

mooseheadcane,

Sounds like you guys had an excellent recruiting class. Great, just what the rest of us need... ;) Actually, it's kinda scary that UF was able to snag a couple of guys who were considering Miami, as well as a couple of major Texas recruits who Mack Brown had locked down.

I don't think anyone can knock Miami's schedule, apart from playing FAMU. I just don't buy into the need to play IAA's anymore. I realize you guys are also throwing A&M a bone though. You guys had the best out of conference schedule, at least on paper, last year.

Talking about FAMU and Miami, there is a similar situation w/ Clemson and Furman. I've noticed that the I-AA team Clemson has scheduled the most times is none other than...Furman. Catdaddy, can you tell me why Clemson likes to play Furman so much???


Quote:

We play UNC on the road first, which SHOULD be a gimme (no telling with our problems though). The two make or break games will be Maryland at home (second game of the season) and Miami here. If we drop the early one to Maryland, we will get POUNDED all season. If we win that one, we'll probably be on a roll (especially since we get Colorado here in the heat nad since Colorado stinks against the pass) until we play Miami. If we win that one (we should have a decent chance with Berlin, hopefully being rusty and you guys losing some major skill players, plus it being here in Tally) I think it'll galvanize the team, and we'll survive scares at UVA, ND, Clemson, and UF, as well as NC State at home, and we'll be in the BCS title game, where we'll lose to Ohio State, USC, or Oklahoma.

UNC should be a gimme for the Noles. I had thought the Terps might be able to beat FSU the last two years, but somehow FSU still came out on top. However, this early game may change that or it may not. Definitely a must-watch, IMO.
UVa has been able to scare FSU in the past, but I'm not so sure w/ Coach Groh. I think FSU will come out alright, but I could be mistaken.
Clemson, believe it or not, should be a gimme. Bobby Bowden really prepares hard for that game and it shows.
I think an ACC team that could really scare FSU would be Georgia Tech. I know that my Dawgs poured the points on them last year, but that could be just what they needed to get out of their complacency. I look for the Jackets to surprise quite a few folks this year.
Agree that NC State should also give FSU a scare.
Anything could happen in the UF game, IMO.

Quote:

I think the top teams right now, on paper, are OSU, Oklahoma, LSU, and USC. Miami might be back, or they might struggle a bit. Neither would surprise me. FSU is a coin flip also, though we are much more likely to nosedive than Miami. The SEC will be brutal next year, so LSU will have hell coming out undefeated. Same goes for the ACC and BE. I think OSU will be even better next year, but either Illinois or Michigan will tarnish their record. No way they can run the table twice in-conference. If they do, just hand them the title. Oklahoma has a decent shot at going undefeated, but now they have to worry about teams like A&M and especially Ok. St. I think they'll own the conference, but someone in the Big 12 will surprise them. I just hope they don't allow Texas to back into a title game by dropping two. USC will be less talented next year but much more confident. They could run the table in their conference, but they'll lose at least one going on the road to ND and Auburn. Illinois, UVA, and Auburn are teams to really watch out for next year. They all have shots at major upsets and they'll have great records by the end of the season. Colorado could really make noise, but they have to actually beat Colorado St. and survive FSU in Tallahassee (both very possible, but Colorado hasn't been able to do anything out of conference for years).

UGa might be able to join that top teams' list or they might. The Dawgs will definitely struggle some next year with all of the departing seniors. However, Richt has shown the Dawgs how to win, so even if we're a little down next year, we'll be back w/ a vengeance year after next.
A team to really watch out for out of the Pac 10 is Arizona State. Although the Sun Devils have struggled a lot recently, they have shown themselves capable of prime time performances in the past. Also, the heat will be on for Belloti to produce next year. Losing to Wake is unacceptable to UO, so I expect Bellotti to be a little on the hot seat next year.

Quote:

As far as conferences go, no doubt that any move by ND could change the landscape permanently, though if the Irish move to the BE they could freeze membership at 9 indefinitely. I'd like to see a couple of non-BCS teams, Navy and Louisville, brought in also. I think Pitino is making Louisville a more desirable addition with every win this season. PSU would be the perfect capper, but if that doesn't happen, So Miss, UCF, or Marshall (I know, West Va will forbid it) would all be interesting, as would Villanova moving to IA. Actually, Army would be interesting too, since you could play that game in the early afternoon, then play the conference title game right after. The BE would dominate an entire Saturday in November every year--

If Tranghese gets his way and keeps his job for awhile, I can really see the Big East getting ND to join, and that could be the end of expansion for awhile. If Tranghese doesn't get his way, I could see him getting the hook, and seeing a new Big East commish on the scene. That new commish will give serious looks to Louisville, Cincy, UCF, and Navy.



Last edited by dawgnduckfan on Mon Feb 10, 2003 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2003 4:35 pm 
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Several factors really

1. Our former AD thought Div 1-AA games were something good.

2. Furman is one of the elite teams in without a doubt toughest Div 1-AA conference, the Southern Conference. Honestly, I feel that Furman, Ga Southern, Appalachian St and Wofford would give most of the MAC and Sun Belt Conferences a solid whipping.

3. They are located in Greenville....so it's a short trip for them and they pack the stands...meaning more money for both schools. The fans in the seats is big considering we can't get fans from most of the other ACC schools to travel.

If memory serves...this is the first of two with them....the second is later on this decade. After that there are no other games lined up at this time.


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