Why hasn't North Dakota and South Dakota not made a move to Division 1? Can someone please answer me that. fbg

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I can tell you about USD. First off they are about 1/2 the size of SDSU and they have finical issues. They recently lost a Title IX suite and had to drop their baseball team. They have a new AD (last one was fired in part because he could not raise $$$) and a new football coach. They are fighting hard to stay viable at the D-II ranks. Someday they may move up to D-I, but right now they are along ways off. I will let one of the Bison tell you about what is going on up North.

http://www.usdcoyotes.com/sports/news/release.asp?RELEASE_ID=1831&session=FMuLVNObUxDSx01VPXbEAm7eyO

I am a UND alumnus who followed the links to this site from today’s Argus-Leader article. Perhaps I can answer why UND is not (yet) going Division I.

First off, UND is Division I national power in hockey with seven national championships (only Michigan with nine has more). With the construction three years ago of the new Ralph Engelstad Arena (www.theralph.com seats 11,500 for hockey, almost 13,000 for basketball), UND hockey is the premiere sporting event in the state, with tickets for rivalry games against Minnesota and Wisconsin especially difficult to get. Almost all games are sold out and total hockey attendance is around 250,000 annually. With a Fighting Sioux Sports cable network that encompasses most of North Dakota, and much of South Dakota and northwestern Minnesota, more regional publicity or stature is not an issue. NDSU chose not to add hockey and neither South Dakota school has the sport.

Second, NCAA rules changing the probation period from 3 years to 5 years (and 13 for basketball) have increased the risk (financially and otherwise) of moving all sports to Division I, especially if you don’t have a conference. If I recall correctly, consultants for SDSU and NDSU specifically warned them not to move to Division I if they didn’t have a conference because of the high cost and low reward of being a Div indepent. They moved up anyway and do not yet have a conference affiliation. Geographically, UND’s location limits their options for conference affiliation (unlike schools in the South and East Coast).

Third, with a limited population base, UND’s leadership picks and choose’s what areas to nationally excel in. For example, a Division I women’s hockey team was started two years ago, with the intention of being a national power within three more years (and that team is on track). At this time, it is probably not realistic for any of the other athletic teams, except football at the I-AA level, to be nationally competitive at the Division I level. Although UND basketball has a lot of tradition (the women are three-time Div II champs, men have made a number of Div II Elite Eight appearances and graduates include Laker Coach Phil Jackson), there are not a lot of Division I-caliber men’s basketball recruits in the area. In hockey, the region has an outstanding recruiting base.

Fourth, success at the Division I level takes great facilities and a decent athletic endowment. UND is working on both, as three years ago the football team moved into a new 13,00 seat indoor Alerus Center (and promptly became Div II champions) and this fall this will open a new 4000 seat arena (attached to the Ralph Engelstad arena and funded by hockey’s profits), which will hold non-conference basketball games and volleyball. If a facilities for indoor track and baseball are built later, and an endowment is built up for the increased Div I scholarship (and if a Div I conference membership was received), UND would be on track to be a successful mid-major Div I school almost immediately.

So long story short, at this time UND is happy being a D-II school that plays D-I Hockey. UND could be a D-I school but chooses not to at this time, USD does not have the finical ability to move up to D-I at this time. I think I speak for most SDSU and NDSU fans when I say good luck to them both and the paths they choose. Hopefully they would wish us well, also. I hope that answears your question footballgod.

As a NDSU alumnist and fan, I would like to see nothing more then UND on the football schedule every year. I think UND fans are just the same. UND will move up before this decade is over in my opinion.

NDSU and SDSU are in the position they should have been in 20 years ago. It will be a definite positive move.

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News from the Big Sky, Doug Fullerton had some interesting things to say that the Big Sky Football media day:

http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2004/07/20/sports/sports01.txt?sessio n=6Ig7cEC48Y7f8AAxkuDvG3VBRe

Griz assume traditional perch
By JON KASPER of the Missoulian

Big Sky commissioner Doug Fullerton said he doesn't think the league "has ever been healthier," in his address to the media, coaches and players on Monday morning

Fullerton said the league presidents will meet Aug. 9 and expansion will once again be explored.

"It will be intense on the expansion issue," he said. "We've done a lot of internal investigating. We'll look at all schools west of Minneapolis."

North Dakota State, South Dakota State and Northern Colorado have all made the jump from Division II to I-AA and joined the newly formed Great West football Conference, along with Southern Utah, Cal Poly and UC Davis.

Fullerton said a 12-team Big Sky would be too large and there would be no advantage to holding a conference championship game prior to the playoffs.

und had a lot of objection to moving up. Their efforts to discourage or discredit the move by NDSU and SDSU has been less than pleasant.

They cited concerns over scandle with too much empahsis on winning, increased budgets, travel costs, no conference, no benefit just your name rolling across the screen, not enough talent around, it would deny North Dakota kids a chance to play for a state school because they arent good enough to play DI, you will never be able to win, it will wreck the NCC. In fact their atheltic director, I forget his name, recently stated that he thought NDSU would fail in its move. They did say they would do whats best for them, but I think they would have a lot of back tracking to do if they decided to move up.

NDSU and SDSU moved up without a conference comitment, but it seems there is a lot of opportunity out there. If your ready, and are going to move anyway, that issue loses a lot of impact. We made the move at the right time and the news from the BSC only creates a lot more interest and excitement.

"Never been healthier," but looking intensely at expansion. Silly, silly folk.

;D

Well, I know that Idaho had been looking to the WAC not long after the Big Sky was classified 1-AA, Boise State would always try to be on the same leash, Nevada had their own designs, and catfights have always danced around down south. The statement could very well be accurate, WHILE at the same time evoking the spectre that a Sac State may make a Great West/Big West move, or Portland State may run out of AD money altogether (somebody PLEASE prove to me the existence of the non-dysfunctional family, anywhere!), hence the continuing thoughts to expand.

They could also desire going to 10, but what do I know?

If I were Doug, I'd be aiming for Northern Colorado, no matter how many times they've already spurned me, and no matter if they're the 4th or 5th school (Air Force, Colorado College and/or Denver hockey) in Colorado. That's a market call, anyway.

Otherwise, USND-Hoople (if I got that right) is the 2nd choice. ;)

Somebody mentioned this on another board. If the BSC is looking for 2 it could be NDSU and SDSU. But it might be UNC and Southern Utah. If its Southern utah and UNC the Mid-Con is probably going to want to replace SUU and bring the conference to 12. That will open the door for NDSU and SDSU in the Mid-Con.

Looks like sound thinking to me. Either way the GWFC will take a hit. If the GWFC is going to stay in tact, NDSU, SDSU and UNC will all have to join the Mid-Con.

One of the legends of the Big Sky is an unnamed official of an unnamed school who said that Southern Utah would be admitted to the league over his (even "his" being something of an assumption) dead body.

I tend to finger an in-state rival known for having to stage a bake sale to keep from shutting down their athletic department. Gee, I hope that's obscure enough.

The Big Sky has had the opportunity, far more than once, to admit Southern Utah. There are reasons this hasn't happened.

http://www.collegesportingnews.com/article.asp?articleid=1688

Pounder:

Check out the above link. It is an old Q&A sesssion with Doug Fullerton, Big Sky Commish. He said Weber State (my guess at your reference) is not against SUU joining the Big Sky, but Montana apparently is. With Montana schools wanting the Dakota schools, and ISU, WSC, and NAU for SUU, maybe UNC will be the compromise candidate. I would love the Big Sky to take SUU, as then the Mid-Con would have to add a team or two. The Mid-Con could then complete their Southern strategy by adding Tx-A&M-Corpus Christi and UT-PanAmerican.

In another quote attributed to Doug Fullerton, he spells out in greater detail the schools under consideration.

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=65054

Fullerton said the league's eight university presidents will meet Aug. 9. Among the top priorities will be the issue of league expansion.

"We are conducting an internal evaluation of every school that is available ... And yes, that does include the Dakotas, yes that does include Northern Colorado, yes that does include Southern Utah – all the schools that are going to play I-AA," Fullerton said.

Another Fullerton quote from the Idaho State Journal is also interesting.

http://www.journalnet.com/articles/2004/07/20/sports/sports01.txt

"There's always been a group that's wanted to expand this league," he said. "That group is gaining a majority. As we grow, and as individual schools grow, there's a little uneasiness in maintaining those seven teams you play. I don't know which way it's going to end up."

Here are some highlights from today's Fargo paper.

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=65101§ion=Sports

NDSU's odds increase for Big Sky
By Jeff Kolpack, The Forum
Published Friday, July 23, 2004

North Dakota State is on the verge of making another run at membership in the Big Sky Conference. This time, the league may take NDSU more seriously.

An Aug. 9 meeting of the Big Sky Council of Presidents in Salt Lake City will be the second time in 18 months the group will hold a special session to discuss expansion.

A 2003 meeting in Salt Lake City was assembled at the request of Montana State president Geoffrey Gamble. This summit appears to have a more widespread appeal.

"I don't think there's any one reason or one person," said Dusty Clements, Big Sky assistant commissioner. "But things have finally shaken out west. The dominos have fallen and I think we all want to get on the same page."

The University of Idaho, a former Big Sky member, announced last month that it is bolting the Division I-A Sun Belt Conference for the I-A Western Athletic Conference.

Idaho was said to be a candidate to return to the I-AA Big Sky because of new Division I-A football attendance requirements. But those standards are being re-evaluated within the NCAA and may not come to fruition.

"My feeling all along was that if Idaho got into the WAC, that would push (the Big Sky) to figure something else out," said NDSU athletic director Gene Taylor. . . .

NDSU's momentum was spurred by comments made by Big Sky Commissioner Doug Fullerton at the league's annual meeting in Park City, Utah, earlier this week.

He said the league is conducting an internal evaluation of available schools that includes NDSU, South Dakota State, Southern Utah and Northern Colorado.

"I was literally taken aback by the strength of what he said," Taylor said. . . .

Clements said a special expansion meeting is necessary because there isn't enough time to address those issues at annual meetings.

The 2003 gathering did not result in any action. NDSU and SDSU were told the league had no interest in expanding east at the present time.

At eight teams, the Big Sky is on the lower end in Division I in terms of the number of members. Division I conferences require at least seven members in order to receive NCAA dispersal money. . . .

While instinct might make one think that 2 schools, the 2 Dakota universities, would be the best option, I could see a good fit by bringing in all 4.

The two Dakota schools would be idela travle partners.

Northern Colorado would give more access to the Denver market.

Southern Utah would give the Big Sky a school located right between Weber and No. Arizona.

You have to figure that with some creative scheduling, the league could easily reduce travel costs for all members for all sports.

an example...

North:
NDSU
SDSU
Northern Colorado
Montana St.
Montana
Eastern Washington

West:
Portland St.
Sacramento St.
Idaho St.
Weber St.
Southern Utah
No. Arizona




But sadly, while NDSU and SDSU have been making the biggest pushes for memebrship, I think a better fit would be a 2 team expansion of...




Eastern Washington
Portland St.
Sacramento St.
Idaho St.
Montana St.
Montana
Northern Colorado
Weber St.
Southern Utah
No. Arizona

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