Also, I am going to eventually calculate the populaton of the comined counties east of I-95 in eastern North Carolina to see how big ECU market is. There is also UNC Wilmington in that region, which is another one of those regional teams like App State, Western Carolina, and all the branch UNCs, and NC A & T. Its is a regional school, in a small metro market.

Sportsgeog said:

"But even if they do get it, its not much different than the Insight Bowl or the Continental Tire Bowl. The Liberty Bowl could become the BE vs. CUSA"

While true, the Liberty bowl has a better payout than the Insight or Tire bowl (1.2 mill vs. 750k). If the Gator bowl (at 1.9 mill) gets pulled the BE is going to need a spot for it's 2nd place team. I think it would be great if they could get the Liberty. None of the other bowls that compare (payout wise) to the Liberty would drop their affiliation for the BE (Big10, SEC, Big12), even if it was the 2nd place BE team.

I think if UMass was able to make the jump, they would be my top choice for the ninth team. The 10th team would come from the "hottest" team in CUSA that would be willing to jump - ECU, Memphis, UCF. Not much else out there that looks good to be honest.

I agree with others that have said TU missed their chance in the BE. The only way TU gets back in is if their FB team turns it around and quickly within the next 5 years. Without the promise of BE $$ (I think they got $1-2 mill from the conference?), I'm not sure how that is going to happen.

The BE 2nd Place team going to the Liberty to play the CUSA Champion or the MWC champion, with Memphis and/or UCF will make them seemingly drift into being, well, another CUSA. If the BE loses their BCS bid after 2010, the Liberty Bowl may be where they send the BE Champion. Didn't they have a tie-in before with the CUSA, in the very early days of the CUSA?

Better bring on the Big Apple Bowl. Or hang on dearly to that Gator Bowl.

sportsgeog, you must not focus on the Capital One bowl as the only benefit for BE having two Florida schools or primary reason for expanding with Central Fla.

There are many more bowl possiblities in Florida and the potential for gaining one or two new bowls would be greatly enhanced with two Florida schools.

Keep in mind that a Big East split would most likley leave Notre Dame behind and the Gator bowl as well.

The Tangerine, current Tampa New Years bowl, or a new BE bowl for both Orlando and Tampa could be created just like the Orange bowl is considering a second bowl for ACC members in Miami. The Gator bowl may consiser keeping the BE without Notre Dame with the potential of having one of those Florida schools filling up the stadium. This is what minor bowls are most about.

The NBE is going to be one of the strongest basketball conference in the nation with or without basketball schools so football will be of up most importance in the next few years.

Northeast schools do not travel very well for bowl games and having two Florida schools would improve the stability of minor bowls for the NBE. South Florida is already adding this benefit to the BE along with Louisville.

The other benefit for having two Florida schools in an all sports conference is travel partners. The Pac 10 is a great example of playing two teams in a one trip scenerio for bb and varsity sports.

The BE should already have Central Florida as a football only member. The only glitch in the last expansion exercises. Central Florida would have accepted football only membership prior to joining Conf USA and would have made a great 9 team league and provided balances schedules.

Just an observation . . .

2 of the BE schools that don't travel well are gone (BC & Temple - not that Temple ever had much to travel to). Trust me: UConn will travel well.

When this bowl was started a about 4 years ago, in the first year it had a Big East Tie-in. The BE lost it the second year to the Big 12. The ACC has been affiliated all 4 years. The only way the Big East would be reinvited back to this bowl is that either the ACC or the Big 12 leave, for a better bowl. I don't see that happening. The ACC currently has only 6 bowls, and they will be at 12 teams. They are going to want what the Big 10, Big 12, SEC, and Pac-10 have. 7 or 8 bowl tie-ins. They are not going to leave. The Big 12 will only go to another bowl in its News Years Day Bowl or higher pay-out. This is the Big 12th 7th Place Team Bowl. They are not giving it up, unless they created a new Bowl in Austin, TX which is not likely.




This is the same issue as the Capital One Bowl. These are both Big 10 and SEC slots. Neither of these conferences would leave and the Tampa Bowl (Outback) wouldn't ask them to leave. I could see one of them leaving if the Gator Bowl drops the BE and the Big 10 or SEC move over to the Gator Bowl. Then you may get the Big East competing with the Big 12 or the ACC for this spot.




Lets see, the Citrus Bowl stadium already hosts the Tangerine Bowl and the Capital One Bowl. So this would be an unprecendented 3rd Bowl in that Stadium. When would they play it, 2nd Saturday in December? Or a double header ala the old Oahu Bowl/Aloha Bowl failure of the late 90's?




Let's see, there are 28 current bowls, and last I heard the NCAA is discussing the certifying of a bowl possibilities in Seattle, Denver, Miami (which failed once already -- Micron PC/Blockbuster Bowl became the Tangerine Bowl and moved), as well as Indy. That would be 32 Bowls for 119 teams. More than 1/2 of the teams in bowls. Makes sense I guess? Why wouldn't they try to tie-in with the Indy Bowl if that happens with a MAC school, or the Mile-High Snow Bowl in Denver if that happens, or in Seattle if they bring that back. They could be the ACC's opponent in this new Miami bowl I guess.




Yep, Louisville and I can see USF as being not too bad with bringing in fans for a bowl game. We still need to wait an see on USF as they haven't been to a bowl yet.

But UCF? They have trouble traveling to Orlando. Look:

Average attendance for UCF:

1998: 22,651
1999: 21,922
2000: 27,279
2001: 19,793
2002: 21,972
2003: 24,315

Thats not a huge crowd. If a 7th or 8th place ACC team is available or a 8th place SEC team, I could see an open bowl seed going to those 2 conferences before the BE. If UCF was a member, these Florida Bowls wouldn't necessarily just go after the BE in lieu of an available ACC or SEC team, just because UCF is a member. Besides, how many times have they been bowl-eligible? Maybe a couple and they have yet to go to a bowl. They don't have a track record. This average home attendance would not help.




Yep that could be an advantage. But it also could be a disadvantage having two growing schools and growing 1-A teams relatively new in the 1-A business being relatively close to each other in a state of the sublime FSU, UFla, and Miami. A 5th school encroaching on the 4th school in relatively the same market is iffy.




Then why didn't they? They must have decided not to for a logical and reasonable reason. Maybe its because when you look at UCF's attendance and performance (save for a couple of winning seasons) and they must have saw that by bringing them in, and kicking Temple out, that they might be just interchanging Temple for another Temple.

I don't see UCF as a overwhelmingly great candidate. Temple is equally as good as a candidate as UCF.

You know that I think the NE footprint and focusing on "homegrown growth" is as advantageous as adding these southern schools and maybe more so. Because all your doing is becoming a southern conference, hidden below several football powerhouse giants. The Big Apple Bowl is a great strategy if it can be pulled off.

Temple should have been in the Big East for basketball along time ago. Villanova has been against that. If they FB schools split, then look for Temple to join them. Big East wants a Philadelphia team, and Villanova doesnt offer D1 football. But basketball is still the big sport in the northeast and Temple makes sense in that regard. Marshall would be the other choice for football reasons. And if they wanted a championship game for some more $$$ then add Army and Navy as FB only members since they all the BE schools traditonally.

Temple is out in 2004 for good.
Marshal is a JC with a 1A football team and a bad location.
There will not be a 12 team football league in the BE.

Tigersharktwo, you and I are in agreement these days and agreed the BE will never be a 12 team conference unless the NCAA/BCS makes it a manditory which does not seem likely. The BE may use the ACC as example to see if that conference is able to make the 12 team work. Everyone just assumes this will be succesful. I am concerned that a Miami/MD matchup in Charlotte would not fill the stadium. So lots of benefit for BE to keep an eye on ACC success rate with a football championship game.

Friarfan, I stand corrected on NE attendance as we do not know how well UConn fans will travel to bowl games. UConn is very impressive with ticket sales for regular season and would expect a very good showing in a bowl attendance.

sportsgeog, I would suggest you do a little more research on Tangerine bowl preference. The Tangerine folks were present for the BE football meetings last month in Rhode Island. Also present were the Orange, Sugar, Fiesta, Insight.Com, Motor City, Tire, and Gator bowls.

Once South Florida gets going as a BCS 1A football member and gains ground, the Outback Bowl will provide favortism to USF just like the Orange Bowl has help Maimi get to where it is today.

Regardless of how strong the SEC is, going to deep is not going to please both the Outback and Gator.

As for the Tagerine BE connection, the Blockbuster bowl as it was called was not affiliated with any conferences when first established. The Blockbuster bowl wanted to stage the championship of both the BE and ACC and both conferences did not want to be tied to one bowl for the champions. This may need some additional research as it been a long time since I lived in Miami at the time the Blockbuster bowl was established.

My opinion continues to favor Central Fla and possible Memphis to bring the conference to 10 should a split occur in 5 years.

I think if the BE is going to split it will take place in five years or the conference will remain with the 16 members as this format will be proven to work.

In five years, the BE football will have went through the 4 years of BCS agreement and if successful, this will probably pull the two apart as basketball is going to be a big challege to manage the 16 team alignment.

In five years, UMass will not be ready and Temple may have dropped football at that point.

The BE will look to becomming an "Eastern Seaboard" type conference similiar to how the ACC expanded with BC and wanted Syracuse. Adding Central Florida and possible Memphis or some other upstart in the Eastern Seaboard will be the preferred direction the conference will take.

Another point is having USF and CFU could eventually rival the ACC with Miami/FSU. USF is already having great requiting benefits and will only get better.

If a split is to occur an Eastern Seaboard footprint has much more benefits than a NE footprint.

I dont buy the argument that the BE would be moving into the shadow of other BCS conferences.

Lousiville is very much the equal to Kentucky and will probably exceed in football in that state.

Ohio is way to big to only have one BCS team when much less football interested Indiana has three.

Florida is a state similiar to Texas and California and needs more that 3 BCS teams.

Tennessee is basically UT and Vanderbilt is well they bring a good reputation to the SEC.

Tennessee could very well support Memphis as a BCS member. As a member of the BE, Memphis would bridge Kentucky, West Virginia, and Tennesse together. All three of these states are very similar in culture and really need a conference that unites this region. Adding Southern Ohio and western Pa just futher adds to this reagions stability.

Factor in Rutgers, Syracuse, UConn the remaining NE big time programs and you have a foot print that contains the Mississippi/Ohio Valley to NE. Not bad.

Then add two Florida schools and you have a footprint similar to the old proposed Eastern Seaboard that basically did what the ACC was attempting to do with expanding with BC and Syracuse.

Va Tech actually helped the BE as the conference can accompish the same type of region as the ACC by having a north to south type conference that stretches from NE to south Florida.

Sportsgeog said:

"The only way the Big East would be reinvited back to this bowl is that either the ACC or the Big 12 leave, for a better bowl. I don't see that happening"

--- I believe the last couple of years the Big12 rep only brought ~ 7k fans which of course the bowl execs don't want to see. In the next few years, maybe the BE will show that teams can travel well and will get the invite back, who knows, especially if the BE loses the Insight.com bowl.

Perhaps the BE can trade the Insight (BE 3 vs. Pac10 4) for the Tangerine bowl? Both pay 750 k I believe.

Unfortunately for the BE, out of the teams with some tradition (Pitt, SU, and WV), only WVU has a history of traveling well. Hopefully, Louisville and UConn (and a lesser extent RU) will prove the BE can travel well and keep the same lineup of bowls and perhaps snag another one.

The BE must WIN, WIN, WIN to maintain its bid. I feel that the BE will now always be considered the weaker cousin of the ACC (Like CUSA is to the SEC) unless they win some BCS and OOC games.

Wouldn't it be interesting if the BE champ beat the ACC champ in either the national title game or BCS game? ;D

SportsKC, I have been of the opinion for a long time that Temple would never be in the Big East. However, lately I have been having some second thoughts - only in the event of a split.

Looking at the history, I think that the Big East walked away from Temple at least partly because they didn't want "associate" members. They had brought the other part/time members into the fold & when UConn took them up on their offer for automatic membership if they upgraded, I think that they no longer saw any value in keeping Temple. The Villanova objection was real, but they only have one vote. More important, the Big East has a history of only one member per TV market (a precedent which they broke in new Jersey - but remember that they had wanted Rutgers from the very beginning of the conference).

In the event of a split, they would no longer have Villanova & they might want Temple for the Philly basketball market alone. Temple would fit the all-sports model, which would obviously be the reasonh for the split.

Friar and SportsKC -

I don't think TU will be considered unless the administration gets serious about committing to FB.

TUs record in the BE:

28-117 since joining the Big East,

6-78 vs teams in the BE not named Rutgers.

By that definition, RU should have been kicked out. too However, TU was only an associated member, which made it easier.

It seems that TUs administration is NOT serious about their committment to FB. Hopefully, with the games now at the Linc (15 year lease) they will get more of a committment to other aspects of FB.

If they turn it around and the BE breaks up, I think they will get serious consideration.

*Post 1 of 3*




Okay, so they were. Its the Tangerine Bowl, not the Capital One Bowl, nor the Outback/Tampa Bowl. They could end up with a bid there. The Big East currently has 4 Bowl Tie-ins. They are not going to get but one more. They could also get rotated out of the Insight and Continental Tire Bowl. The Insight I see is more likely. They could get rotated into the Motor City Bowl. Which is not an improvement. If the Big 10 ends up somewhere else. I don't see a lot of big name bowls coming Big East's way because of a Florida team. The Big East, SEC, ACC, Big 12, and Pac 10 are going to be ahead in the pecking order for Bowls. I don't see the Big East getting less than 5 tie-ins, as long as they have 8 members. But UCF, and for that matter (until USF proves it also), are not going to be WOWing anyone right now. Look at USF's average attendance:

1998: 27,143 (1-AA)
1999: 25,053 (1-AA)
2000: 26,414 (1-AA)
2001: 25,820 (1-A)
2002: 26,304 (1-A)
2003: 30,512 (1-A)

They show some improvement there in 2003. They had two good years the last 2 years, but still no bowl yet. Maybe it was because these attendance averages are just not quite there yet to compell a bowl to invite them. I can see them improving, but they are not WOWing-like. But they are certainly not like UCF, that's for sure.




The Insight and Gator are two bowls that they already have a tie-in to. Those two bowls, along with the Motor City Bowl, could also be present at other Conference meetings. Again the Motor City Bowl would not really be much of an improvement over the lost San Francisco Bowl tie-in that the BE did have.

The Orange, Sugar, and Fiesta are BCS bowls. They would talk to all the BCS leagues, and perhaps some non-BCS leagues, like the MWC and CUSA. Why wasn't the Cotton Bowl there, or met with the BE? They have a contingent tie-in with the Cotton Bowl if the SEC doesn't get invited. Are they still interested in the BE as a contingent tie-in?




The history of Miami is way different than what could be for USF. Miami prior to 1983 was really not much of anything. The 1984 Orange Bowl against Nebraska was their first appearance in their home town bowl since 1951. At that time the only tie-in to the Orange Bowl was the Big 8 Champion, which it had been on and off between 1960 and 1975. Then the Big 8 was a constant tie-in from 1975 to 1995. The other seed was an at-large. This allowed independent teams such as Miami and Florida State to go to the home town/close-by Orange Bowl many times. But Miami didn't get back into the Orange Bowl until they were #5 in the nation and were playing for a National Championship in the very bowl that invited them. They upset Nebraska that night and the rest was history. If, at that time the Orange Bowl was like the Rose Bowl and the Big 8 Champion played the ACC Champion every year, then Miami and perhaps even FSU wouldn't be where they are today.

The Big 10/SEC tie-ins for the Outback Bowl date back to 1996, so this is their 10th year running. I can tell you being from Ann Arbor and hearing about going to the Outback or the Capital One Bowls (Florida Citrus), that Michigan fans don't get as excited as much as a Rose Bowl, but they do get excited quite a bit over these two bowls. They always call them a “nice bowl to go to“. Their tie-ins with the SEC in these two bowls are beginning to take on somewhat of an expectation and tradition. Not like the Rose Bowl, but its where they look to duo with their SEC counterparts. I don't have attendance records from these 2 bowls since the Big 10 and SEC have been tied to them, but I doubt there has been a slouch off, and these two bowls are not going to give them up. They probably would hope for U Florida vs a Big 10 team over USF. And why shouldn't they.? UFla averages 90,000 at their games, every Big 10 team averages 60,000+ except two. There's no incentive to drop them for USF, which is right now at 30,000. But beyond that, until USF positions itself like Miami did in 1983, where the timing was right and there was an at-large opportunity, this will not happen. It would have to be that USF goes to a BCS game and wins a National Championship and the BE improves its attendance conference-wide and as well as get some more powers in their league before these 2 bowls in Tampa and Orlando would even consider dropping the Big 10 for the BE.




Interesting history. I know the Big 10 was tied to that bowl for awhile too, along with the ACC. I remember Colorado going to it in the early 90's. Did the BE ever play in this bowl? Didn't Alabama play in it one year also?




See the attendance above for UCF^. Memphis attendance was the following over the last 6 years:

1998: 23,479
1999: 26,933
2000: 30,287
2001: 25,446
2002: 28,394
2003: 38,668

While the last year looks promising, the previous 5 aren’t that much different than most non-BCS teams. One game that really boosted their attendance last year was that they played Ole Miss at home and had 51,000 fans. This was the first time in awhile that both Memphis and Ole Miss were good, and it attracted fans from both schools, including neighboring fans south of the state line. I know they have Miss State on their schedule this year. In 2002 they were also on the schedule at only 28,000 fans were there. But still they have some to prove on attendance. There market for sure at 1.5 million at the most and being either the 1st or the 2nd Team in that 1.5 million market isn’t really any different than any other CUSA team. It is a shadowed team in a shadowed conference. No urban grants, except for maybe Louisville, are a Michigan State-like, Purdue-like, Mississippi State-like, Oklahoma State-like school. I don’t care what Urban Grant it is. The only really true exceptions here are Pitt, UCLA, and only Louisville comes close of 2004 non-BCS teams. U Tennessee is big throughout the state. 1.5 million is not much better than the 900,000 in the West Virginia-Marshall market. Its not a big-WOW for what a BE or a BCS league needs. One of the arguments you here about the BE retaining their BCS seed is their market. They really don’t pick up much with western Tennessee and Memphis. Its not a NE team.

*Cont. on Post 2 of 3*

*Post 2 of 3*




What if the BE-16 is the most dominating bball league, getting 8 teams in the NCAA and the teams are consistently evenly split between fball and bball teams? Even if they continue to keep their BCS seed, why would they break up such a fine bball league, if that was their intentions with adding Marquette and DePaul. If the bball league isn’t too good and the greatness tilts to one side of the fball/bball teams, then maybe, but I don’t think they will necessarily break up a successful bball conference if they retain their BCS league. If neither are true, then maybe. If the bball is successful and the BE loses their BCS, I still don’t see them being compelled to break up so that can add some more potential luke-well teams from the CUSA.




I got news for you. Memphis is not the Eastern Seaboard. In fact the NBA sees the Memphis Grizzlies as a Western Team. If Memphis was in Arkansas where West Memphis is located, it could almost be called West, sorta like St. Louis being called the Gateway to the West. UCincy, and U Louisville are not Eastern Seaboard either. Anything completely west of the Appallachians and the Colonial States+Florida is not Eastern Seaboard. Memphis, Louisville,.and Cincinnati are known like all things else in the middle -- “Fly-over country”. If you get Memphis, why stop there. Why not get Tulsa? Why not get SMU? Why not get UTEP? New Mexico State? I still think Hawaii makes more sense then Memphis for the BE, if it continues to drift into the wild-wild west. Can you say WAC-16, then Mountain West breakaway, anyone?

UMass would be an option for a football-only membership if the BE-16 doesn’t split in 2010.They could begin to plan to move them up at that time for affiliate membership in 2015, in case the BE-16 does split in 2015. If not they could be an affiliate member and retain their membership in the A-10 for other sports.

I still don’t understand why some of the BE fans have such contempt and feeling of betrayal for Temple. I can understand Miami, Va Tech, and BC, but why do some BE fans have such utter disdain for Temple. The Big 12 doesn’t have this for Baylor. The Big 10 doesn’t have this for Indiana or Northwestern. The SEC doesn’t have this for Vanderbilt. What is the big deal? How did Temple betray the BE and why do some of you have contempt for this school? I think a lot of what FriarFan makes a lot of sense. Maybe the BE officials had pressure to dump affiliate members, but now it sounds like they would like one again. To me it all comes off as some misguided, misjudged, and unneeded Groupthink. They may come back into the fold in 5 years too. There average attendance isn’t much different than most of the teams that people here talk about as future BE members. Lets look:

1998: 15,127
1999: 20,771
2000: 18,612
2001: 18,440
2002: 19,077
2003: 24,137

Yes, there not spectacular, but neither is UCF. UCF doesn’t go much above this. Temple even went up by 5,000+ last season. If they wouldn’t have this dark cloud of utter contempt thrown on them by BE fans and have such discouragement, maybe they might get better recruits and more attendance. Its like the BE placed some of the Temple stigma on them. Last year they only had 1 win and they had 5,000 more people on average. My personal feeling is I hold Groupthink in contempt. I really hate that way of thinking.

The point is if the BE does choose a new member and they take on the characteristics that Temple has, people outside the conference are going go, “well, why didn’t they just keep Temple?”




USF and UCF don’t have the “at-large” access that Miami and FSU had when they emerged in the early 80’s. The only way they get to that magnitude is that they go to a BCS bowl or another somewhat major bowl. For USF that’s the Gator. For UCF, well it really isn’t anything more than a few CUSA championships and some Liberty Bowl appearances. Both have to improve attendance quite a bit, and they still are going to take 4th and 5th fiddle from being in the UF-FSU-Miami sublime status. They really are still CUSA teams . I can see USF, but UCF really needs for a lot to happen. Nonetheless, it won’t be like Miami/FSU. That’s a stretch. More like Houston/TCU is more like it, or Utah/BYU is a bit of a stretch. A 5th BCS team 85 miles from the 4th BCS team with heavy, heavy followings for UFla, FSU and Miami is too much. Florida has 17 million people. California has 35 million people. You can call all 4 Pac 10 schools formidable in that state plus Fresno, and sometimes occassionally SDSU. But CA is twice the size of FL. Texas has 4 Big 12 teams with Baylor down at the moment. TCU is a power outside of the 4 Big 12, plus North Texas is doing okay. Houston has been back up lately but not consistent yet. Texas is a football crazy state. So with 4 solid teams and 22 million, it is bigger than FL. To me USF can fit. UCF can not.




Again, Memphis, Louisville, and UCincy is not the Eastern Seaboard. IMO, Tulane is a better pick than Memphis, as its just as much non-eastern seaboard. But at least Tulane is a hell of a lot better academic school and the NOLA market is better than Memphis. The Memphis market is not growing, and its not that much better than Marshall. It really should be with the old SWC teams, and if the CUSA proves itself to be a BCS auto conference in 2010, Memphis may want to stick with them. Again, there is no history of a Urban Grant serving as a Mississippi State-like, Oklahoma State-like, North Carolina State-like team. They don’t get statewide following/support overlays. They don’t have fans in Bristol, Cleveland, Columbia, Nashville, Chattanooga, or Clarksville. Western TN is not growing except around Memphis, and even then they have to compete with fans for U Tenn, Ole Miss, Ark State, Miss State, U Ark, and Vandy. Tennessee is not big enough to have 3 BCS teams. The smallest state with more than 3 BCS teams is Indiana with 6 million, and thats a fluke with having a Norte Dame. Memphis is no Norte Dame, Purdue or even Indiana.




I do, if it continues to pick up CUSA teams where major major powerhouses exist.

*Cont. on Post 3 of 3*

*Post 3 of 3*




Louisville is an exception. It is true they are the better football team in KY, but they still don’t get what UK gets. If they expand their stadium, maybe, but even anecdotal evidence suggests that Kentucky still goes statewide, and even if Louisville picks up following in that state, you still may not see many fans of Louisville in places like Corbin, Ashland, Paducah, London, or Covington. The school has a metropolitan focus and purpose. People in the rural areas of any state don’t identify with a team with a city name and a metro purpose and mission compared to a Land Grant historical flagship like U Kentucky. Louisville does good for an urban grant school in KY, better than almost any other school like it except UCLA and Pitt. In all other cases, the Urban Grants’ followings are near the City or metro area. They are regional.




Same as above, only worse. UCincy IS NOT an equivalent to an “University of Ohio”. Lets look at their attendance:

1998: 24,135
1999: 19,784
2000: 20,952
2001: 21,836
2002: 28,071
2003: 21,961

Not too great, in fact not much different than Temple. 2002 was somewhat of a good year though. The best that UCincy offers is bball and a the best academic fit of the 3 new schools and the best academically near th BE except Miami U of Ohio.




See above^




Tennessee has 5.7 million people, a little smaller than Indiana. Indiana has 3 BCS teams. Tennessee is a power, and has statewide following. No one hardly east of the Tennessee River (the part of it located north of the Mississippi/Alabama/Tennessee stateline meeting, and the Land Between the Lakes at the Kentucky/Tennessee Border) is going to root for Memphis. Memphis has no meaning hardly to people in Johnson City, Chattanooga, Nashville, Cleveland, Lynchburg, Clarksville, Cookeville, Columbia, etc. Memphis is a regional team for Western TN, and has either 1st or 2nd Noteriety in that western 1/3 of the state -- which has only 1.5 million people. That’s about the size of Idaho, and smaller than the state of West Virginia. Its not a major state market. The geography of Tennessee doesn’t allow for the Memphis media to project Memphis teams 200 to 500 miles to the east, because Nashville, Knoxville, Chattanooga, and other teams get promoted. Memphis is an afterthought that is located where the state meets Arkansas and Mississippi. That doesn’t mean much to someone in TN near the NC, Virginia or Georgia boundaries.




Yes they are all similar in culture. TN and KY are somewhat midwestern while being predominantly southern. The mid-major/non-football Ohio Valley Conference crosses the Ohio River and goes into the southern Midwest states while also being in KY and TN. But KY and TN are not Northeast states and nor are they Near-Northeast states. UCincy works because the City of Cincinnati (its history and urban rank historically) has a relationship with the City of Pittsburgh (history and urban rank hisotrically), and Louisville works, because it is only 100 miles down the road from Cincy. Memphis is another 400 miles down the road from Louisville and is near both the Mississippi Delta region and the Ozarks. This is too-Southwesternish-like and really belongs with the old SWC teams, Tulsa included. Memphis vs. Rutgers as a conference game sounds completely weird. The institutions don't relate at all, nor does it produce a compelling rivalry or interesting series. Louisville works barely. But Memphis, no. Nor does UConn vs. Memphis. This Ohio Valley wing works, but it shouldn’t become the Conference character. It shouldn’t drift any further west than Louisville. Its just going too deep into SEC country.




No. Its bad. I don’t see many people thinking of the BE as a household name and identity as Memphis vs. UConn or Memphis vs. Rutgers, or even Memphis vs. Syracuse.




USF is barely south of the Deep South line of Florida. I once heard that Inverness, FL is the most southern Deep South city in Florida, and that Tampa is just barely south of that. UCF is really close to that line, an more north on I-4 and they are on the border of the Deep South North region of Florida. Tampa is barely out of the Deep South and is more like Miami than Orlando. Neither one of these schools are going to get that Miami-like NE-like identity that can connect them to the NE like Miami does. Orlando is really on the cusp of the Deep South and it playing games vs. Rutgers or UConn or even Syracuse as a conference mate is really odd. UCF is also a terrible institutional fit when compared to Rutgers, UConn, Syracuse, and even Pitt. Memphis is also a terrible institutional fit. UCF vs Rutgers or UConn is not interesting.




Virginia is a Near Northeast like state. A lot of people talk of the eastern urban coast They call it the Bos-Wash Megalopolis. This continuous urbanized area stretches generally from the Boston metro area to the Washington, DC metro area, but technically, geographers and others identify it from Portland, ME to Richmond, VA and perhaps vearing east to the Norfolk/Va Beach metro area. Virginia is a southern state, but it fits with New York State and Pennsylvania and even New England a hell of a lot better than western TN, and a team border Mississippi, Arkansas, the Ozarks, and the Mississippi Delta region. That is not NE. Robert Johnson or Muddy Waters playing old Country Blues in nearby Clarksdale is not the NE footprint. Actually that Mississippi Delta image of the roots of Blues does fit with Memphis, New Orleans, St. Louis and Chicago, but not Hartford, CT. Also Va Tech indeed had a statewide following as its purpose and history and academic noteriety an institutional fit, fit the BE, including its optimal near-NE location. Memphis is not THIS. Memphis is NOT VA TECH.

Again what do more CUSA teams offer, but to be buried further into SEC, ACC, and Big 10 country, and not much more than Temple, really. To me, by taking more of these teams, the BE is really furthering an emulation of the CUSA, and taking away its household name and image --> and what happens when you emulate something? You become the very same thing as the thing you are emulating.

Rutgers vs. Memphis as a conference game? What conference is that?

*End this round of posts*