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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:12 am 
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These things work in different ways, depending on the situation. Virginia Tech went to the ACC with a quirk of fate, or a quirk of state politics. The same could happen, given certain conditions, in a hypothetical situation for Iowa State and Colorado State, if other choices were exhausted.

I don't think its likely that Iowa State would be given a Big 10 invite. But I do believe they are a better candidate for the Big 10 than other neighboring schools to the Big 10 region.

Colorado State on the other hand may be a more likely pick for the Big 12 if Missouri was lost to the Big 10 and Utah and BYU ended up in the Pac 10 and Arkansas stayed in the SEC. That would leave a need for a neighboring school that would align well with the Big 12 North. TCU, UNM, Houston, would also be candidates, but those schools are aligned better with the South Division. Colorado State, though the same state as CU, would be reinforcement for the State of Colorado, which is three times the size of New Mexico (and better buying power per capita), nearly ten times the size of Wyoming, and double the size of Utah. Virginia Tech wasn't the only example of "same market as a current member situation." Oklahoma State to the Big 7, Michigan State to the Big 9, Idaho to the WAC, are also examples.

Iowa State is more like a Purdue than an Auburn, academically. Iowa State is a member of the AAU as is Purdue and Auburn is not. Like Purdue, ISU is also a member of the Universities Research Association and Auburn is not.


Last edited by metropolitan on Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:47 am 
The "logical changes" for the Mid-Con is to add the Dakota schools instead of the darn(aren't they extinct anyway?) Mastodons or anyone else.

Two of today's newspaper articles discussing the Dakota schools for possible Mid-Con spots at http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/journalgazette/sports/14395990.htm

at http://nwitness.com/articles/2006/04/21/sports/college_sports/b046741ecfbfb16286257157000d55ad.txt


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:51 am 
Let's do link to NWI times again at http://nwitimes.com/articles/2006/04/21/sports/college_sports/b046741ecfbfb16286257157000d55ad.txt


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:21 am 
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Depends on what you define as "logical" and what the conference needs are at this time. It could be possible that they add NDSU, SDSU and IPFW, and another, or just two or just one. Nothing is clear at this point on what they are looking for and how many.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:21 pm 

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These things work in different ways, depending on the situation. Virginia Tech went to the ACC with a quirk of fate, or a quirk of state politics. The same could happen, given certain conditions, in a hypothetical situation for Iowa State and Colorado State, if other choices were exhausted.

I don't think its likely that Iowa State would be given a Big 10 invite. But I do believe they are a better candidate for the Big 10 than other neighboring schools to the Big 10 region.

Colorado State on the other hand may be a more likely pick for the Big 12 if Missouri was lost to the Big 10 and Utah and BYU ended up in the Pac 10 and Arkansas stayed in the SEC. That would leave a need for a neighboring school that would align well with the Big 12 North. TCU, UNM, Houston, would also be candidates, but those schools are aligned better with the South Division. Colorado State, though the same state as CU, would be reinforcement for the State of Colorado, which is three times the size of New Mexico (and better buying power per capita), nearly ten times the size of Wyoming, and double the size of Utah. Virginia Tech wasn't the only example of "same market as a current member situation." Oklahoma State to the Big 7, Michigan State to the Big 9, Idaho to the WAC, are also examples.

Iowa State is more like a Purdue than an Auburn, academically. Iowa State is a member of the AAU as is Purdue and Auburn is not. Like Purdue, ISU is also a member of the Universities Research Association and Auburn is not.

Interesting link, although I still insist ISU is more like Auburn than it is like Purdue (Purdue focusing more academics/liberal arts while Auburn and ISU tend to focus on the original land grant college's purpose.). I'm surprised Auburn never looked into joining the Universities Research Association, considering Alabama is already in.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 4:12 pm 
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They would probably be blocked by Alabama.


ISU, Purdue, and Auburn all focus on bio science and engineering, just like all the land grants do.


The reason I was thinking ISU over Missouri is that ISU is in the AAU and Missouri is not.

Every other member of the Big Ten is in the AAU.


Last edited by tman080808 on Sat Apr 22, 2006 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 4:44 pm 
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[quote author=metropolitan board=general thread=1130165096 post=1145635923]


Interesting link, although I still insist ISU is more like Auburn than it is like Purdue (Purdue focusing more academics/liberal arts while Auburn and ISU tend to focus on the original land grant college's purpose.).


Where is your reference to such a conclusion?

All three are still focused on the land grant mission of their respective states. All three schools have a great reputation for their respective ag schools. Purdue has the most high tech reputation. However, Iowa State also has a significant reputation in computer science, as it was the home of the world's first digital computing device. Purdue, along with Indiana U, had a another similar importance in the history of Computer Science. Auburn, though a fine land grant, doesn't have anything like that for the early years of computer science history.

Iowa State is also very similar to Michigan State University. Iowa State is much more like a Big 10 institution when compared to the University of Kentucky, West Virginia University, the University of Nebraska-Lincoln, the University of Delaware, SUNY-Buffalo, SUNY Albany, SUNY Stony Brook, SUNY Binghampton, and all MAC and Missouri Valley schools, and its academics is about comparable to the University of Missouri. The Big 10 has 7 land grants, and the two that are not consolidated land grants/liberal arts comprehensives, Iowa State is comparable to those two schools (MSU and Purdue) with slightly less rep than Purdue and about even with MSU. Iowa having only 3 state universities does have a national reputation for having all three institutions with great academic reputations and how that improves the quality of education and research when compared to most states, especially with those states that are slightly bigger or same size or smaller, but yet have many more state universities and colleges. The State of Iowa has mastered quality in its public institutions for the size of state it is. This was quoted in a speech by a former Chancelor of the University of California, Berkeley to a speech to Texas A & M University on flagship universities.

And as far as liberal arts at Iowa State, Iowa State University and the University of Nebraska-Lincoln both share Ted Kooser among their respective alumni. He is the current (and two-time) US Poet Laureate and that places him in the same ranks as Robert Frost. You can't get more accomplished Liberal Arts than that. He also recently recieved a Pulitzer Price for his poetry.

Actually, Tman, both the University of Missouri and Iowa State University are members of the AAU, as are all the 11 members of the Big 10:

http://www.aau.edu/aau/members.html


Last edited by metropolitan on Sat Apr 22, 2006 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:52 pm 
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I'd still say Mizzou gets in simply because it gives the Big Ten more access to the Saint Louis and Kansas City markets, as well as even opening up access to neighboring states where Missouri would have a significant alumni base, such as Kansas, Oklahoma, and Arkansas (much in the way that Arkansas brings in markets in Oklahoma, Missouri, and Kansas for its TV deal with the outfit formerly known as JPTV).

Keep in mind that Nebraska is also a member of the AAU.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:58 pm 
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As are all the Big 12 North members except for Kansas State.

However, Kansas State, along with Nebraska, Iowa State and Colorado are also members of the University Reseach Association, as are all 11 members of the Big 10.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:41 am 
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I'd still say Mizzou gets in simply because... as well as even opening up access to neighboring states where Missouri would have a significant alumni base, such as Kansas, Oklahoma, and Arkansas (much in the way that Arkansas brings in markets in Oklahoma, Missouri, and Kansas for its TV deal with the outfit formerly known as JPTV).


If you're talking Mizzou Alumni numbers, Kansas, California, Illinois, and Texas are significant, but Oklahoma and Arkansas are not, as seen on this Mizzou Alumni households by state map:

http://www.mizzou.com/pdf/MZmapUS.pdf

There are also no Mizzou Tiger Sports Radio network affiliates outside of the state of Missouri:

http://www.learfield.com/gestalt/go.cfm?objectid=A91C6175-F660-48AB-9035E30EE5556BDC

University of Missouri would be a significant addition as far as market because it brings the state of Missouri and the St. Louis market and a strong share of the Kansas City market which are both part of a statewide Missouri Market approaching 6 million people. Arkansas is an SEC market and Oklahoma is a Big 12 market. Some overlap into Kansas may exists because of the Kansas City, Joplin (extremely small portion of NE Oklahoma) and St. Joseph media markets. Kansas City has the biggest impact on Kansas, while St. Joseph and Joplin are really small in their territory and population that is located in Kansas and the small NE county of Oklahoma.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:19 am 
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Missouri would be good for the Big10. IF RU ever gets serious about FB and BB they might be too. That would probably take too long though. Although, if they have a 'meteoric' rise like VT has in the past 15-20 years and if the Big10 continues to wait . :P

**********************************

The most 'logical' thing to do would be to have conferences be 9 or 10 teams maximum and get rid of the championship game. Also would be to organize conferences based on 'regions'.

Of course none of this will happen because of TV $$ but its just a thought.... ;D

*********************************

'In Theory' the following 'could' have happened in 2003 before BC headed to the ACC

ACC takes Vandy for #12 to be more regionalized
SEC takes Missouri
Big12 takes Utah
BE splits and takes ND, Northwestern, UC

BIG HOLES in the scenerio? Well, Northwestern leaving the Big10 to goto a lesser academic conference for less pay. NW would be going to a conference with 3 other privates in BC, SU, and ND. IF only VU or GT were 1A FB also.

I just can't see two other teams in the 'NE' footprint that would be logical to leave their conference that would be a good fit that play 1A FB. The only two would be Maryland and PSU. However, they are good fits in the ACC and Big10, respectively.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:28 am 
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I could see Florida State or West Virginia going to the SEC before Missouri.

If Vandy was taken into the ACC instead of BC, then I could see West Virginia into the SEC as their replacement, and BC would be still be in the Big East.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:09 pm 
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I could see Florida State or West Virginia going to the SEC before Missouri.

If Vandy was taken into the ACC instead of BC, then I could see West Virginia into the SEC as their replacement, and BC would be still be in the Big East.


If you think long term BC in the ACC may be a good choice. I have read on this board and on other boards of the SEC possibly going to a 14 team super conference. The ACC is rumored to be toying with that idea too. Now none of this if factual at this time however 10 years down the road this infatuation could become a reality. In which case a logical move for the ACC would be a pincer move to claim the whole Atlantic Coast with the addition of Rutgers and Conn.

In this scenario W.V. and L'Ville may have a SEC shot with ND, Pitt, and Cuse going to the B-10/11. Transman saves his weakened BE BB conference which at this point becomes second rate. Cinn and USF return have to a 14 member Cusa conference.
Now there are two more at large BCS bids and no BE football because the FB teams didn't have the guts to split and expand.
At his point it really doesn't matter because the FB schools are in better overall conferences and they finally have their independence from the BB schools who ruined their conference by not letting the FB schools expand previous to the ACC raid or after that raid.

The B-12 will have to keep up by taking a couple MWC schools and the Pac 10 will have to take some MWC and WAC teams to follow the new super conference theory. The B-12 grabs TCU and CSU; the P-10 takes Utah, BYU, Fresno St., and Boise St.; and the remaining MWC and WAC will have to combine.

This all plays out profitably for the remaining 5 super conferences because 2 auto bids are removed in the process and the remaining mid major conferences will never place any team in the top 14. So all the BCS bids go to the ANCHOR 5 and they also clean up with all of the higher end bowls in the bowl system. The Anchor Five will also clean up in BB with the greater number of superior BB teams taking home a majority of the bids and tournament credits.

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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 10:48 am 
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The only reason I can see anyone going to 14 is a conference with 12 having a shot at Notre Dame... or Texas. In short, only a major coup prompts going to 14. I can't possibly see the numbers working otherwise, certainly not for any example of other conferences going to 14 just because one conference does it.


Last edited by pounder on Mon May 01, 2006 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 2:09 pm 
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I could see Florida State or West Virginia going to the SEC before Missouri.

If Vandy was taken into the ACC instead of BC, then I could see West Virginia into the SEC as their replacement, and BC would be still be in the Big East.


I didn't think FSU because the ACC expanded to 12 and FSU got their wish.

I could see WVu - that is a good point - they were almost #12 over S. Carolina I belive.

I was 'trying' to preserve the NE 'core' of the BE as much as possible in the 'logical' scenerio.


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