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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:36 pm 
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no, actually more stupid than BC being in the ACC - what the heck is a team from South Florida doing in the same conference as Syracuse NY? - South Florida and Central Florida ought to be in the Sunbelt or at least the CUSA - Arkansan


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 4:19 pm 
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After the treacherous bc move to the acc SFla was a good move in many ways for the BE.They already have top 40 recruiting class in a major metro area.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 6:09 pm 
Apparently, the BE thought USF would renew their "Florida" presence, be valuable in securing/solidfying a Florida bowl, and is a school with a bright future.
BC in the ACC, TCU in the MWC, UTEP in C-USA, and UCF in the BE "fit" with their new, respective conferences except for geography/close proximity to rivals. On the other hand, the intent of conferences expanding their reach/footprint and finding a new market give certain schools a particular appeal. And, these schools will pass up or exit a closer conference, and are willing to travel much greater distances if they think they will find greener pastures.
USF may one day end up being back in a more southern-type conference. To me, it would have been nice for BC to have stayed in the BE, and the ACC found another for #12.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 7:40 pm 
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Re: South Florida in the Big East is as stupid as.
« Reply #4 on 9/5/2004 at 8:06pm »
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To me, it would have been nice for BC to have stayed in the BE, and the ACC found another for #12.


The ACC's choices were for market, performance on the field, other sports, following and academics. This made the following as the most likely candidates for the ACC for their #12 member:

Norte Dame
Boston College
Syracuse
Florida
South Carolina
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
UConn

Outside of those choices, no one else would have likely been considered because of academics and market were lacking too much.

As for UCF going into the BE. Taking too many CUSA teams all at once going into the BE makes that conference a defacto CUSA, and seemingly emulating a mid-major conference. The one thing to keep in mind is that any future members to the BE need to improve and/or reinforce the conference's BCS auto-bid chances. This is according to recent reports on the criteria and standards that designates what a BCS auto-bid qualifying conference is, that are being discussed by the BCS conferences and the BCS coalition conferences. The talk is all conferences, including all current BCS conferences have to earn their auto bid over a 4 year period. They are talking about overall quality of the conference, including the performance on the field of all the conference members as well as TV market and attendance. UCF's attendance has been just above Temple recently (20K to 27K), and had a losing season last year.

Last edited by yungwun on Sun Sep 05, 2004 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 2:22 pm 
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Those teams may have been the ACC choice, however, was the ACC the choice of those teams.

Florida - yea right the SEC is an always will be superior to the ACC. Good for CBS and bad for ABC and ESPN

South Carolina - bad blood comes to mind!

Notre Dame - how come no one accepts when Notre Dame says no means no including ACC membership.

UConn - law suite comes to mind!

Pittsburgh - maybe the Big 10 would have been a nice option , however, Pitt is committed to the NBE

Basically Boston College was the only available team willing to go to the ACC on the second round of expansion from a current BCS conference.

Since this is a South Florida to BE, why is the ACC brought into this argument.

When South Florida is at the same level as Miami and Florida State in few years, you will have your answer on how stupid the idea was.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 2:30 pm 
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Quote:
Those teams may have been the ACC choice, however, was the ACC the choice of those teams.

Florida - yea right the SEC is an always will be superior to the ACC. Good for CBS and bad for ABC and ESPN

South Carolina - bad blood comes to mind!

Notre Dame - how come no one accepts when Notre Dame says no means no including ACC membership.

UConn - law suite comes to mind!

Pittsburgh - maybe the Big 10 would have been a nice option , however, Pitt is committed to the NBE

Basically Boston College was the only available team willing to go to the ACC on the second round of expansion from a current BCS conference.

Since this is a South Florida to BE, why is the ACC brought into this argument.

When South Florida is at the same level as Miami and Florida State in few years, you will have your answer on how stupid the idea was.


That might be true on which conferences they would like to affiliate with, but the ACC would not have gone for teams outside of these that are listed above^. They wouldn't have taken USF, UCF, ECU, WVU, UAB or Louisville. Those mentioned above would have the interest of the ACC, not the ones I just listed.

I guess we talk about BE and ACC as their footprints seem to intertwine with each other.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 2:44 pm 
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Actually any of the BE teams would have jumped to get in the ACC. Miami and VT had been wanting in the ACC for a long time. The rest of the BE probably would have rather been in the BE (maybe even BC), but financially with Miami gone, they would not have thought twice if the ACC invited them. I think its pretty well established that SU preferred the BE, but they were ready to go when the ACC almost invited them.

As for USF, time will tell. I suspect they will become another Iowa St. or Texas Tech. Solid, but well behind the leader in their state. But you could be right. They have a good young coach and are in an area with a lot of talent. However, they could also become a Rutgers or Indiana in football. In Texas, it seems in the last couple of years, the Big 12 gets mostly who it wants and then other schools in and out of state get the rest. A lot of schools recruit Florida.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 2:48 pm 
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Of course, the BE added USF because they are thinking like you Lash. They publically said they were looking for the next "Virginia Tech." There clearly is the potential for USF, UL and UC (in about that order of liklihood IMO) of becoming a regular in the top 25.

Personally, I don't expect any of them to be there any more than Boston College has the last 15 years. But each does have some good points that give them the potential.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 2:52 pm 
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I mean, Mark Dantonio was hired when UC was looking for a coach to take them to the Fiesta Bowl...


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 7:04 pm 
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Bullet, Boston College was always in the Big East for the Boston Market and likewise for the ACC. Athletics never had anything to do with BC in either conference.

South Florida is in the Big East for several reasons.

A market to replace Boston of the same size.

A Florida connection for football.

A sunny place to go play some winter basketball.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 7:29 pm 

Quote:
Those teams may have been the ACC choice, however, was the ACC the choice of those teams.

Florida - yea right the SEC is an always will be superior to the ACC. Good for CBS and bad for ABC and ESPN

South Carolina - bad blood comes to mind!

Notre Dame - how come no one accepts when Notre Dame says no means no including ACC membership.

UConn - law suite comes to mind!

Pittsburgh - maybe the Big 10 would have been a nice option , however, Pitt is committed to the NBE

Basically Boston College was the only available team willing to go to the ACC on the second round of expansion from a current BCS conference.

Since this is a South Florida to BE, why is the ACC brought into this argument.

When South Florida is at the same level as Miami and Florida State in few years, you will have your answer on how stupid the idea was.


I don't know who in the ACC office distributed a selection list, if that is indeed so, but Lash, you are correct.

South Carolina, a charter ACC member, exited the conference years ago. As much as Georgia, Florida, and Tennessee make it tough for them in the SEC-East, going back to the ACC was not a consideration for the Gamethingys. Those bad feelings will last for decades.

You are correct, Lash, on Florida, Notre Dame, and UCONN also.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 7:53 pm 
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Quote:


A market to replace Boston of the same size.



South Florida is in the Tampa-St. Pete metro area, and has 2.4 million people that shares its market with Florida, FSU and maybe Miami.

Boston College is the only team in a metro area of 5.7 million people.

If you expanded the USF market to say the I-4 corridor, then you would get ~4.9 million people. This includes Orlando and UCF. So you would have 4 to 5 teams (UF, FSU, USF, UCF, and Miami) competing and retaining fans in this 4.9 million market, while Boston College is the only team in a market of 5.7 million people.

Boston is the larger market by far. I am not arguing this because I like the ACC better, I am making this point because I know that Boston is a larger market. Its one of the top 10 TV markets. Tampa-St. Pete is not, even if Orlando and Daytona Beach, and Lakeland, and Sarasota are thrown in.


Last edited by sportsgeog on Mon Sep 06, 2004 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 9:32 pm 
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Sportgeog, since you like to crunch numbers, the Big East does not limit the conference to the Tampa market exposure. With the Sunshine network, the Big East gets to partipate in the entire state of Florida market.

How does Florida population compare to Massachussetts? Does Mass have a state TV network. If so, is anyone watching college football?

You will eventually have to face the fact that college football is much more popular in the south and has more fans and more tv viewers.

South Florida was an excellent choice for Big East expansion and so was Miami until the ACC came calling.



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 9:56 pm 
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Sportgeog, since you like to crunch numbers, the Big East does not limit the conference to the Tampa market exposure. With the Sunshine network, the Big East gets to partipate in the entire state of Florida market.


Yes, but you already have UFla, FSU, and Miami clicking on heavy followings. A TV Network may show a team statewide, but its not on the level of the Big 3, and those 3 have a big 25 to 30 year lead in following and establishment in the state. People in Miami-Ft. Lauderdale are going to follow Miami 1st, then UFla and FSU much more. You'll have some following for FAU and FIU there too. That's a lot of choices to follow before USF gets a share of that market. Its most likely pretty small. Again, people are going to follow a team if it means something to them.

The Tampa-St. Pete and the remaining I-4 corridor I've already explained. Many people in that market most likely follow UFla and FSU, some with Miami, and USF would be big there, and so would UCF in the Orlando area.

In Jacksonville, you probably have heavy followings for UFla and FSU. In the Panhandle, again heavy heavy followings for UFla and FSU. In the Ft Myers and Punta Gorda areas and SW Fla, it would be a mix of Miami, UFla, FSU, and some minor followings for USF, FAU, and FIU. Again, its what the university means to them and how fans identify with the team. The flagships go statewide in all the markets. They have won way too many conference championships, Heisman Trophies and National Championships not to have heavy statewide followings. Miami, same thing, only heavy heavy following in all of southern Florida and south of I-4. There are too many teams with so many athletic accolades for USF to be on the same level and pentrate meaning statewide. Yes football is popular in the south. But a statewide and popular teams like the sublime UFla, FSU and Miami are way out a ahead, and the other teams will be in their shadows. Tampa-St. Pete and the I-4 Corridor is where you will find most of USF's following. Its a regional team, that can be shown on a statewide network, but its hard to see them being popular in Pensacola, Jacksonville, Ft. Lauderdale, and Key West, because UFla, FSU and Miami, with all their National Championships, Conference Championships and Heisman Trophies, its hard to see. Pluse throw in these teams too: Miami Dolphins, Florida Marlins, Miami Heat, Florida Panthers, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Tampa Bay Devil Rays, Tampa Bay Lightning, Orlando Magic, and the Jacksonville Jaguars, and you have a lot of sports teams to compete with to rise above and have a statewide following. So, that's why I conclude they are a regional team in Tampa and maybe the I-4 Corridor and the SW Florida Gulf Coast, but they have the Big 3 as competitors in all these areas that waters down their following.

Boston has 1 college team. The NE may not be into it as much, but they are the only team, therefore Boston metro , with 5.7 million people and one of the Top 10 media markets is in a bigger market than USF, even with the Boston Red Sox, Boston Bruins, New England Patriots, and the Boston Celtics thrown in. They are still one team with 4 pro sports teams. Tampa has 3 sports teams, plus 4 in Miami, 1 in Orlando, and 1 in Jacksonville, plus the sublime Big 3: UFla, FSU, and U Miami competing with them and other small and regional followings for UCF, FAU, and FIU.


Quote:
South Florida was an excellent choice for Big East expansion and so was Miami until the ACC came calling.


I agree.


Last edited by sportsgeog on Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:29 pm 
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If all we are talking about is markets, then what the heck, why not have San Diego State and Houston in the Big East too? - they would bring big markets to the conference - if geography doesn't matter, then what the heck? - I guess I am really naive, but I thought the whole idea behind conference alignments was to band together schools in a similar locale - guess I am wrong - Arkansan


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