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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2002 12:39 pm 
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Here's the starting point for PAC-10 expansion/realignment issues:

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Last edited by Quinn on Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2002 3:07 pm 
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PAC-10 should add Utah/BYU. Attendence for BYU puts it in the biggers schools in the far west. This would be good for them both, they would make more money from being in a conference that gets more attendence than the MWC. BYU had to drop some programs because of money recently. Utah may (or may not) need to upgrade their football program. Coach Mac has done good things but they are in the celler this year.

Why stay in the MWC? Maybe bigger fish in a smaller pond but more money to be made moving to PAC-10.



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2002 12:18 am 
The Rainbow Warriors are also within the Pacific region, too, right? The volleyball teams, football teams, and basketball teams wil have good company, their recruiting stock will go up, and the thought of Vili "The Warrior" Fehoko roaming the Rose Bowl are not bad ideas, don't you think?

Just my humble opinion... ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:46 pm 
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Hachiko, got to agree with you on Hawaii. As a Duck fan, it would truly be a wonderful away game for my Ducks, and it would give the Pac 10 another bowl. The Pac 10 might actually go for that, considering the status of some of the bowls that the Pac 10 has a tie-in for. (Oregon AD Bill Moos commented that the Silicon Valley Bowl has yet to receive certification from the NCAA, and the bowl itself may go under.)
As for the other team, I really don't have a favorite. I wouldn't mind having UNLV, but I'm not sure the Pac 10 would spring for them. The likely choice is Utah, but I'm not sold on them, and I'm not sure the Pac 10 is that sold on them either. Colorado may be pursued, and, according to what I heard from a friend of mine in LA, Colorado State is also interested in Pac 10 expansion.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2003 5:29 pm 
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The PAC-10 needs to expand to 12 teams to have a conference championship.

Here's the line-up:

2 Divisions:

Division A: 1. USC 2. Arizona 3. Washington State 4. Oregon State 5. Stanford 6. Utah

Division B: 1. UCLA 2. ASU 3. Washington 4. Oregon 5. Cal 6. Colorado

Annually, each team plays every other team in its division, plus its natural geographic rival from the other division (e.g., UCLA vs. USC, Stanford vs. Cal), plus one other team from the other division on a rotating basis.

After looking at the possible candidates for expansion, Colorado and Utah seem the best choices of the following potential candidates: Colorado, Utah, Hawaii, BYU, SDSU, Fresno, UNLV, Colorado State, Boise State. Colorado is likely the only school that would leave a BCS conference to join the PAC-10 (12) that is a reasonable fit from an athletic, academic, political and philosophical standpoint. Texas has been mentioned in the past, but I doubt they would leave the Big 12, considering their ties to the other Texas schools and Oklahoma, not to mention the geography. Utah makes geographic sense as a travel partner with Colorado, they have an excellent basketball program, and an average football program, with an excellent new stadium. Utah is a good academic fit, with very good medical and law schools, strong research institution, and is politically and philosophically in line with the other PAC schools -- not unlike Oregon, Arizona, Washington and Colorado. Hawaii doesn't have a natural travel partner, is decent in basketball and occasionally good in football. Adding Hawaii adds significant travel costs, especially for the minor sports. BYU draws a lot of fans to a 60k stadium and has an occasionally decent bball team, but will not play games on Sunday (problem for minor sports) and is not a good political and philosophical fit with the other schools; this may be a problem for the university presidents. SDSU and Fresno have decent facilities; Fresno has competitive teams in football and bball, but the university presidents at UCLA and Cal would have a hard time adding CSU schools to the league. Plus, they don't really bring any new markets into the conference. UNLV is not really competitive in football, and its stadium is too small. The school is not a great fit academically. Boise State and CSU field good football teams, but they are not good fits academically and don't have particularly good facilities.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 6:16 pm 
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I'm sure the Pac 10 would love to have Texas, but I don't see that happening. Even though it would be interesting . . .

Colorado I'm not so sure about. I think the Pac 10 blew it by laying an egg in its bowl games. The Pac 10 has to offer Colorado more to lure them in. If USC can continue this rennaissance, and the other flagship programs like Washington and UCLA can get it together, and if the Pac 10 can win a title and win consistently in bowl games, I think they would at least intrigue Colorado. If Colorado St. continues its success, maybe the Pac-10 could offer both schools membership? I think the Pac-10 would consider Colorado St., but only if it increased it's chances of pulling in the Buffaloes. Of all the conferences, the Pac-10 is the least likely to expand. I'd love to see them set up a title game, but the only teams that are a good fit are too happy where they are. Or it seems that way. If Texas or Colorado got the shaft in the Big 12 somehow, either school might schop around if only to scare the Big 12 into accomodating them, but I don't think the Pac 10 offers them anything they can't get in the Big 10. Plus the Big 10 would probably be more lucrative in football.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2003 12:42 pm 
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If the Big East and Big 10 eventually expand to 12, will the Pac 10 expand and what schools would be good candidates?

Nert, what are the chances of Utah joining the Pac 10 or possibly the Pac 12.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2003 12:52 pm 
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I think the Utah Legislature would go ape if Utah went to the Pac 10 and BYU was left in the MWC.

I think the Pac 10 would give their eye-teeth to get Colorado, and if things weren't going well for the Buffs in the Big 12 they'd probably move over, but with them winning a share of the title every year there's no reason for them to move. Recruiting would probably be a wash if they moved, since they'd get boatloads more Cali talent, but lose a lot of Texas talent. Financially they'd be no better off, since Big 12 makes good money with it's title game and they're very succesful in hoops. The Pac 10 tv contract would certainly improve with the addition of Colorado, but it might just putit on par with the Big 12. Little incentive to move for Colorado, and they're the only team that the Pac 10 wants who would go their way. If Texas ever moves, it'll be to the SEC for crazy amounts of money. Too bad BYU won't fit institutionally, then they could just bring in two Utah schools. They'd be nice as a package for the Pac 10. Solid fan support, and BYU would definitely move up a notch in football. A few extra Cali recruits and BCS membership would make all the difference for them. Utah would improve a quality basketball conference (and it would be easier for Majeris to recruit top shelf talent).


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2003 1:00 pm 
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Btw, I agree that Colorado and Utah might be the two best gets for the Pac 10. Good institutional fits and boh schools would really add quality in a major sport. But unfortunately there are major hurdles that will amke this pairing impossible. If the Pac 10 ever decides they can tolerate BYU, I think Utah and BYU would move ina heartbeat. From a pure fan support and football perspective, the best possible deal for the Pac 10 is Colorado and BYU. BYU would improve with the move, so the conference would add two quality football programs with quality fan support. I think that'd put the Pac 10 nearly on par with the other 12 member conferences. USC is definitely back, but the conference's bowl performance was an embarassment (especially since I thought they were top 2).


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2003 3:08 pm 
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BYU does not play sports on Sunday and my hurt any chances to become a BCS school.

Some schools that may work for the Pac 10 without the issues of raiding another BCS conference. Utah, Boise State (Idaho was a member of the Pac 10 at one time and Boise State has become the top school), and Hawaii.

The Pac 10 is big on academics and may not approve of San Diego State and UNLV. These two schools would be my favorite because both are very close to Phoenix and both are really fun cities that have bowls.

Maybe Stanford could share some of its academic might to assist with academic upgrades.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2003 7:59 pm 
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If the acc and big 10 raid the big east..... then the pac 10 needs to go to 12. too much money in champ game not to. the leftovers of the big east rutgers, syr or pitt, wv, conn, will have to raid the cusa and mac for their best Louisville, s. miss, Usf, Ucf, Marshall, cincy along with 1 or 2 others to form a new Big East hybred. If they can hold on to part of the new bcs deal then U end Up with 6 super conferences.... everyone else becomes 1aa or possibly a new inbetween 1a-2. the distance between the haves n have nots grows even more.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 9:32 am 
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knightgood, agree that BE and ACC should expand to 12 using Conf USA teams.

The Pac 10 could add some of the following two team scenerios to reach 12.

Utah and New Mexico may be two good teams. New Mexico is in a fast growing metro area and has a really fun basketball program that would compete with the Arizona schools. Football would improve with Pac 10 membership.

New Mexico and Colorado State?

Utah and BYU may not work, however, would follow the current two team per state with California having split in north and south with two teams.

This provides 6 12 team BCS conferences.

There is room for one more BCS conference and leave and at large bid. The MWC needs to expand to 12 providing the west with another BCS conference.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 11:46 am 
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Utah seems like the safest bet, except for the BYU problem. The state won't let them go without BYU. Otherwise, a solid fit for the PAC 10, could improve in football, and would definitely help the conference in basketball. The only other school that the Pac 10 would really be interested is Colorado. Colorado's probably too happy where they are, and Utah is stuck because of BYU. If BYU played Sunday and changed a little academically, the Pac 10 might snag them as a package. Maybe not too eagerly, but I think they'd pull them in once everyone else went to 12. But BYU won't change....so they're stuck.

If The SEC every realigns that'll shift everyone in the southern half of the US, because they'd definitely work something out with the two big Texas schools for insane money, and the Big 12 would be in a weaker spot than the Pac 10. Then you might see Colorado head West, and panicky Oklahoma and Nebraska trying to make the best deal they can, either by raiding C-USA and the MWC to become the weakest (but still decent) former BCS conference, or by stealing the last seats at the table in the Big 10 or Pac 10.

That may never happen, so the MWC really ought to raid the WAC while they can. Too bad TCU already bailed out. If the MWC could land Boise St., Fresno, AND TCU, they could make a great argument for a BCS bid. Money's probably better for TCU in C-USA though, getting a share of the hoops revenue.

One more thought on the very unlikely event of SEC realignment, if the conference does realign, theoretically they'd be willing to boot South Carolina, Vandy, and Miss St.....at least I think they would if Oklahoma, Texas, and Texas A&M came in. Although it'd be a radical shift, if the SEC realigns at all, it'd be a brilliant move. That'd only leave Nebraska as a potential target for the Big 10 (they tried before).


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 12:15 pm 
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Assuming some shifts get the SEC moving, here's what could happen (assuming a lot, no doubt about it):

SEC and top Big 12 southern schools work out a deal to be the best athletic conference in the country (in terms of raw athletes):

SEC

East

Alabama
Auburn
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
Tennessee

West

Arkansas
LSU
Oklahoma
Ole Miss
Texas
Texas A&M

Fractured Big 12 teams begin competing for new homes. Colorado immediately bolts for Pac 10, and after tremendous (and futile) battle to free up Utah, Colorado St. follows along.

North

Cal
Oregon
Oregon St.
Stanford
Washington
Washington St.

South

Arizona
Arizona St.
Colorado
Colorado St.
UCLA
USC

After a tremendous tussle between the ACC and BE, frustrated pro-expansionists from the ACC leave to join a BE super conference, which attracts the interest of increasingly unhappy (especially with recruiting suffering) Penn State.

North

BC
Maryland
Notre Dame
Penn State
Pitt
Syracuse

South

Clemson
Ga Tech
FSU
Miami
Virginia Tech
West Va

The Big 10, now back at 10, is in negotiations with the most desirable schools left from the old Big 12. Minnesota, increasingly the outsider in the conference, is given the boot in favor of much more valuable new members. The new Big "12," despite the loss of Penn State, has arguably never been better:

West

Iowa
Illinois
Kansas
Missouri
Nebraska
Wisconsin

East

Indiana
Michigan
Michigan St.
Northwestern
Ohio State
Purdue

The remains:

The old ACC, the SEC cast offs, the BE leftovers, C-USA, the MAC, the MWC, the WAC, and the Big-12 castoffs begin the contest to form at least one quality football conference. My guess is a new conference would form with Miss/Louisiana and Texas/Ok divisions. A single WAC/MWC would form, the MAC and some of the C-USA teams would reach an agreement, and the ACC would either pull in USC and Vandy and one or two BE castoffs to form a weak football but powerful academic and all-sports (especially basketball) conference (maybe pulling in G-Town and Temple), or turn into the Atlantic 10 south.

Borderline fantasy stuff (though of the SEC moves, it'll shake all foundations and the Big 12 will suffer), but then so is Pac 10 expansion. It'll take something huge to make that happen.




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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 2:49 am 
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HERE'S MY TAKE ON PAC-10 EXPANSION AND IN REALITY ITS THE BEST FOR THE CONFERENCE BY FAR. TO EXPAND TO 12 TEAMS IS THE GOAL THE PAC-10 SHOULD HAVE.

THERE IS NO WAY THAT THE PAC-10 WILL "EVER" CONVINCE EITHER TEXAS OR COLORADO TO LEAVE THEIR COMFORT ZONE THERE IN THE BIG 12 CONFERENCE. SO, IT SHOULD HONESTLY LOOK ELSEWHERE.

I REALIZE THE THOUGHT OF HAVING BOTH BYU AND UTAH SOUNDS LIKE A NEAT IDEA BUT WHAT KIND OF TELEVISION MARKET DO THEY BOTH REPRESENT? YES, ITS TRUE THE MORMON MARKET COULD BE HUGE, BUT KEEP IN MIND, THE MORMON MARKET EXPANDS INTO "EVERY" TEAM IN EVERY CONFERENCE IN THE COUNTRY, NOT JUST TO THE 2 UTAH TEAMS AS MOST OF THE WORLD THINKS IT DOES.

MY THOUGHT IS TO GRAB THE 2 SCHOOLS WITH THE LARGEST TELEVISION MARKET AREAS, THE BEST FACILITIES AVAILABLE, THE 2 WITH CITIES THAT WOULD EASILY SUPPORT THE CONFERENCE IN ALL SPORTS, AND THE 2 SCHOOLS WITH A SOLID "POTENTIAL" TO BRING EXTRA BOWLS TO THE CONFERENCE.

THESE TWO SCHOOLS ALSO WOULD FIT PERFECTLY FOR A DIVISIONAL SPLIT IN THE NEW PAC-12 CONFERENCE.

...AND THESE 2 SCHOOLS ARE SAN DIEGO STATE AND UNLV, AND HERE'S WHY...

BOTH SCHOOLS ARE LOCATED IN THE LARGEST TELEVISION MARKETS AND LARGEST METROPOLITAN AREAS IN THE WESTERN STATES THAT ARE OUTSIDE THE CURRENT PAC-10 SCHOOL BOUNDRIES. BOTH SAN DIEGO CALIFORNIA AND LAS VEGAS NEVADA ARE 2 OF THE LARGEST CITIES IN THE COUNTRY AND ARE EXTREMELY PROGRESSIVE IN BUSINESS, POPULATION GROWTH AND BOTH HAVE LOTS OF $$$$.

BOTH SAN DIEGO STATE AND UNLV HAVE FIRST CLASS SPORTS FACILITIES. YES, UNLV FOOTBALL STADIUM WOULD NEED TO BE EXPANDED SOME, BUT THAT WOULD BE AN EASY TASK. (HECK, IF U-CONN CAN BUILD THEMSELVES A BRAND NEW 40,000 SEAT STADIUM IN ONLY THEIR 3RD YEAR OF DIVISION 1 FOOTBALL STATUS IN ANTICIPATION OF JOINING THE BIG EAST IN 2005, THEN SO CAN UNLV). PLUS, SAN DIEGO MAY GET A NEW STADIUM THEMSELVES SOON WITH THE SAN DIEGO CHARGERS LOOKING TO BUILD A NEW FACILITY AND ARE IN CURRENT TALKS WITH THE CITY OF SAN DIEGO, IN WHICH SAN DIEGO STATE WOULD ALSO PLAY. IF NOT, QUALCOMM STADIUM WITH ITS 62,000 SEATS IS STILL A WONDERFUL COLLEGE FOOTBALL VENUE.

BOTH SAN DIEGO (HOLIDAY BOWL) AND LAS VEGAS (LAS VEGAS BOWL) HAVE BOWL GAMES THAT THE PAC-10 IS ALREADY INVOLVED IN AND THOSE PARTICULAR BOWLS WOULD BE "THRILLED" TO HAVE THEIR LOCAL SCHOOLS HAVE A SHOT AT REPRESENTING THE NEW PAC-12 IN THOSE BOWL GAMES.

ALSO, SAN DIEGO STATE HAS IN PLACE WONDERFUL COACHING STAFFS FOR THIS KIND OF EXPANSION. COACH STEVE FISHER IN BASKETBALL, COACH TONY GWYNN IN BASEBALL AND OFFENSIVE WIZARD COACH TOM CRAFT FOR FOOTBALL. THE AZTECS VENUES ARE TOP RATE ALSO, WITH THE NEW 12,000 SEAT COX ARENA FOR BASKETBALL, NEW TONY GWYNN BASEBALL STADIUM, AND THE BEFORE MENTIONED QUALCOMM STADIUM.

LIKEWISE, UNLV'S THOMAS AND MACK CENTER FOR BASKETBALL IS TOP OF THE LINE AS IS THEIR OTHER SPORTS FACILITIES.

HERE IS HOW THE NEW PAC-12 WOULD BREAK DOWN INTO 2 GEOGRAPHICALLY SPLIT DIVISIONS:


NORTHWEST DIVISION:

WASHINGTON
WASHINGTON STATE
OREGON
OREGON STATE
STANFORD
CALIFORNIA


SOUTHWEST DIVISION:

ARIZONA
ARIZONA STATE
USC
UCLA
SDSU
UNLV


EACH DIVISION WOULD CONTAIN SCHOOLS FROM 3 WESTERN STATES. EACH WOULD HAVE AT LEAST 2 SCHOOLS FROM CALIFORNIA, AND BOTH DIVISIONS WOULD BE PERFECTLY DIVIDED FOR INTER-DIVISIONAL COMPETITION AND TRAVEL. DONT BELIEVE ME?, THEN LOOK AT A MAP. THERE ISN'T A BETTER GEOGRAPHIC SET UP FOR THE CREATION OF 2 DIVISIONS THEN THIS ONE.

FOR THOSE NAYSAYERS THAT SAY "HIGH" ACADEMIC STANDARDS THAT ARE CURRENTLY IN THE PAC-10 WOULD RULE BOTH SCHOOLS OUT, THEN ANSWER ME THESE SIMPLE QUESTIONS: WERE BOTH ARIZONA AND ARIZONA STATE'S INVITATION INTO THE THEN PACIFIC 8 CONFERENCE BASED ON THEIR ACADEMIC EXCELLENCE OR FOR THEIR GEOGRAPHIC FIT? , OR FOR THAT MATTER, DOES USC FIT INTO THE SAME "ACADEMIC" STANDARD AS DOES UCLA OR STANFORD? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!

THIS NEW PACIFIC-12 CONFERENCE WOULD TRULY BENEFIT FROM THE ADDITION OF THESE 2 UNIVERSITIES, THEIR RESPECTIVE CITIES AND THEIR LARGE TELEVISION MARKETS.

THERE IS NO LIMIT TO WHAT THE CONFERENCE COULD DO WITH THE COMBINED FORCES OF THE WEST'S LARGEST CITIES AND TELEVISION MARKETS, ...IE:
LOS ANGELES, SAN DIEGO, SAN FRANCISCO, OAKLAND, SEATTLE, PHOENIX AND LAS VEGAS...AMONG OTHERS.

IT WOULD THEN TRULY DOMINATE THE WEST AND WOULD FURTHER INTRIGUE BOTH NATIONAL RECRUITING AND INTEREST IN THE CONFERENCE AND BOWL POSSIBILITIES.


Last edited by aztecjeff on Wed Apr 30, 2003 3:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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