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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2003 8:47 pm 
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Junior
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" target="_blank">http://www.news-record.com/sports/acc/ac.....[/quote]

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 7:53 am 
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Junior
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I have thought for a long time the big east is more likely to expand. If the acc does expand it would be taking on a couple more major football schools... prob from the big east.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:53 am 
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catdaddy, does the funding listed above include football? When football has reached the same level in playoff as basketball, the ACC will fall behind the other 5 BCS conferences.

knightgood, please can we stop we the ACC cherry pickling the Big East. The Big East is clearly in control of football and will expand before the ACC. It is more likly that the BE will cherry pick the ACC first. Please look at the facts and not follow the common tired assumption. The ACC has a lot of polictial problems that will hurt football expansion. It just a matter of time before the Big East gets to 12. Miami is very happy in control of its own destiny and does not have to get permission from the 4 North Carolina schools.



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 1:28 pm 
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Junior
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The above figures include football.

As for the hypothetical falling off if a football playoff increases funding...I kind of doubt it, simply because the ACC Administration's policy is to send as much money back to the schools as possible, whereas conferences like the Big 10 and SEC have bloated Administrative budgets.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 1:51 pm 
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Football and basketball were close to making the same amount last year, so football doesn't really have any problems in the ACC. Playoffs may never happen, so i wouldn't count playoffs and playoff money in any agruement. The BCS worked this year placing the two best teams in the country against each other, you can't argue that.
Lash, you are right, the ACC might not be able to cherry pick the Big East. But if they were invited, you have to say that it would be extremely hard for a Miami, Syracuse or WVU/VT not to jump the BE ship. All of the schools listed would make more money in the ACC. It's no a mystery that VT has always wanted to be in the ACC and I'm sure Miami wouldn't see the ACC as being a harder trip to the Title game than the BE.

As for the BE taking ACC teams, I don't see that happening anytime soon. Clemson and GT are southern schools. There is no way the old alums for either school would leave a conference inwhich they play close and like-minded schools to travel to Rutgers, Uconn, or Boston College. They would possibly jump to the SEC, and I honestly don't think that would happen. Maryland is ACC country, always has been and always will be. They hate the Carolina Mafia as much as we do, but they wouldn't go anywhere. FSU would mostlikely be the only school to bolt. But, when it comes to dollars signs, it just doesn't add up.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 2:47 pm 
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augutajacket, lets start with facts and not common assumptions.

Vt always wanted in the ACC prior to the BE. This is not the case today, VT fans actually prefer the SEC over the ACC. All the years of neglect, would keep VT from ever joining the ACC unless there was no BCS bid provided in the current confernce Since the BE is a BCS conference, that is not an issue. VT would have to pay (think its 5 million exit fees and probably the same in entry fees to another conference. With all the budgets issues into todays college finance, 10 million could be used for much needed other athletic funds (i.e. increase coach salaries, just to mention a few).

Miami is undisputed king of Big East football. When you own a conference, no need to look anywhere. Maybe I have added to the schools inflated image, however, realistic, they would have the same cost as VT to exit. Is there a benefit. no!

Same holds true for ACC members. Really don't buy the argument that ACC schools only want to play southern schools? I can understand wanting to continue play traditional rivals and travel cost.

Lastling in this debate, up to now, the Big East has never had any schools to defect to another conference.

Maybe we should get South Carolina's take on the ACC? Just stirring things up.

Have a major disagreement with football playoff and revenue. Football is barly tapped for money. It may take time to get to a full blown 16 team playoff, however, it would double the current revenue and this is a conservative estimate. It only a matter of time. Maybe today or maybe 10 years it will happen because money drives BCS conferences.

The next arugment is which conference will be postioned to take advantage of future football revenue. The SEC and Big 12 are already there.

The ACC may make more money per school at the present, however, look how far the SEC has come since exspanding to 12 in the 90s. They used to make the least and now make much more money than the ACC over all( something like 90 million to 70 million). They do have 12 members, however, these same 12 members are poised to make big money on football.

I do agree that the current ACC revenue stream is tapped out. How do you grow you revenue will be the next question. Can you grow any more revenue from basketball than you already produce? not sure!

Hopefully the BE is putting its future revenue bet on football.



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 4:18 pm 
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We will increase our football revenue the same way we increased our basketball revenue...by being aggresive in our future TV contract negotiations, and with the upgrade of mostof the football programs in the ACC..additional bowl slots.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 5:40 pm 
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catdaddy, interesting on future football revenue. I agree with you on improving football programs in the ACC. Both the ACC and BE are underrated in football.

If and only if the BE expanded to 12 members, really think the BE will grow football revenue at a much greater rate than the ACC having only 9 members.

Juding from the SEC football championship, every team receives over 1 million and don't have to make the championship game. Not bad pocket change.

If the BE expands to 12 along with the SEC, Big 12, and Big 10 and the revenue for football sky rockets, just cant see the ACC not dropping standards and accepting some deep south mid major teams.

South Fla, Southern Miss, Tulane, Memphis, TCU, SMU all come to mind and they all are located in the south or south west.

I just can't see the ACC as the only BCS confernces with less than 12 teams if the others reach 12? It will be very interesting to see how the NC 4 will deal with this future issue. Money talks.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 11:02 pm 
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The Pac 10 also will not expand, i'm sure they will go after the ACC will, if that ever happens. The article where the info came from says that the ACC package has double the last decade, i don't see how it won't keep going up with the football teams getting better. Even if ACC basketball might not be the same juggernaut it once was, it still get the best ratings. It's the only conference on espn on wed with the nba, that's got to show you the pulling power of the ACC when it comes to basketball.
When it comes to making money, the ACC isn't interested in the most money made. They are all for giving the schools back the most money. That is exactly what they do with a very high margin over the fellow BIG 6.
If the ACC does go to 12, it won't take most of the teams you mentioned. They do not add up academically to be in the ACC.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 12:18 pm 
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Then I guess its Harvard, Yale, and Princeton to the ACC for 12.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 12:37 pm 
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Lash,
Don't forget Vandy! ;) You are taking Southern Ivy to new lows! ;) ;D

I plan on replying to you on the "What do the mid-major offer" thread if I can. (I feel like a coach down by 3 with the regular and shot clock both running down.)

FBfan


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 6:50 pm 
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All-Conference
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Location: Dothan, AL for the time being.

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We will increase our football revenue the same way we increased our basketball revenue...by being aggresive in our future TV contract negotiations, and with the upgrade of mostof the football programs in the ACC..additional bowl slots.

How are you going to do that?? You do know that the SEC and ACC are conference "rivals." If the SEC sees something that would allow the ACC to do well, the SEC would block it simply because it hates the ACC. Allow me to explain: if the ACC tried to get on CBS, (ala the SEC), I have no doubt that the SEC would be meeting w/ CBS executives behind closed doors to block this from happening. Case in point: back in '96 or so, I used to be able to get some ACC games on the local Fox station here in Dothan, Al. Alabama is definitely SEC country, so it was surprising that the ACC manage to get a toehold down here. The ACC had this coverage, plus the coverage they already got with ABC. However, the local Fox affiliate dropped the ACC games one year after they tried them. Does it sound like there might be a conspiracy going here? As for additional bowl slots, where are you going to get them? The ACC has to keep two things in mind:
1. any ACC bowls need to be in an area that's not too far away from ACC territory. Fans need to be able to travel to these bowls well. Some west coast bowls might be ok, especially for schools that have alumni out on the west coast, but that's the exception, not the rule. The Continental Tire Bowl and the Toyota Gator Bowl are good examples of good drawing ACC bowls. Look at where the SEC plays the majority of its bowl games. Only one bowl game is played outside SEC territory: the Cotton Bowl, which is in Texas.
2. Any ACC bowls need to be paired up with another conference tie-in that would be a good regional draw.
A good example of this is the Chick-Fil-A Peach Bowl in Atlanta. The SEC and ACC don't really care for each other all that much, and I'm sure ACC football fans know of at least one or two SEC fans where they live. However, look what happened with the Tangerine Bowl. Your team vs Texas Tech. ACC alums aren't too familiar with Big 12 fans, so the bowl did not draw as well as an SEC or a Big East team would have. The way the SEC sets up its bowls is the bowl must be close to where the SEC plays (notice how the SEC did not bother to pursue the Seattle Bowl) and has a conference tie-in that SEC fans are familiar with. The SEC has rivalries w/ the ACC, the Big 10, and the Big 12, so it stands to reason that the SEC would have tie-ins with those conferences.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:05 pm 
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The Pac 10 also will not expand, i'm sure they will go after the ACC will, if that ever happens.

Very interesting you would make that point, Augusta Jacket (BTW, did you see the score of last years game of UGa and Tech? ;D ) I happened to make the point that the ACC and the Pac 10 are very similar conferences to a group of Pac 10 fans on a MLB board of all places. They refused to believe it, but deep down, I knew that they knew I was right. Look at Washington State and Wake Forest. Although WSU is a state school and not a private school, it has approximately the same size stadium and the same size fanbase as Wake Forest does!! :o One could make the point that UCLA is very similar to Maryland or that Duke is very similar to Stanford. Another surprising similarity between the ACC and the Pac 10: both stress academics over athletics. If you examined the standards for Pac 10 and ACC schools, I'd bet you $10 that you would find many more similarities than differences. Now I don't know this for certain, but is the ACC really big on research institutions? I know for a fact that the Pac 10 likes for each member to have a research institution.
Look at the schools the Pac 10 considered going after: Texas and Colorado. Both fit the Pac 10 mold and both would give the Pac 10 additional new markets. Maybe that's why the ACC taking their time on this: they're looking for teams that fit the mold and give them new markets to expand to.



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:49 pm 
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Junior
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The SEC may well try to block the ACC...but as soon as they sign up with one network, the ACC will go to another. No network is going to sign an agreement with the SEC or any other conference after they have already signed one with another.
Besides, the way the SEC is going they will not be able to negotiate any TV deal bevcause Vandy will be the only SEC school not on probation and eligible for TV. :D

As for the tangerine Bowl, it was not the matchup that caused the lack of attendence, it was the date. An evening game the day before Christmas Eve isn't going to draw fans no matter what the matchup. If the Tangerine Bowl were played even the day before the fans would have made the trip, especially for the Big XII folks. The date and time of the game meant that any TT fans at the game were travelling the majority of Christmas Eve if they wanted to spend Christmas at home. If the game were played the Sunday before, on the 22nd, there would have been a lot more fans of both schools present. Pardon us Clemson fans if we happen to put family before football on a Holy Day.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 12:35 pm 
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Freshman
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Dawg, I'm afraid i was there sitting through the whole thing :'(. But, things are looking up with your current bball situation ;).
The ACC is very happy with thier tv deals right now. Honestly, i don't see how they could be more happier. The GT-Maryland game is always on a thursday night, which is very good for the conference. Also, ESPN usually gives us two games football games on the weekends, though sometimes it is one. We always have our regional game on ABC, which usually goes deep into SEC country (tenn, bama, kentucky). Also the Jefferson-Pilot game goes regional, too. So in some way shape or form every acc football gets on tv. Yes, even that wake-duke game somehow finds a way. Basketball wise it's the same way. Even CBS plays some acc basketball games (which is very suprising).
If you want to talk bowl games, the ACC is set up very well. The Peach, Gator, and Tire are great bowl for ACC fans. The Seattle bowl isn't actually too bad. When you look at where ACC alums live (especially wake, gt, unc and uva) there are alot of fans in the pac. northwest. The Tangerine isn't all that bad. The only problem is the date. No one is going to want to go down there 2 days before Christmas.


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