Big East football now at 12 with the regular 8 and Notre Dame leading the part football members of Villanova, Army and Navy. Villanova will play 3 Big East games at D-1A level and includes Army and Navy. Now Big East will 12 football is a big or bigger than other BCS conferences.

The Big East has some fine schools and many of us wish them well. However, these BE apologists and promoters who stretch the BE's association with Notre Dame need a reality check.
I doubt any other BCS conference would admit Notre Dame just for basketball and some other olympic sports. I am not even sure the MAC would do it. Certainly C-USA has moved now to all-sports.
It would be a very positive move for the Big East if Notre Dame became an all-sports member. That would strengthen and solidify the conference. It just hasn't happened, and the Notre Dame gestures to the fb BE are simply that at this time: gestures. Maybe we will see one or two more ND games in the geographic east (as opposed to the BE), and perhaps if a 12 game regular season slate comes to fruitation, ND will schedule another opponent from the BE to play somewhat regularly. That is far short of playing eight conference opponents.
Does ND being in the BE for bb help BE football? That has been debated in this forum and others. Personally, I view it stimatizes BE football, and was a factor, though perhaps minor, in the conference's vulnerability to the ACC raid. Face it, it was the ACC's conflicting task of which three BE teams they wanted, NOT which three they could get. Remember, Syracuse was one of the original three proposed. Virginia politics, not the BE, stopped that one. Would West Virginia or Rutgers have turned down an ACC invite?
If the Big10 forgot about ND and still decided to reach twelve, would Syracuse or Pittsburgh say no? In contrast, we cannot be so sure Missouri, Nebraksa, or even Iowa State would necessarily leave the Big12 for a Big10 offer. At least, they would have to ponder it deeply.
If Notre Dame is holding the Big10 and BE in limbo as to future expansion or an eventual split in the case of the later, it is the conferences themselves that are responsible for the status quo (acknowledging the fact the Big10 has stated it has no desire to expand by will maintain their options).
If the BE is truly BCS, a depth of firm dedication needs to be more evident and show over time. Things like booting Temple and embracing Notre Dame, who will not even offer up their fb program, while having bb schools from Providence to Milwaukee, is not a recipe for longterm cohesion.
The original BE bb messed up badly when they said no to Penn State a long time ago. Had the decision been different at the time, the Big East, the ACC, and the Big 10 could each be looking a bit different.

You are absolutely right, D&C.

Everybody is right.However,ND there are no better deals.Thus getting mad at ND will not make it better.Only cheap dumb schools like Rutgers would allow a jerk who has a 25% winning rate to continue.Rutgers allows their jerky hc to switch sides at homes games so he can be on tv more.The problem with the BE is they have hired lightweights as HC at places like Rutgers.

Will Notre Dame actually sell out the Meadowlands against BE teams?

If they don't, doesn't the pressure on the BE schools just get worse?

Notre Dame doesn’t have any power out side of the Big East. They got their freedom as an independence football for being in the Big East. They can join a mid-major like MAC and C-USA and compete for mid-level talent pool for their basketball or be a part of major conference and recruit similar talent for their basketball programs the Big East the only high-major conference gives them that option and allow them stay as independent in football. They should get on their knee and :-* our ass. After the split the Big East will no longer classified as I-A conference and all the big-time basketball schools no longer there and a one time high-major will become a A-10 on steroid but in time it’s too will lose all at-large bid in NCAA tournament, just another mid-major.

The BE was always going to be suseptible to a raid even if they were 8 all sports teams without the bb schools.

The BE wasn't making as much money for FB or BB as the ACC. The only way the BE would have gotten more money is by raiding the ACC before the ACC raided them - ie by taking say FSU, GaTech, Maryland, and either NCState or Clemson?.

Even if the BE were at twelve with a championship game I doubt would have given conference members the $120 million that the ACC got with the additions of VT, UM, and BC with the following teams:

North: BC, SU, RU, UCONN, PITT, WVU
South: VT, UM, UL, ECU, UC, Memphis

I think think that three of these teams would have gone to the ACC to make more money. The only way this league 12-team hypthetical league might have stayed together is if PSU or ND would have joined.

What are your thoughts?

Notre Dame's 2005 fb schedule has 3 Big 10 teams (Mich., Mich. St. & Purdue); 3 PAC 10 teams (USC, Stanford & Wash.) 2 BE teams (Syracuse & Pittsburgh); 1 SEC team (Tenn.); 1 MWC team (BYU) and 1 independent (Navy).

So ND's BE fb schedule is 2/11 of their overall slate. Exactly where is the evidence in this that Notre Dame has shifted to a BE fb commitment?

Had the BE been all-sports the raid may still have happened, but certainly not with the qucikness of those who departed. The key was not whether or not Penn State or Notre Dame had been a part of it----that is all fantasy. The determining factor was the wishes of Miami. Virginia Tech would have gone ACC under most any scenario. However, Miami held the power card at the time, and if the BE was structured more to the pleasing of Miami, Miami possibly could have stayed. However, the BE contained no close rivalries that would have them stopped looking towards the ACC. The real key was the ACC garnering enough votes among themselves to be willing to expand. This was the moment UNC and Duke did not control the rest of the ACC, and even Wake and NC State broke from the solid NC four.

Notre Dame will ride their PAST glory for all the millage they can muster. As time goes by, even if Notre Dame has a few successful seasons in the meantime, their prominence and distinction will continue to level off in comparison to their prime peers in current 1A throughout the country.

Notre Dame's BE set up with bb, and their special BCS criteria from being a negotiating party in the setup, is an artificial means of maintaining their separation and image of loftiness.

During the dated and not necessarily recent past, other bigtime schools that knew what independence was like, i. e. Florida State, Georgia Tech, South Carolina, Miami, VPI, and Penn State, and much of what is now BE fb, had to face the decision to join a conference. The reasons are obvious: SCHEDULING ALL-SPORTS, REVENUE, AND PROMINENCE. I doubt any that have joined a conference, would want to go back to being independent. Temple's BE fb exit, for example, was forced and now they are talking to the MAC.

In the case of Notre Dame, scheduling has not been an issue from the standpoint of finding good teams who will play them. They have their prominent regulars, and the stability of their scheduling is more solid that many schools firmly in conferences. Notre Dame's scheduling issue is how to "soften" their competition without looking as if they are compromising on name prestige (they will play BYU and Navy; but certainly not Fresno State and LA-Monroe).

Revenue for Notre Dame has been facilitated with their enthusiastic and extensive following. That is deserving and admired. On the other hand, BCS payouts (knowing that there was a recent modification initiative for independents), an individual NBC contract, the bowls lust for Notre Dame, are enabling dimensions that help keep Notre Dame coffers full and then some. If Notre Dame had any serious financing issue in maintaining their athletic programs, they would seriously be chatting with an all-sports conference fast.

Notre Dame will have the most difficult challenge in holding onto its prominence. Staying independent, by choice, is one psychological attempt. However, the landscape of college football is forever changing in steady degrees, and with most prime schools exposed to widespread media access, old time tradition is only going to carry a school so far. Notre Dame can load up with superior recruits; but so can Florida State, Texas, USC, Georgia, Iowa, Miami, and a couple of dozen others. The fanatical following, exclusive of Notre Dame's student body and alumni, cannot be so distinuished and stereotyped as it once was (subway fans, 2nd & 3rd generation urban, Irish decendents, Catholics, etc.). Pro football, as much as anything, cut into this. Demographics shift and secularism abounds.

The Big 10 says they are in no hurry to expand to 12 and they are just fine with 11. Maybe they should provide a Sherman statement and say 11, that's it and no Notre Dame. Or, if the concept of adding a choice number 12 is still a pondering element, then declare they are open to "recieving applications" for #12 consideration and call Notre Dame's bluff. The Big 10 would still obtain a fine (perhaps even better) school for the future, and be done with any further expansion concerns.

For Notre Dame, it would nice to say, "it's BE for you, baby", "that is your reward", and "the BE has been so loyal and waited so long" and "Mike T. is still brilliant". Never mind, that 12th Big 10 was landed from the BE.
And as we know, Miami and BC, were not the jilted bride types and left some time ago. Maybe Syracuse will be that Big 10 #12; they kind of got jilted too) by the ACC).

The BE will thrive.ND,Army and Navy will be of the pie .Even look at Villanova to play as part of BE football.

I read the Baltimore and Washington papers daily. None have carried any reports to the effect that Navy will have any affiliation with the BE. I'm not saying that it wouldn't make sense, but it's still a pipedream.

No pipe dream.To begin with ND will play both Army and Navy.Scheduling games with Rutgers and UConn for both Army and Navy is already underway.Including the Army and Navy game you already have 5 games.Games between WVU and Syracuse have happened in the past.This is ascheduling alliance not a full membership.

Vanderbilt plays Middle Tennessee. South Carolina plays Troy. LA-Monroe plays Arkansas. Oh my goodness! The SunBelt has an alliance with the SEC.

This Notre Dame, Villanova, Army and Navy supposed alliance is internet bull. Certain non-conference northeastern colleges will play each simply by location and/or some tradition, not by common conference membership. Army and Navy have been playing each other from the get-go and have played Notre Dame for ages. This was going on long before those who conceived the Big East were ever born.