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 Post subject: New Arenas
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:21 pm 
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This thread is for new arenas. I placed it in the off topic section because my first post may be viewed as not relating to sports per se.

Please post any news about any new arenas being conceptualized, designed/developed/constructed/ and/or new, or old ones that work and will not need to be replaced, or ones that are outdated, or ones that are not needed, and for whatever purpose. IE College Sports, Pro Sports, Concerts, Conventions, etc.


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 Post subject: New Arenas
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:50 pm 
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Since Omaha has built the Qwest Center, the City of Lincoln, NE, home of the University of Nebraska (flagship) wants to keep up with the Jones. Despite having the 13,500 seat Bob Devaney Sports Center which is shared between the University of Nebraska (home of the Men's and Women's Nebraska Basketball teams and Swimming and Diving and Indoor Track) and the Nebraska State Fair Park (often times during the State Fair, Lincoln has some of its few big name act concerts, as it usually loses out to Omaha, Kansas City and Ames, IA), they would like a Qwest-like municipal arena for the City of Lincoln (which is a city now of 1/4 of million and steadily growing, though most of the growth is from people moving from rural Nebraska into Lincoln)

http://www.journalstar.com/articles/2005/12/03/local/doc439233b10a81d007461075.txt

Aparantly, the Qwest Center in Omaha, home of Creighton Bluejay (Men's) and UNO Maverick Hockey is a national success, despite competing with Kemper/New Arena in Kansas City. However, other nearby arenas are having some success, including the one in Sioux City, while others are having some problems:

http://www.journalstar.com/articles/2005/12/03/special/doc4392323b00411265350219.txt

They don't include the new Wells Fargo Arena (17,000) in Des Moines, which is struggling (perhaps due to nearby Ames/ISU being a big name in concerts):

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051202/NEWS08/512020376&SearchID=73228649029953

Side Note: Two of the most known non-country concerts ever to take place in Lincoln were the Phish concert back in 1995, held at aging Pershing Auditorium, to a sold out crowd. Conservative Lincoln leaders at the time were put-off by the Grateful Dead-like pro-hippie crowd that came to Lincoln from all over the nation. It almost seemed they didn't want such concerts after that one. I attended this one 10 years ago. Now they want concerts again, and being a college town, they may have some edge over Omaha that they finally realize they could have. Although, for the most part, Omaha is more likely to win out with most concert venue competitions, due to the 800K + metro market compared to the 275K Lincoln, although Omaha people may go to Lincoln for some acts.

The other major well-known concert in Lincoln circles was R.E.M. in the late 1980's (1987ish) which right before they became more of a household name. I remember many talking about this concert for years during my Lincoln years.

My first concert was 15 years ago at Kemper Arena in KC (saw Rush, and as always, the Canadian wannabe patriots came with a Canadian flag to salute their favorite Canadians). Ames plays into my concert going history, as I saw U2 on the Zoo TV tour, and had to go to Cyclone Stadium in Ames to see them. Traffic filled I-80 and I-35, with traffic from 6 to 7 surrounding states into Ames to see that one. There were well over 50,000 to 60,000 at the Cyclone Stadium that night, upon which Bono proclaimed: "We have more people than Ames!" Ames at the time was less than 50,000.

Another note is that I know of acts that even skip KC, let alone Omaha, Ames, Nebraska and Iowa, as well as Kansas (let alone the Dakotas) and may only go to St. Louis, Minneapolis, Denver and Chicago surrounding these markets/states.


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 Post subject: New Arenas
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:47 pm 
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The other thing about Lincoln is that the NCAA used to host some Men's NCAA first and second round basketball tournament games at the Devaney Center back in the 1970's and 1980's. They stopped, when they instituted a rule that there needs to be at least 5 major hotels in the city/metro area/market to be able to host NCAA Men's Tournament games. Lincoln currently only has 3 major hotels. If they were to build this 15K arena in the Haymarket, which is adjacent to the downtown and next to two of the three hotels plus get two more hotels, they may get March Madness again. However, with the Qwest Center in Omaha, I believe they are now picking up some NCAA tournament games. They have the 5 major hotels, if not more.

Side note: Volleyball is big in Nebraska. The Nebraska Women's Volleyball team hosted a tourney at the Qwest Center in Omaha, and 10,000 showed up, which I think is a record, if I am not mistaken, for Women's Volleyball.


Last edited by metropolitan on Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: New Arenas
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:43 pm 
UVA opens a new 15k seat arena next season, known as the John Paul Jones Arena.

University of Missouri and Tulsa (City/University) have recently opened arenas as well. Tulsa's is an 18k event center, I believe, and is part of their overall downtown revitalization scheme.

I'm unsure if Oklahoma City is interested in one, but aren't they among the canabals talking of luring the Hornets out of New Orleans?

I'll see what else I can find.


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 Post subject: New Arenas
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:01 pm 
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Quote:


"and she's buying the Stairway to Heaven"

Sorry, probably the wrong John Paul Jones. Probably the one from Colonial times? as opposed to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Bassist.


Quote:
University of Missouri


Last I heard, this was to be named after a 22 year old relative (daughter/grand daughter) of the Walton (Wal-Mart) family who donated the money to build the arena.

Odd to have a basketball arena named after you and you are only 22.


Quote:
I'm unsure if Oklahoma City is interested in one, but aren't they among the canabals talking of luring the Hornets out of New Orleans?


Isn't the Ford Center, the current home of the New Orleans Hornets, fairly new? Like 2002? I think it holds like 20K.

Thanks Gunner.


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 Post subject: New Arenas
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:35 am 
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Location: Portland! (and about time!)
Ford Center does have the attributes Metro mentions...

Only drawback, as I understand it, is that it has 12 luxury suites or thereabouts. That doesn't sound like a long term solution. Not sure if renovations could be done there.

What I hear is that New Orleans Arena came out relatively unscathed. The issue for the Hornets is how many ticket buying fans return to New Orleans.


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 Post subject: New Arenas
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:52 pm 
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The new arena at MU was named for the Wal-Mart's heir but it was also the name of her's fathers company - Paige Sports Entertainment, which the naming rights were from. Then they had to go and take her name off of it after it was learned that she cheated her away throught USC, its now just called the Mizzou Arena.

Kansas City's new arena, Sprint Center, is going to get the acts that been going elsewhere. Its supposly the best arena to be built, all the big name KC architecture firms which are also the best sports architecture firms in the nation, designed it to be the best. Kemper is a total dump.

Lincoln sounds alot like Springfield. I know the talk down there is about an arena as well, trouble is for minor league sports a 7k arena is the perfect size, but to get the concerts they need a 12k+. I think the city will end up building a smaller one for the sport teams, and the university will end building the 12k arena. They want NCAA tournament as well, but women's. Hotels wouldn't be a problem if people want to drive 30 miles. Branson has a ton.


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 Post subject: New Arenas
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:07 pm 
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Thanks for the update on the Mizzou Arena, I hadn't heard that about the young Walton lady cheating her way through USC.

Yes, Lincoln is similar to Springfield, MO in its size and growth rate, although somewhat different in that it is a state capital and it has the state flagship university and the ag school which takes up a separate campus in Lincoln called East Campus (and has a thing called a Dairy Store and a Kellog Hotel, which are two things you will find on most Land Grant campuses. MSU has a hotel called Kellog and a Dairy Store. I believe Iowa State may have these two things as well). The other difference is that Lincoln is only a mere 55 miles from Omaha. People in Nebraska talk like Omaha and Lincoln are going to grow together. Maybe some exurban sprawl exists, although the terrain in the vast Platte Valley area on I-80 is steep. Also Nebraskans don't necessarily understand what they are saying as to grow together like twin cities when you are 55 miles apart?! You tell them about Washington D.C and Baltimore being 35 miles apart, and that greater area has 7.6 million people. Dallas-Ft. Worth are like 25 to 30 miles apart, and they have 5.6 million. Omaha and Lincoln metro areas combined have barely over 1 million, and are farther apart than those two cities. You also have such things as Seattle-Tacoma (3.5 million), Minneapolis-St. Paul (which are adjacent cities and 3.2 million), Miami-Ft. Lauderdale-West Palm Beach (5.2 million), San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose (7.1 million), Greensboro-Winston-Salem-High Point (1.3 million), Raleigh-Durham-Cary-Chappel Hill (1.3 million), Norfolk-Virginia Beach-Newport News (1.6 million), Cleveland-Akron (2.9 million). That is what you call "growing together". Heck even Cincinnati and Dayton are 55 miles apart, and are not like these cities, though they are growing somewhat together, but they collectively have 3.2 million between both metro areas. It seems kinda out of wack to say Omaha and Lincoln being 55 miles apart and barely even 1 million between them to say they are "growing together" just because they see a rural subdivision overlooking the Platte Valley every 5 miles is not growing together in a national sense. But that's beside the point. Omaha and Lincoln kinda share the same media market. Lincoln has a CBS and ABC station, but relies on Omaha to provide their NBC, Fox, WB and UPN stations. Its big enough to have an NBC and Fox station, but too close to Omaha to justify it. So its identity is sorta tied to Omaha, whereas Springfield is far enough away from KC and St. L that they have maybe more of an identity.

The thing with some of these concert acts is that its not just about an arena, multiple venues to cater to different touring needs. Big Arenas are for the big acts, like U2, Green Day, etc. But many acts tour scaled-down and like more intimate settings for their shows. Theatres and performance halls are also needed. I think KC has a few of these, like an historic theatre that holds 2,000 to 4,000 or a Convocation Hall/Concert Hall about the same size. Sometimes acts go to Lawrence, KS to perform at such venues and for more college oriented acts. But big cities also have this. The Fox Theatre in St. Louis near the Saint Louis University campus is an example of one such venue.

But not only that, there is the summer concert circuit, which is maily an outdoor ampitheater circuit. I believe that there is a outdoor ampithere called Sandstone, or it used to be called that located in KS near KC, but I've heard some not so good things about that venue. I believe St. L. has an outdoor ampitheatre near Maryland Heights, MO if I am not mistaken. There's sometimes preferences among these. Like here in Detroit area, a place called Pine Knob that is called DTE Music Theatre, where I've seen Neil Young, Peter Gabriel and Rush, people don't like it, as its also bad sight lines and less intimate. Whereas another ampitheatre, which is on the Oakland University campus, called Meadowbrook is more preferred as far as intimacy and sight lines. I saw Beck there and is a better venue.

Nebraska (either Omaha or Lincoln) and I believe Iowa don't have these theatres. Omaha-based Manheim Steamroller talked at one time building an outdoor ampitheatre between Omaha and Lincoln, near the Platte River, but nothing has yet to come of it.

Also, in 1987, Farm Aid III was held at Memorial Stadium in Lincoln. That was the only concert ever held there. After Farm Aid left, Tom Osborne complained about the damage that the rafters and equipment did to the astroturf. However, Iowa State is more open about renting out Cyclone Stadium. I remember ISU's previous head football coach (before Dan MaCarney), getting beat by Nebraska in Lincoln, then he told reporters he was headed back to Ames that evening so he could see the Rolling Stones perform at Cyclone Stadium. At that time, thought it was odd to hear about a head football coach going to see the Rolling Stones after being clobbered.

The issue is not only a need for the huge arenas for concerts, but a need for mulitiple venues to cater to many touring needs for different seasons.

KC may seem too close to St. L. which is the slightly bigger market, to justify going there. Some acts also don't tour as long as they used to, going on 30 or 40 date North American tours, and I imagine that KC sometimes does and sometimes does not make those 30 to 40 date tours.


Last edited by metropolitan on Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: New Arenas
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:54 pm 
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Location: Portland! (and about time!)
I don't think we see near the number of stadium and even arena-based concert tours that we used to.

I know more amphitheaters in the Sun Belt (heck, even in the Portland suburbs) have gone up recently. Salt Lake has one. Denver's (Red Rocks, a very "natural" amphitheater) is older, smaller, but way cooler. Mind you, many tours have to come around in the winter, and those aren't going to be outdoors in Portland, SLC, or Denver, so arenas aren't totally shut out... but they're not necessarily maximizing dates used, either.

Oddly enough, my favorite concert was the one in the ballroom at Erb Memorial Union on the Oregon campus. R.E.M. was there... back when they released Lifes Rich Pageant. Not being that close for others (except when I saw the ill-fated Hole/Marilyn Manson tour- it wasn't my idea to go, though I did appreciate Hole at the time) still spoils me.


Last edited by pounder on Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: New Arenas
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:10 pm 
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Yep, I've been to Red Rocks. That is indeed a very cool venue. It was the H.O.R.D.E. Festival (hippie version of Lollapollaza (sp?)) about 12 years ago. It was built during the Depression Era, as either a WPA project or a CCC project. Can't remember which. It is literally on the Front Range Rocky Mountain looking down at Denver and the vast Great Plains :o .

That was where U2 filmed their 1980's "Sunday, Bloody Sunday" video, with the fog off the mountain, and flames for lights.

Yeah, arenas and stadiums are kinda old hat. Big acts like U2 and Green Day use those venues, because they are such huge acts and demand is higher. But I believe there are a few smaller scale concert halls/theatres that have been built recently. The Dodge Theatre in Phoenix, AZ is fairly new and is one such example.

It seems the better concert experiences are usually in more intimate settings.


Last edited by metropolitan on Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: New Arenas
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:22 pm 
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Its the arena why KC doesn't get the acts, met. There was an article in the KC Star about it. I know they interviewed the coordinator for Kemper and said they lost out on Paul McCartney, Elton John and somebody else to Oklahoma City, Des Moines, and Omaha bc of the arena situtation. Man I wish I could find that article.

Also dont forgot about the mid-major arena in the suburbs that is coming popular. St. Louis, Chicago, have them - KC's suburb Overland Park is thinking about one, to fill that need. KC is also building a brand new Performing Arts Center next to Bartle Hall.

On the music venue list you have:

Stadiums (major major superstar acts - Rolling Stones, Metallica, Garth Brooks)
Big Arenas/amphitheater (major superstar acts)
Mid-sized arena (mid level superstars, upcoming acts)
Theater (mid level, upcoming, old)
Clubs (upcomers, old acts)

I think most would agree with that list.


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 Post subject: New Arenas
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:06 pm 
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That may be Sports KC.

What I am refering to are artist that I follow.

Peter Gabriel (Sledgehammer) did his first tour in a decade back in 02-03. He did not come close to KC.

10 years prior to that he didn't even get close to KC either. I remember Minneapolis being the closest to Nebraska then that he came, and I was to busy to see him in concert. Finally, being in a bigger market like Detroit I was able to see him in concert twice in 02-03.

I have seen other artist totally skip KC, Iowa, Kansas and Nebraska.

Unless an artist is plan to tour for at least 6 months, they are not likely to book KC. A number of artist only tour for 3 months if not less. 30 to 40 dates is becoming common. This include Canada and the US. Its Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver (maybe) in the Canada, and then about 27 to 35 dates in the US, with NYC and LA and maybe Chicago getting two or more dates.

If you talk to most concert goers, they will mostly agree that the smaller the venue, the better the concert.

Theaters and Concert halls are the best venues for a concert. Arenas are for basketball and hockey, and are hard to covert to a concert theather arrangement. Maybe the really loud and dense sounding acts need large halls and arenas. However, the best concerts are generally in the most intimate settings.

What I am talking about is a diverse concert going experience and a market and venues to support that. I don't see KC in that group. Cities like Austin, TX and Orlando, FL, and Nashville, TN or even a market in North Carolina (like either Charlotte or the Research Triangle). Salt Lake City may even get an act because its a long ways from Denver to Seattle or Vancouver or SF or LA or even PHX and SLC is along the way but far enough from Denver. All of these markets are smaller markets, are likely to get a more diverse live music concert scene than KC. This is similar on the West Coast. Sacremento and Fresno get less concerts than the Bay Area, LA, San Diego, and even Santa Barabara, which is maybe 1/4 the size of Sacremento and less than 1/2 the size of Fresno.


Last edited by metropolitan on Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: New Arenas
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:00 pm 
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Location: Portland! (and about time!)
Depends on availability, too. San Diego may not get a concert on a particular tour... someone like Prince ends up going to Bakersfield.

I heard of several suburban proposals, then several that bit the dust. Except for Chicagoland (one going up in Hoffman Estates), I wonder if that scene has already played out. The one outside St. Louis has a less than optimal track record for its sports teams. However, Allstate gets plenty of business. Sounds like something that belongs in the mega-markets (Top 8-15, perhaps), but not below that.


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 Post subject: New Arenas
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:14 pm 
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Quote:
The one outside St. Louis has a less than optimal track record for its sports teams.


Is that the one in St. Charles, MO?

Nebraska bball team in the last 6 or 7 years played in some holiday tournament there.


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 Post subject: New Arenas
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:21 pm 
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Family Arena in St. Charles. Not a bad place, UHL River Otters hockey team is the only stable franchise.


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