No one could be a Rutgers football fan with the LOUD MOUTH jerk who is the HC coach of Rutgers.He hires buddies who lack experience in 1A football coaching to lead his team of losers.His record of 3-20 speaks for itself.These jerks under his leadership spent 7.5 million per year to win 1 game last year.

Agreed, that a gutted BigEast might not be a step up from C-USA for Louisville. TCU, SoMiss, ECU, Cincinnati are all good FB teams - while a BigEast without Miami, Syracuse and BC (for instance) would be a one-trick pony of Va-Tech and 4 mediocre to good schools (worst to best: UConn, Rutgers, WestVirginia, Pitt). If Va-Tech goes ACC instead of either Syracuse or BC - then the BigEast is even worse off.

Basketball would be better than C-USA though - with the 6 non-FB members (St. John's, NotreDame, SetonHall, Georgetown, Villanova, Providence) and then maybe either BC or Syracuse (if both don't end up leaving for the ACC), UConn, and Pitt, and now adding Louisville - especially if the move involves Cincinnati too. That would be a heck of a BB conference!




One - this conference would kill UL and UC FB - and UConn FB couldn't afford a move to a non-FB conference either (you've only listed 4 FB schools (2 really weak ones) - so I'm assuming there are no others in your new conference).

Two - two teams in Cincinnati (Cincinnati and Xavier) and two teams in Philadelphia (Villanova and Temple) in the same conference might be a little redundant. Of course, they are all fine BB schools, but conferences and TV contracts like multiple markets. When 4 of your big 7 cover only two cities, you need to re-shuffle a bit.




The Big11 doesn't want Pitt - or Syracuse or any other eastern school (both have been rumored and flatly denied in the past by the Big11). There was even a rumor about Rutgers (can you believe it?). The Big11 seem completely content staying at 11 until NotreDame finally picks a conference (theirs or someone else's).

If NotreDame picks a conference that isn't the Big11 - expect to see the Big11 look west to balance the divisions in FB power. As it stands the 3 major FB powers would all be in the east division (PennSt, UMich and OhioState). The Big11 needs a traditional FB power in the western division to balance the potential Big11 Championship ticket.

Does anyone think a UMich-NW'tern, OhioState-Minnesota or PennSt-Indiana match-up has enough drawing power to bother expanding the conference to get? Illinois, Iowa or Wisconsin would be the only western schools the networks would want to see in that kind of game - and it still wouldn't be a must-see. The networks would want a chance each year at a premiere match-up like NotreDame-UMich/OhioState/PennSt.

Someone commented on here that UMich and Indiana don't want NotreDame in conference - well, UMich didn't want PennSt in either. And the lack of support from Indiana and UMich didn't keep the Big11 from inviting them just a few years ago. Fortunately for the rest of the Big11, UMich doesn't pull the strings for the conference.

Frankly, I've never heard of a time when Louisville was satisfied with the conference they were in. They've had the two national championships in basketball and despite what looks like an SEC budget, are usually disappointing in football.

I'd like to seem them relocate because the subject of Louisville's future is getting tiresome! :-X

Cal Cajun, it's getting old on me too. If you see a post with Tigershark's name on it, just ignore it. The only reason I'm even debating with Tigerguppy2 right now is to let off tensions that have been building up at work some. ;)

nert,

Was just mulling through some possibilities, it's becoming increasingly obvious that the more reshuffling occurs, the more the bottom will drop out on the have-nots in college football. It's definitely not a good thing to have teams like West Va and Va Tech shoved into a C-USA type arrangement. Well, unless people don't mind having all the talent heavily concentrated (more than it is already) in the 6 BCS conferences (which may whittle down to 5 or 4).

As far as Pitt to the Big 10 goes, Joe Pa has at least gone public about wanting Pitt. Granted, he can't get anything done over there, and they'd MUCH rather have ND, but if ND gives them the finger and the ACC or BE goes to 12, the Big 11 can't wait too long. Or they won't anyway. When all's said and done, they may wait for ND. ND is burning bridges, and if the BE implodes, they'll have nowhere to go but the Big 11. If there are only 5 super BCS conferences, they'll make life hell for ND as an independent. The Big 10 could stick them in the West, and maybe they're gonna play a waiting game and hope ND flinches. It's the best possible "get" for them. But if they get depserate, who can they go to put Pitt? I've heard that Missouri and Iowa St. have rebuffed them not long ago. And I've heard that it was Syracuse that told the Big 10 they weren't interested. Granted, all rumor, but I've never heard that it was the other way around. Maybe they're hoping for a shot at the other football power who refused them in the past, Nebraska. If you're looking for a quality team in the west that will attract interest, its the Huskers. That'll never though, at least not until something happens to shake up the Big 12. The only thing I can think of that would accomplish that is a reboot of the SEC. If an SEC reboot ever does take place, I honestly think there will be a Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma package to fill out the new SEC west, with Miss St. and USC, and possibly Vandy, out of the picture. Also, Oklahoma has everything to lose if the Big 12 fragments while the other conferences expand. Far fetched, sure, but there's an obscene amount of money to be made, and it would be a plus in football as well as basketball. Texas, A&M, Oklahoma, Arkansas, LSU, and Mississippi are a pretty natural division in a conference.

Pretty dramatic change, but not impossible the further along we go. The sad thing is, programs like K State may be casualties, like Va Tech or West Va may soon be.

You're right - that is all rumor. Unlike the ACC that denies talking to Miami, BC, Syracuse et al (even though Miami says they have been contacted) - the Big11 makes open invitations. There is no history of them back-dooring anybody. When they invited PennSt - it was all in the open and was public knowledge prior to PennSt accepting the invite. When they invited NotreDame - it was all in the open and was public knowledge prior to NotreDame turning the invite down.

The rumors of Missouri, IowaState, Syracuse, Pitt etc have been nothing but rumors - probably started on sports bulletin boards (most likely by fans of the respective "invitees"). Long after the "facts" (if you want to call these rumored invites that), there has never been any statements by anyone (on either side)that would have been "in the know" of there having been an invite or a rebuff. That's an awful lot of silence in a industry that leaks secrets like a seive.

Just for an aside, there were rumors and even stories in the major newspapers about the prospects of Miami(OH) becoming the 12 member of the Big11. Can you imagine anything as ridiculous as that? As long as the Big11 remains just one team short of 12 - the rumors will be endless - and many ridiculous. There were also rumors about Texas and Colorado, but there was never anything to them either.

In the end, the Big11 is too full of itself to invite anyone who they don't feel measures up. You may remember the very public debate about NotreDame not measuring up to the Big11 standards for academic research institutions. That debate almost kept even NotreDame from being invited to the conference in the first place. You think they would even consider taking a "city school" like Pitt or Syracuse? Not with the way the Big11 alums view those schools - no way. In the midwest, Pitt and Syracuse are viewed as the same types of schools as Cincinnati and Louisville. (Not my attitude - just trying to tell you the midwest attitude about it). They wouldn't even consider it.

Besides - if IowaState, Pitt, Syracuse, Missouri etc were actually invited to the Big11 - is there any chance that they would say "no"? I think not. There is way too much money involved in being a Big11 school.

At this point, the Big11 has sat at 11 teams for about 10 years waiting for NotreDame - which still is uncommitted. With the NBC contract not panning out financially for NBC and the BCS conferences "finally" seeming to be willing to leave NotreDame outside looking in (no NotreDame in the BCS Bowls in 2002 despite being "qualified"), the time may be over when NotreDame gets all it wants and gives up nothing.

I also can't see the Big11 (after giving up about 10 years of conference championship games and all the money it could have made by staging them) suddenly jumping the gun and taking a lesser team now. Until NotreDame commits to someone (anyone), the Big11 is going to wait them out.

If NotreDame goes somewhere else, then the Big11 may look elsewhere (not a given), but not before then. The one exception is if the Big11 is approached by another national powerhouse in FB - maybe Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas, Miami(FL) or FloridaState. In that case, they may decide to take another national FB program despite geography and quit waiting for NotreDame.

Interesting that you mentioned Miami, FL, nert. If they're sitting out there, wouldn't surprise me if they think outside the box (assuming ND has declined the invite again) and pull them in. There are a zillion pluses to the Big 11 having a Florida member.

The Big 12, down the road, could be vulnerable. All it takes is for a divide to emerge between the Texas schools and the old Big 8. A couple of openings in the SEC would really get rumors going.

Totally agree, Big 11 has always been above board, but these dicussions have to begin somehow, and the Big 11 might be forced to slum it a bit to feel potential members out.

It'll be interesting to see where the game of musical chairs stops. If the ACC goes to 12 and ND goes to the Big 11, that may be the end of it. The Pac 10 will be the big winner if things get crazy. If something (like an SEC reorganization) shakes up the Big 12, they'll be loving life. Snag Colorado, and wait for the most desirable 12th member.

I do think that many years down the road, we may see Oklahoma, Texas, and Texas A&M in a reshuffled SEC. The money would be obscene, in both major sports, and sooner or later, Vandy and Miss St. may hit the road. I don't think UT or Ole Miss would mind try to keep them in. Not sure where the third opening would be. Maybe Lou will get USC in trouble.

Miss State, Vandy, and So. Carolina are not leaving the SEC even if there are major realignments elsewhere.
As to any potential NCAA violations from any two of those, look at Alabama and Kentucky this past year, and they certainly are not going anyway. To view Miss State as less than Ole Miss (and/or Arkansas) in terms of size, academic standards, and performance in all other sports, one needs to examine more closely. As for South Carolina, there is a lot of envy out there regarding their fan support and facilities. As for Vanderbilt, they are the SEC's version of Northwestern or Duke.

DogsNRoosters,
Northwestern has won the Big Ten in football a couple of times in recent history. Duke is a power in ACC basketball. However, compare the two to Vanderbilt. When was the last time Vanderbilt won the SEC? Is Vanderbilt a powerhouse in any sport? (I'll even let baseball be an option on this one). Let me tell you what is going on down at Tulane. The Tulane president is very concerned about the state of athletics right now, and there are a lot of bean counters (pro-academics) that would love to make Tulane either drop down to D3 or eliminate athletics entirely. Vanderbilt is not that much different from Tulane with the exception that Vandy is in a BCS conference. How much that helps, I do not know. But I do know that Vanderbilt has been more and more concerned about academics recently, and I'm sure that Vandy's faculty would shed no tears if the football team went to D3 or was eliminated altogether. If Vandy's faculty sees a victory for Tulane's faculty in the academics vs athletics debate, I have no doubt that Vandy's faculty would be working to achieve the same goal at their school.

Dogsnthingys,

I wasn't taking a shot at Miss St., Vandy, or USC. You're right about each of the school's assets, no doubt. I've always liked the Bulldogs. USC fans are like Cubs fans, ALWAYS show up win or lose. Vandy is the academic flagship of the SEC, no one else in the conference is close.

I have no idea what rules would even govern SEC reorganization. But if the conference could make the swap, Texas, Texas A&M, and Oklahoma for Miss St., Vandy, and USC, they'd do it in a heartbeat. If it came down to Ole Miss vs. Miss St., I suspect Ole Miss would win that contest. I have no intimate knowledge of Ole Miss connections, but I suspect it's like Bama vs. Auburn or UF vs. FSU. Ole Miss probably has more political clout, for right or wrong, and they probably have a larger following. There may also be enough bad blood that they'd enjoy leaving Miss St. out in the cold. Given another opportunity, I doubt that UF would allow FSU to blossom so close by.

This is all totally speculative stuff. No shot on any of those schools. But facts are facts. If it came down to a contest between FSU and UF for one spot, UF would probably win. Until just recently, FSU's president was UF alum. The guy was actually filmed celebrating when the Gators beat us in the Sugar Bowl. Funny if you hate the Seminoles, but that tells you waht kind of clout the old UF alums have. Things are gradually changing, but UF still has most of the power in this state. I suspect the same is true of Ole Miss. USC may or may not have more clout than Clemson, I don't know, but the contest wouldn't be between those two. It'd be between the SEC keeping USC or adding a team like A&M or Oklahoma. I think USC can be agreatmember in a league, but if the SEC could add those teams, in terms of money, they'd be fools not to. Even Big 10 fans would watch this version of the SEC:

West

Arkansas
LSU
Oklahoma
Ole Miss
Texas
Texas A&M

East

Alabama
Auburn
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
Tennessee

The Eastern division alone would be a dream for football fans in the tri states (FL, GA, and AL in this neck of the woods). And the rotating cross division games would be huge. Imagine the ratings for UF vs. Texas, or Oklahoma vs. Tennessee? It'd even be great in basketball. Oklahoma vs. UK, Texas vs. Florida. Conference title games between Texas/Oklahoma and Bama/Florida.....wow.

DawgNDuckFan & ACCNole:
Hi, I appreciate both your comments and you raise valid points. Let's just say I am a bit bias. I went to three SEC schools plus a private and a southern conference school (of course upward graduate programs included), live in the backyard of a Big 10 University and have worked for a sports-oriented division II college many years. Therefore, my speculation comes from all kinds of direction I suppose.
I concur that Vanderbilt has not distinguished itself athletically in a long time, and they may undergo more self-analysis sooner or later. My thought is that each conference has a team or two that are going to perennially struggle, considering their rivals, especially in football. But when one thinks there is little or no hope for some, suddenly a few explode on the scene i. e. Kansas State, Oregon State. As all know, even Virginia Tech (& UVA) spent years being mediocre. Teams like South Carolina and Mississippi State, when one thinks there is not much hope, will suddenly burst out with a great season or two. The problem is showing a sustained run, like several years in a row. I mean look at South Carolina, who defeated Ohio State in the January, 2001 and 2002 Citrus Bowls, and then turns back somewhat to their old ways while Ohio State wins the January, 2003 National Championship. However, those two Citrus Bowl wins were a first for S. Carolina while one can count on one hand their overall bowl wins (and have a finger or two left).
The mega-type conference speculation of all traditional powers has its enticing elements. Personally, I think it would tend to make it even more difficult for schools with lesser resources to try to play by the rules while working to move up. I guess whenever I hear the "Texas" thing, I think of boastful size and the "Bushy" stuff (really toungeNcheek). When one says Notre Dame gets more than its share of attention and consideration, I think, OK, that's Notre Dame. When I hear "Texas", I say geeezzzz! (I do have Rice and A&M relatives).
With the exception of some teams like Southern Cal and Florida State, many of these "big time" teams will schedule some really patsy out-of-conference home games. With this logic, I think the super-powers in each major conference prefer having a team or two they can dominate season after season. However, if one conference, such as the SEC moved more in that direction, it would be prudent to have others do the same, and refine further what it means to be 1-A. Somehow, I would like to see more incentives for conference super-teams play more other out-of-conference super-teams, in season. In other words, having the in-season 12th game should be more than just a golden opportunity for a expected top twenty-five University scheduling a 1-AA opponent (or someone like it) for a given win. On the other hand, some say K-State's revival was undertaken with just this sort of thing. Interesting guys!

I'll make a bet with you DogsNCo_ks: I bet that Duke will get better in football before Vanderbilt does. If I lose my bet, I have to root for the Fighting Roosters against my Dawgs for one season. Is it a deal? I'll tell you why I'm making this bet: Duke makes tons of $$$ on its basketball program, and can afford to dabble in football some. Vandy has nothing that is bringing in the dough. Tulane has an outstanding college baseball team, plus a decent football team (they defeated Hawaii in the Hawaii Bowl this year), and they're still looking at moving down a division!!! What does that say for a school like Vandy who is much worse off than Tulane? (BCS excluded). Sure, in football, you're going to have your patsies that get beat up year after year, but sooner or later, even those patsies start doing things to surprise you. Look at Duke back in '94. Duke, the notorious basketball school, actually made it to a college football bowl game. Pretty impressive. Look at Northwestern. Same deal. Heck, look at Navy a few years back when they went to that bowl game against Cal. And Navy is much more restrictive than Vandy!!! If you're on the Vandy board of trustees, you've got to be doing some serious wondering about the state of the football program. Yet, Vandy just keeps plodding along. To their credit, they did something they haven't done in awhile: they hired a proven head coach. And this coach has coached at a demanding private school, so this should be a familiar challenge to him. But here's where I think Vandy might be in some serious trouble.
Every conference has it powerhouses and doormats for every sport. Auburn has long been a powerhouse in football, and yet for years, Auburn was a doormat in men's basketball. And I'd say Auburn still is a doormat in women's basketball. Duke and Indiana are usually pretty bad in football, but they've got stellar basketball programs to make up for it. Even when the Oregon State Beavers stunk up the joint in football, they had a great basketball team to rely on to bring in the dough. NBA great A.C. Green used to play on it. Same deal with Mississippi State and even South Carolina. K-State is the only one I'm not sure about. I don't recall hearing much about Wildcat hoops, men or women's, and I don't recall hearing a whole lot about Wildcat baseball either. My point is this: with the possible exception of K-State, every team in just about every conference usually pulls its own weight in some sport.
Vandy isn't pulling their weight, and that's a red flag to me, IMO.

DawgsNDucks,
Georgia (not Fresno)-Oregon, I assume, is indeed a unique intersectional combination; I like that. I just hope my screen name is not interpreted for alternative porm- lol. Actually, the dog thing is UGA/Miss State and of course them roosters. When they play each other, the mixed emotions get enhanced. It depends on who gains what at the time.
I am not sure I am the one to even attempt to defend Vandy football or their athletics in general. In a bit younger days, I attended a couple of games in Nashville. Comparatively a bit smaller stadium (around 40,000), but a nice atmosphere. In one of those, they had Alabama on the ropes and tuckered out the last seven game minutes or so and lost. I had the impression then, going back some in time, they were a somewhat competitive team and would have a respectable record if they were playing in a conference not as brutalizing as the SEC.
Hiring Furman's former coach may prove beneficial. Even Woddenhofler (not sure of spelling) had some excellent defenses, but never got it going on both sides of the ball. With close-by Middle Tennessee going 1-A and haven beaten Vandy, and Nashville having a pro team, I view Vandy's task as even more difficult. I once saw their roster, and their players were from all over the country. I expect Dukes' about the same. Vandy does not appear to have a solid recruiting base in Tennessee but appears to go national for student athletes. Unless the private institution is Notre Dame, Miami, or Southern Cal, a private like Vanderbilt is going to get second tier prime recruits that show academic promise. Even Southern Cal and Miami have in-state recruiting bases.
I am not sure I disagree with your points. However, I expect them to remain in the SEC at least for the immediate future, and I do not see external pressure for them to exit. As you elaborated, the change may emerge from the institution itself due to finances. I am just not familiar with their budget circumstances. They do have an influential and prosperous alumni.
As for Duke, maybe a Steve Spurrier will again emerge on the scene. Look at Wake, they made a great move acquiring Ohio Us' coaching staff.
Duke and Wake did play Vandy during the last few years and Vandy dominated. Actually, I would like to see them play more of each other regularly. Vandy has Georgia Tech scheduled again this year. Not good for Vandy.

has rick pitino's big surprise that thingy vitale talked about been revealed yet?

Speaking of Vandy, I seen on the the Conference Realignment Forum headlines that Vandy sent 6 tennis players to the NCAA tennis tournament in Atlanta. Way to go Vandy!!! It's a start!!! Now, let's try for baseball, women's basketball, and men's basketball. I can be patient on football for awhile. 8-)