Big Sky interested in NDSU and SDSU again

Redfield · **Posted:** Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:04 am

P.S. SDSU Enrollment is in the 11,000 range while USD's is in the 7,000 range.

metropolitan · **Joined:** Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:20 pm **Posts:** 794

Hey Redfield we finally agree on something. Well at least your first post. Your second, well I am not sure what your source is, but according to the World Alamanac, USD had an enrollment of ~8,100 in 2003-04 academic year and SDSU had an enrollment of ~10,600 in 2003-04. Not that its that much of a difference.

But either way they are relatively not too much in difference in size. Its always the function of the university and not necessarily enrollment that you make comparisons. The University of Arizona, which is both the land grant and the flagship of Arizona has about 10k less in enrollment than Arizona's metropolitan university of Arizona State. Though Arizona State is seen by many in the academic realms as being a heavy research university like a flagship or a land grant and basically in the same peership as U of Arizona. The enrollment is not what tells the complete story.

I've have regularly quoted Dr. Berdahl's speech on what a flagship university is, so thanks for posting it.

Now, the athletic department at USD. I don't disagree with that article and the state of their athletic department budget problems. However, over time things could change with regards to their status.

sportskc · **Joined:** Sun Nov 09, 2003 11:18 pm **Posts:** 758

I'm going to say that I think UND will move to I-AA sometime soon, probally after NDSU and SDSU can get in a conference. South Dakota and Nebraska-Omaha will probally go to the MIAA instead of NSICC.

metropolitan · **Joined:** Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:20 pm **Posts:** 794

Quote:

I'm going to say that I think UND will move to I-AA sometime soon, probally after NDSU and SDSU can get in a conference. South Dakota and Nebraska-Omaha will probally go to the MIAA instead of NSICC.

Its not likely to be the Big Sky Conference, if their goal is an "paired-up", "even", "divisional format", as the Dakota States only offer two universities and the only possibility for a third, really, is the University of North Dakota. Cal-Davis and Cal Poly are not giving indications of changing what conference they would like to be in and SUU is not good enough for the BSC academic criteria and UVSC and DU don't play football, as well as UVSC has junior college-like academics, WWU, WOU, and CWU, are not likely moving up to 1-AA as there isn't enough "juice" as Pounder put it.

The travel issue to the Dakotas will be a problem for admittance into the BSC as it will be for any other present day 1-AA and 1-AAA conference.

Redfield · **Posted:** Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:35 am

Quote:

I'm going to say that I think UND will move to I-AA sometime soon, probally after NDSU and SDSU can get in a conference. South Dakota and Nebraska-Omaha will probally go to the MIAA instead of NSICC.

I agree.

metropolitan · **Joined:** Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:20 pm **Posts:** 794

There's also a possibility that the two Dakota State's will be independent for awhile, possibly like TAMU-CC or UTPA, due to their location.

Gas prices, charter plane costs, airline destinations, bankrupting airlines result in higher prices, less planes landing in destinations due to cutbacks and more time for student-athletes to be traveling to sporting events = more challenges for conference candidacy.

tman · **Posted:** Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:31 am

Ok, USD is far ahead of SUU on academics, my mistake.

UVSC had 2700 new undergrad freshman while SUU only had 900, though. So UVSC is definately a larger school.

Here are some other enrollment comparisons:

North Carolina - 3600, NC St. - 4000

Kansas - 4200 new freshman, KS St. - 3500

Iowa - 4000, IA St. - 3700

Michigan - 6000, MI St. - 7600

Arizona - 5700, AZ St. 7100

So most of the big states with both a liberal arts school and an agriculture school have about the same enrollment. South Dakota is a bit behind with SDSU at 2000 and USD at 1000.

tman · **Posted:** Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:32 am

Those above numbers are new freshman, by the way, not total (all undergrad + all grad) enrollment.

Redfield · **Posted:** Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:42 am

Lovefest is over, there you go with that redundant thing again. There have been 50 posts on this thread so far, 21 were posted by you (almost half), and in at least 6 of those (got tired of counting) you have typed something about "Gas prices" & "airline bankruptcy". We got it, gas prices are high and airlines are going bankrupt and still SDSU and NDSU will find conference homes. Still the Big Sky is interested. Not everyone has to agree with you and posting the same thing over and over is not going to change that.

So please we all know how you feel about the Dakota's from a market demographics stand point and it is equally clear that "gas prices are higher" and that "airlines are going bankrupt". Do us all a favor if you don't have anything else to add don't bother posting.

metropolitan · **Joined:** Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:20 pm **Posts:** 794

Doesn't matter. In the academic world, USD is the flagship of the state of South Dakota and SDSU is the land grant. Both combined serve a dual role as flagships for the state of SD.

The statement wouldn't be in the Encylcopedia of the Great Plains, a book and project that recieved funds from the National Endowment for the Humanities and the government of Canada:

http://www.unl.edu/plains/publications/egp.html

metropolitan · **Joined:** Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:20 pm **Posts:** 794

Quote:

Lovefest is over, there you go with that redundant thing again. There have been 50 posts on this thread so far, 21 were posted by you (almost half), and in at least 6 of those (got tired of counting) you have typed something about "Gas prices" & "airline bankruptcy". We got it, gas prices are high and airlines are going bankrupt and still SDSU and NDSU will find conference homes. Still the Big Sky is interested. Not everyone has to agree with you and posting the same thing over and over is not going to change that.

So please we all know how you feel about the Dakota's from a market demographics stand point and it is equally clear that "gas prices are higher" and that "airlines are going bankrupt". Do us all a favor if you don't have anything else to add don't bother posting.

You don't like a lovefest, huh?

When you come to a board, people are going to talk about things in an honest way.

Also, those Texas schools are an example of teams that have went a long time without going into a conference. Their location did not help them. TAMU-CC just was admitted into a conference. UTPA is still without a home. Its a possibility when new moveups move up without a conference home. Especially when conferences are either filled up nearby and/or not likely to take them or they are not close at all.

Redfield · **Posted:** Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:51 am

I am just trying to stop you from sounding like Rain Man so much . . . "I get my underwear and K-mart, yea K-Mart" . . . Gas Prices are higher and Airlines are going bankrupt, yea bankrupt.

Are you some kind of idiot savant?

metropolitan · **Joined:** Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:20 pm **Posts:** 794

We haven't discussed these issues. They are brought up, but you ignore them.

Northwest Airlines is going bankrupt. Is their any talk of reducing their trips into Sioux Fals and Fargo with Northwest Airlink? Is this a possibility?

This is very related to conference alignment. You want to contribute?

Redfield · **Posted:** Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:56 am

UTPA is not a good example as they were kicked out of their last D-I conference for rules violations.

star2city · **Joined:** Sun Apr 24, 2005 4:37 pm **Posts:** 27

I posted this back on May 2nd:

Quote:

If the conference athletic picture stays reasonably stable in the next two years, I know for a fact that there has been talk within Big Sky circles to add three teams and go to two divisions.

The division would be:

South/West (travel partners)
N. Ariz - Sac State
Weber St. - Idaho State
Portland St - E Wash

North/East (travel partners)
Mont - Mont St
N. Colo - S Dak St
UND - NDSU

The Montana schools want expansion to the East, so as to create rivals that were lost when Idaho (as well as Boise St and Nevada ) left the Sky. In three years, NDSU and SDSU will be off probation so the timing would be right. The expansion would also help protect the Sky in the event of losses to the WAC. With the Division setup, travel to the Dakotas is limited for most existing teams, except for the Montanas and UNC, which want the Dakota rivalries. Economically, it would work if a conference tournament drew decent enough attendance in a location like Denver or Salt Lake (the Sky doesn’t get much television revenue). The inclusion of Northern Colorado was the prerequisite step. The benefit of the Dakota schools is that they travel well, which is not true for other BSC schools excepting the Montanas, so the conference tournament could actually be quite profitable. In addition, the Sky thinking is that SDSU (with Frost Arena) and UND, (with the Ralph and Betty arenas), have a reasonable shot at attracting higher levels basketball recruits than other BSC teams could.

The probablity of UND / NDSU / and SDSU all being invited to the Big Sky for the 2008-9 calendar is year is > 75%, IMO. Unless Fullerton has been vacationing in Grand Forks and taking notes on UND's athletic facilities, something is up.

As a UND fan, a number of recent announcements all point toward the DI direction, including the hiring of a new AD (with DI experience - our previous AD was our former football coach who didn't have a strong finance/business background) and the first long-term contract for our football coach, to cover the transition period. With over $220 million in new athletic facilities constructed within the past five years and a new indoor track / football training complex to be built, few schools have ever been as prepared as UND facilities-wise for a DII to DI transition.

Big Sky interested in NDSU and SDSU again

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