Basically a split is going to happen. And the new BE wants to expand for football purposes it should do this:

They just need to add Marshall and Temple for all sports. Marshall helps the football, Temple helps the bb. They even each other out. It would be a good move. Then add Army and Navy as football only. They would be great moves for the BE. And you know they would join the BE.

Split into 2 divisions for football:
East
Army
UConn
Navy
Rutgers
Syracuse
Temple

West
Cincinnati
Louisville
Marshall
South Florida
Pittsburgh
West Virginia

Lash, my model would be similar to SportsKC's suggestion above; however, I would lean more towards East Carolina rather than Marshall, and view ECU would have more (comparative) appeal to the current BE fb members. Of course ECU no longer has the VPI advocate from the BE. Other factors are contingent. No one knows exactly how Temple's future will unfold, and Army and Navy though offering traditional fb appeal, may not have competitive enough bb for "all-sports". Will new eastern fb 1-A's emerge in a couple of years? Delaware? UMASS? William & Mary? GA Southern? Maybe five years from now it will become more clear.

A 12 team "all sports" conference of "northeastern teams" in one division, and another of "central/gulf south" in another division, will appear just what C-USA's history has been: marriages of convenience. The design in itself is inviting a further split when the southern flank thinks it needs to add Houston, N. Texas, La Tech or whomever. Two very distinct footprints--- future split, when? 2010, 2012?

There are certain C-USA teams that may indeed want to stay C-USA, Memphis could be included. This hinges of the BCS system and future revisions. There is no suggestion that a NBE lose its BCS access and replaced by another conference. Nor is it suggested the BE be diminished as part of the BCS no more so than the other current BCS automatic conference representatives. However, if conferences such as the MWC, WAC, and C-USA get their superior teams into the system in a reasonable manner, jumping conferences may become a more pondering and studied matter. Even for the biggest of the richest schools, travel issues and having natural rivals remain concerns.
I concur that a new BE fb contigent that has split from those bb schools, would be wise to expand, and perhaps to twelve. Obviously, the northeast and schools such as Syracuse, WVU, Pitt, UCONN, etc. need to be BCS contenders through the prime mechanism.

While the BE is currently at only "8", compared to BCS conference brethern who are at 12, 12, 12, 11, and 10; then, the BE, fairly or not, is going to receive criticism regarding whether their representative is deserving, i. e. Pittsburgh this year. If Notre Dame suddenly agreed to play BE fb, all would be dandy, and the BE would be set for years. That is not going to happen. Therefore, I also expect a few years from now, the fb BE part ways from the urban, Catholic bb schools.

DogsNC@cks, I agree with you on East Carolina over Marshall for Big East membership. If Marshall could of slipped into a BCS bowl during its stronger years of football may have helped with consideration for future membership, however, assumming WVU gets most of the support in that state and Marshall would have to bring a lot to the table. With football slipping so does any consideration for Marshall would be my opinion. A Marshall/WVU football match up in conference play could eventually bring some national interest. Marshall is just not very good in varsity sports and does not bring any new markets. The school does support football which is a good benefit.

I dont buy the argument that expanding with Conf USA schools would make the Big East another version of Conf USA. For starters the current Conf USA is not a bad football conference and Louisville finished in the top ten. Maybe the expansion of Big East schools made the ACC another version of the Big East. Not bad since Va Tech finished in the top 10 as well and represented the conference in the BCS. Just because a conference does not have BCS membership should be no reflection on the teams that make up that conference.

This year I am being decisive on Big East expansion regardless if the Big East leadership is doing the same.

I dont like Army/Navy for football only.

I dont like football only schools period.

I dont like any special treatment provided to Notre Dame for any partial membership.

I dont like 16 basketball teams that do not play each other at least once in basketball per year similiar to other BCS conferences. At minimum there should be two divisons one for football schools and one for basketball schools. Otherwise, there is simply too many teams.

I dont like expanding with additional eastern teams to try an capture an exclusive eastern footprint opportunity that was lost with Penn State joined the Big 10 and really wanted Big East membership at that time.
UMass cant gets its act together on football support and BC is joining the powerful ACC which should dominate that state. Temple is a lost cause with football support. Its doughtful Delaware could upgrade in five years which is probably when a split will occur.

Besides the Big East already has the nucleas of a strong all sports north division with Syracuse, UConn, Rutgers, Pitt, WV and one more eastern team or move Cincinnati to that division. Actually Cincinnati basketbal strength may offset the lose of old original BE basketball rivalries. Syracuse would get a round robin basketball series with Cincinnati each year to off set the lose of conference games with St Johns and Georgetown. Both could remain on the schedule as OOC games.

What I think the Big East football schools should be doing is exploring the options of a potentail split in five years and not getting blind sided and rushed into expansion that occured last year. The ACC probably spent several years planning its expansion to 12.

Memphis is ready to jump ship right now so dont think the school is happy with the new alignment. Besides Memphis has always been jumping and bailing on conferences going back to the Metro and Great Midwest. This could actually be a negative trait.

Back to decisive moves. A 12 team Big East conference would actually be better for a north and south split and would not be similiar to the new Conf USA that spreads from eastern Carolina to west Texas. Thats almost in Phoenix territory. It would certainly be no different than Boston College in the ACC that is not close to the nearest border of Maryland. Or for that matter, Penn State playing in a conference with Minneosta and Iowa or Iowa state playing in a Conference with Texas teams.

It makes sense because of the two six team divisions that basically are two conference in one.

Since there are no good canidates remaining in the east for all sports and no MAC team really supports the all sports conference theory especially football, the alternative is expanding south where most of the bowls are located makes good planning sense.

If I were the Big East football schools would not necessarily wait for five years to start the planning on football expansion that will most likely take place.

Any combination of the following teams could work Memphis, Southern Miss, East Carolina, UAB, UCF, Tulane, Marshall

My 12 team conference proposal is not to get the made for TV championship game similiar to why the ACC and new Conf USA expanded to 12, it is to help secure what is left of the eastern college all sports footprint.

Good points, Lash.
East Carolina and Southern Miss appear to have loyal fb following. I don't know the Memphis attendance figures since they have had a couple of good seasons, but the days when I was in Mississippi, they were not an impressive draw. I am sure someone will read this and provide them.
UAB and Memphis have had some real bb success. UAB has been having less than desirable attendance figures in fb. 'Bama and Tuscaloosa are just too close, it seems, for UAB to "break out".
Tulane is an attractive private school in New Orleans; but we know their recent history in pondering whether or not to maintain 1-A fb. They have re-committed to it.
While ECU and USM are viewed as fb schools, there is certainly potential at both places for bb. Every so often, one or the other delivers some noise.
How some or all of these schools would blend into an expanded eastern based conference depends on a lot of developments and what options are available. Obviously, East Carolina, geographically, would have a closer identity to a eastern-based conference sector.
In C-USA, one sees an embracement of segments of the old Southwest, and vision seems to be that Memphis, Southern Miss, and Tulane see their future being associated with Houston, Rice, SMU, and Tulsa.

I agree, schools such as UTEP, BC, South Florida, and particularly LA Tech, are in conferences removed from close-by rivals. However, since most of these changes were recent, it must be that travel issues are less of a concern than some of us may think. Of course, LA Tech did want that 12th C-USA spot.

Here is 1996-2003. 2004 was in the upper 30s also I believe, but I haven't verified that.

2003 2002 2001 2000 1999
38,668 29,257 25,446 30,287 26,933
1998 1997 1996
23,479 19,855 35,752

Thanks, Bullet. Actually, they look a bit better than I orginally thought.

a) Memphis' 2004 average was just over 41k, greatly aided by the home games against Louisville and So Miss. (Did you know they played 5 home games and 6 road games this year?)

b) Lash, kudos to you for taking a stand. I can't committ to which programs I'd prefer to see in a reconfigured BE right now, but I will say I'm refraining from any judgement on Temple until 2007. Then again, I haven't been as involved with BE football as with basketball. But I'd prefer them over So Miss, if just to clean up the geography of it all.

c) Having put some of the pieces of the puzzle together, I wonder if a BE expansion would do what the first round of realignments did not: Kill off a conference and thus free up some air time and money for the rest of the world. Cold hearted, yes, but seemingly the only way we'll ever thin the herd and allow for cleaner reviews of the 1-A membership and BCS membership debates. (This is all pending the 1-AA legislation mentioned elsewhere.) Would it be fair to say this should be an objective of the BE - so stratifying the conferences that even taking in weaker siblings in UAB and ECU HELPS the BE seperate itself from the have-nots?

d) Lots more chatter on CUSA boards regarding the possible future scenarios. The theories of a BE all sports line-up has trickled down to those now wanting in. I wonder if this will spurn the event closer to reality - or dig up animosity that prevents it from happening.

e) Any chance whatsoever the folks at Temple see this coming and become pro-active? I'd have to believe that if their Athletic Department in general and football in particular begin to turn the corner, their in the same moment Memphis is in if for no other reason but Philly basketball. (Yet again, I'm the avowed regionalist.)

Gunnerfan, I see the future having a possibility of seven BCS conferences with 12 members each.

If the NCAA approves as expected the dopping of Div 1AA and Div 1A into just Division 1, Villanova a more likely future Big East football school if the Big East attendance average could be reached of 25,000.

If the original ACC raid happened, I think the SEC would have picked up W.Virg and Virg Tech to go to 14. Also, the ACC might have jumped to 14 with UCONN and Rutgers, thus probably creating a merger of the remaining big east school's and CUSA.

to add to your coments blue, also the Big Ten may have went ahead with expansion and offered Notre Dame or Pitt as the 12th member

Well, i might have jumped the gun. I don't think there is any doubt the SEC would have moved very fast to get W.Virg and V. Tech but the ACC might have waited a little, although i think they would eventually have also gone to 14 by getting 2 from ND, UCONN + Rutgers. Thus, the big east probably could have created a football league or somekind of merger with conf usa for awhile. I do think the big 10 would have made another move for ND and if that didn't go through settled for pitt but like the ACC they might have invested some more time trying to get ND. Yet, the bottom line is everybody from the old big east might have been better off long term if the orginial ACC raid had gone through. Let's see, W.V + V.Tech to the SEC, BC,Uconn,Rutgers,Syracuse, and Miami to the ACC, and pitt to the big 10. Put cincy,lville and s.f back in cusa with ND forming a catholic hoops league. I think this process might have taken a few years but my view is that is how it would have turned out.