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 Post subject: Summit League Expansion
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 8:03 am 
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Being an North Dakota State alumnist, it was hoped by me and many other alums that NDSU get into the Big Sky conference. However, with the Big Sky saying no, I wonder if the Mid-Continent might be a better choice anyway for all sports except football. South Dakota State and N. Colorado could also be joined to bring the conference to 12 schools and divide it to East and West Divisions. Here could be the conference affliation:
East
Chicago State
Centenary (LA)
IUPUI
Oakland (MI)
Valpariso (IN)
Western Illinios

West
Missouri-Kansas City
Oral Roberts
Southern Utah
Northern Colorado
South Dakota State
North Dakota State


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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 8:15 am 
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As someone who goes to OaklandU (MI) games on occasion, I think it would only help OaklandU and the Mid-Cont to have two, more regional divisions - rather than the one 9-team schedule they look to have with Centenary on board.

Regional Rivalry: Seeing ChicagoState, IUPUI, Wesern Illinois and Valpo on the schedule more often than SoUtah, OralRoberts and UMKC can't hurt. The costs of competing in this conference would be curtailed a bit too.

Image: It also looks more impressive to casual fans(whether it is in this case or not) to have state name universities in the mix (one's that carry their state's name), like NoCol, SDSU and NDSU. [OaklandU is a state university, but doesn't have that recognition out of the state]. In this state, to play a school with "Michigan" somewhere in their name is to play a bigger conference team. For fans here (even if they are not very good), playing SouthDakotaSt and NorthDakotaSt looks good on the schedule.

There is discussion of the NDSU, SDSU and NoCol issue on another thread concerning their I-AA FB prospects. In case you may be interested. I believe it is "New western I-AA FB conference" - or something like that.


Last edited by nert on Sun May 18, 2003 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 7:45 pm 
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Nert,

I agree with the regional rivarly. The East could play the West just once per year and change the home site every year of these match-ups. I would say keep the basketball championships in Kansas City or St. Louis to keep it somewhat centralized between the schools.


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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 11:44 am 
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I wonder if the Mid-Continent might be a better choice anyway for all sports except football.


If members of this conference play hockey, you could consider The University of Denver. Their fans don't appear to have much interest in the Sun Belt.


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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 1:36 pm 
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Quote:


If members of this conference play hockey, you could consider The University of Denver. Their fans don't appear to have much interest in the Sun Belt.


i don't know about the other mid-cont schools, but oakland does not field a hockey team - though wayne state in detroit has a div I hockey program and is considering moving to div I soon for all sports. i think the mid-cont would be wise to add them (35,000 students), the question is if they continue to play football or not at wayne state. the hold up is the size of the football stadium - which is too small for even div I-aa.

i'm not sure if oakland wants a close mid-cont rival - but maybe that would help build a following for both programs. for those who don't know, oakland is in rochester, michigan - about 3 miles from the palace of aubun hills where the detroit pistons play, so it is the detroit market. wayne state is in the middle of downtown detroit. this would be a classic urban vs suburban rivalry. while they share the detroit-area college market (with detroit-mercy - a jesuit college), it's a BIG market of about 3.5 million people.


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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 3:49 pm 
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Quote:


If members of this conference play hockey, you could consider The University of Denver. Their fans don't appear to have much interest in the Sun Belt.


Hockey has its own conferences and is not a part of any realignment discussions.

Denver hockey has a nice rivalry going with Colorado College and likes being connected to the WCHA elites of North Dakota, Minnesota and Wisconsin.


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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 12:56 am 
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Quote:
Hockey has its own conferences and is not a part of any realignment discussions.


True, the aforementioned WayneState program plays in the CHA - which is the newest Div I Hockey conference - with the likes of AirForce, Huntsville-Alabama, etc. If they had to do that travelling for all sports, the Warriors would be bankrupt.

I also don't think Oakland would want to see WayneState in the Mid-Cont --- or moving up to I-A for that matter. Oakland is still trying to catch UDetroit-Mercy (as well as MichSt, UMich, CentMich, WestMich, and EastMich) and another Div I program in the Detroit metro area would just slow that advance down.

Unfortunately for Oakland, if WayneState does make the jump to I-A (without football or with football to I-AA independent or Pioneer), they would make a perfect 14th MAC school for all non-FB sports (to partner with UCF football). As a state school of that size, they would be an attractive addition to the MAC - and that would leave Oakland well behind them in local sports coverage.


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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 6:34 pm 
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Quote:
As someone who goes to OaklandU (MI) games on occasion, I think it would only help OaklandU and the Mid-Cont to have two, more regional divisions - rather than the one 9-team schedule they look to have with Centenary on board.

Regional Rivalry: Seeing ChicagoState, IUPUI, Wesern Illinois and Valpo on the schedule more often than SoUtah, OralRoberts and UMKC can't hurt. The costs of competing in this conference would be curtailed a bit too.

Image: It also looks more impressive to casual fans(whether it is in this case or not) to have state name universities in the mix (one's that carry their state's name), like NoCol, SDSU and NDSU. [OaklandU is a state university, but doesn't have that recognition out of the state]. In this state, to play a school with "Michigan" somewhere in their name is to play a bigger conference team. For fans here (even if they are not very good), playing SouthDakotaSt and NorthDakotaSt looks good on the schedule.

There is discussion of the NDSU, SDSU and NoCol issue on another thread concerning their I-AA FB prospects. In case you may be interested. I believe it is "New western I-AA FB conference" - or something like that.


I know this is an old post, but I just found the board and things seem to be heating up. I agree that having the State (South Dakota, Colorado, etc.) in the name can be a big factor for the casual fan. I think all three former NCC schools would be a good fit for the Mid-Con. It only makes sense (from a cost stand point) for the Conf. to go with 12 teams in 2 Div. Has anyone heard anything about what the Mid-Con is thinking?

Go South Dakota State!



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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:29 pm 
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What is the thinking with ND, SD, Minnesota St. and St. Cloud St.? I thought it likely that all the state schools in the NCC would at some point move up together as they are very successful and among the largest schools in Div. II. I also think they are the only states other than Alaska where the flagship schools (U of... and State U)are not in Div. I. Is the 8 year in Div I requirement for members to qualify a conference just too burdensome? Its surprising to me that one of the schools in the state would move w/o the other.


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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 1:19 pm 
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SDSU worked very hard to convince the rest of the NCC to move up with us. If we had gotten 6 member schools to come along, we could have moved up as a conf.

Last year the NCC consisted of these schools

South Dakota State
North Dakota State
Northern Colorado

North Dakota
Nebraska-Omaha
Minnesota State-Mankato
St. Cloud State
South Dakota
Augustana College

The first three are commited to D-I. The next four have D-I Hockey and are D-II in all other sports. These four feel that this already makes them a "D-I School" so why have the added expense of moving all the programs up. The last two have finacial issues that would make the jump tough.

The two Minnesota schools and UNO also have state issues to overcome. In both states there are forces that look to protect the Gophers and Huskers from having to compete for resources, media attention, and fan support.

I do think that some of the schools were fearful that they would not be able to compete at a higher level. These fears may not be unfounded. The best schools in the NCC are the ones moving up. With the Big 3 the NCC has won 43 NCAA D-II Championships. Take the Big 3 out of the NCC and they have only won 10 NCAA D-II Championships.

Lastly I do think that not being eligible for NCAA playoff did scare some of the schools. I think this is what you are talking about when you mentioned 8 year. We are able to join a conference today if we get an invitation. UC-Davis (another D-II power that is making the move up) is joining the Big West. SDSU and NDSU will be playoff eligible in all sport except basketball by 2009 (basketball has a longer waiting period, however there is legislation before the NCAA that would change this waiting period. If passed we would be eligible for all sports in 2009). I believe that some of the schools felt that their programs would lose their support during this 5 year wait. Hope that helps.

Go South Dakota State Univeristy!


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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 1:26 pm 
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Quote:
What is the thinking with ND, SD, Minnesota St. and St. Cloud St.? I thought it likely that all the state schools in the NCC would at some point move up together as they are very successful and among the largest schools in Div. II. I also think they are the only states other than Alaska where the flagship schools (U of... and State U)are not in Div. I. Is the 8 year in Div I requirement for members to qualify a conference just too burdensome? Its surprising to me that one of the schools in the state would move w/o the other.


Here is an older story that speaks to part of you question.

http://espn.go.com/ncaa/news/2003/0815/1596655.html

South Dakota was only state without a D-I program

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Associated Press


BROOKINGS, S.D. -- South Dakota State University will move up to NCAA Division I athletics but still seeks conference affiliations, Fred Oien, the school's athletic director, said Friday.


"As of yesterday, South Dakota was the only state in the union that did not have Division I athletics. We're glad that is over," Oien told reporters.


Oien said the school's current Division II home, the North Central Conference, has been told of SDSU's intent to withdraw as of next July 1.


"In addition, the university has filed a petition for division change with the NCAA," he said.


The matter has been studied for four years by the school, students, athletes, faculty, boosters and others, Oien said. The Board of Regents approved the move in December.


SDSU does not have any Division I conference affiliations yet. But Oien said it should be easier now that the school has announced its official intention.


He said SDSU should be able to keep all 20 of its sports.


SDSU will remain in Division II in the upcoming season, but starting in 2004-2005, the Jackrabbits will compete in Division 1-AA in football and Division 1 in all other sports.


Oien said it's critical that fellow land-grant school North Dakota State, which already has gone Division I, and SDSU proceed together. Both schools are "like-minded" and have the same agenda in athletics, he said.


Oien said the process has been difficult but fun. He said people at SDSU are committed "to do the right thing."


"I'm not smart enough to make decisions on my own," Oien said, adding that he depended on the counsel of others.





Last edited by 89rabbit on Sat Nov 15, 2003 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 6:40 pm 

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What is the thinking with ND, SD, Minnesota St. and St. Cloud St.? I thought it likely that all the state schools in the NCC would at some point move up together as they are very successful and among the largest schools in Div. II. I also think they are the only states other than Alaska where the flagship schools (U of... and State U)are not in Div. I. Is the 8 year in Div I requirement for members to qualify a conference just too burdensome? Its surprising to me that one of the schools in the state would move w/o the other.



The Div I requirement to qualify as a conference and receive an automatic men's BB berth is actually 13 years. An individual schools can qualify in 5 years for NCAA postseason, except for basketball which is also 13 yers. With these requirements, schools moving up need to have either serious financial commitments upfront or have ego-driven leadership. Without a conference commitment upfront, the 13-year probation period has the potential to mortally wound athletic departments that are going Div I as independents.

There is a drive lead by the Big West Conference (which has accepted UC-Davis) to modify the 13 year requirement down to five.


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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 9:41 pm 
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Here is a recent story:

College basketball: Tournament eligibility is good news for Bison and Jacks

By Jeff Kolpack
The Forum - 10/29/2003

North Dakota State will apparently get its NCAA legislative wish. A

13-year postseason ban for men’s basketball is on its way out.

The NCAA Division I Management Council forwarded a proposal that would eliminate an additional eight-year ban of making the NCAA Division I men’s basketball tournament.

By forwarding it, the Management Council in effect had no problem with the proposal. It will be on the Council’s agenda at its January meeting.

“That’s a positive sign,” said NDSU athletic director Gene Taylor.

It’s good news to the NDSU men’s and women’s basketball teams. The legislation would eliminate an additional two-year ban for women’s programs.

The Bison are hoping to be NCAA tournament eligible in all sports by 2008-09.

“I think it’s critical,” said NDSU coach Tim Miles.

It’s critical for recruiting. By being eligible in 08-09, an incoming freshman next season can redshirt, and then be theoretically on a tournament team by their senior year.

“It’s significant to us,” said women’s athletic director Lynn Dorn.

“It affords us the opportunity to recruit student-athletes with the hopes of having them make an immediate impact.”

There are still a few legislative hoops to go through, however. The NCAA membership will have 60 days after the January meeting to study the proposal. Feedback will be received at the April Division I Management Council meeting.

At that point, the Management Council can either make an amendment to the proposal or forward it to the NCAA Board of Directors for final approval.

The impetus for change, Taylor said, is coming from the Big West Conference. The league is poised to add California Davis, but not at the expense of a 13-year postseason men‘s basketball probation.

“The Big West said this is unfair, this is restrictive,” Taylor said.

It’s already been a lengthy fight for NDSU, which has been working on the issue for more than a year. Taylor said the fact the five-year transition period is new -- it began last year -- is a major reason for the delay.

Schools formerly had to go through a two-year wait. A Division I moratorium on expansion went into effect in 2000 and was lifted last year.

NDSU is in the first year of its five-year transition, although the school is still Division II eligible this year.


Go South Dakota State!





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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 4:12 pm 
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The Mid-Con has a new (better) looking web site. The new commissioner seems to be having a positive effect on the leauge. I also noticed that Oakland beat the Horizon's preseason favorite at the Dell BCA Classic. They play Xavier tonight for the Championship of the tourney. Also UMKC takes on the Gophers tonight in the Pre-Season NIT. If the Mid-Con was to add three well funded State supported schools (SDSU, NDSU, UNC) imagine how much better this conf. could be. They seem to be moving in the right direction.
Here is the web site.

http://www.mid-con.com/

Go State!


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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Expansion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 9:31 am 
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I'd like to see the Mid-Continent take an even more proactive stance: expand AND add football.

A (4) step process that would surely work to expand the conferences revenue and marketing image:

1) Expand by adding Northern Colorado, NDSU, SDSU
2) Add football for members Southern Utah, Northern Colorado, South Dakota State, North Dakota State
3) Add Cal-Poly, UC-Davis, and St. Mary's as football-only memebrs
4) Change the conferences name to the Great West Conference


East
Chicago State
Centenary (LA)
IUPUI
Oakland (MI)
Valpariso (IN)
Western Illinios

West
Missouri-Kansas City
Oral Roberts
Southern Utah
Northern Colorado
South Dakota State
North Dakota State


Football:
Southern Utah
Northern Colorado
South Dakota State
North Dakota State
* UC-Davis
* Cal-Poly
* St. Mary's

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