ACC stadium sizes (as of early summer, 05):

1. Doak Campbell (FSU) 82,300
2. Clemson Memorial 81,473
3. Orange Bowl (Miami) 72,319
4. Lane (VPI) 65,115
5. Scott (UVA) 61,500
6. Kenan (UNC) 60,000
7. Carter-Finley (NCSU) 56,800
8. Bobby Dodd (GT) 55,000
9. Byrd (Maryland) 51,500
10. Alumni (Boston Col.) 44,500
11. Wallace Wade (Duke) 33,941
12. Groves (Wake Forest) 31,500

Note: Stadium size is not necessarily reflective of attendance. Also, figures may be slightly off since some campuses may have initiated renovations/expansion. The private universities with on-campus stadiums are the smallest. The Univ. of Miami uses the Orange Bowl for home games.

ACC FANS would've loved WVU, and count me among those who championed that idea once the conference was stuck on 11. I honestly believe that while the original TV contracts may not have yielded as much $, the revenue from the football championship and increased fan travel would've off set the concerns.

Contrary to popular opinions I also believe WVU's academics were less of a concern. Perhaps when the original targets of Syracuse and BC were in play, but once VT was brought in that dynamic changed: Both VT and WVU have quality programs but their role as primary state flagships also includes mandates for general admission. There are courses, programs and standards that prohibit them from being as selective as private schools and other state universities. Moreso WVU considering the dirth of options available.

Much of the decision was market related. WVU's closest metro area is also tied with it's arch rival, an equally respected school that, despite being a metro university, has arguably an equally large following. WHat impact WVU has on the Baltimore/DC area was already being covered by MD, UVA and now VT. From the national TV exposure standpoint WVU doesn't impact enough TV households by default compared to BC. Even if BC is struggling, as "the local team" they and their conference will get some play on more TVs.

I can understand the appeal and benefits of BC, but in the long run I feel the ACC would've been better off taking the Mountaineers and having a more secure hold on that region of Appalachia, even if it is small compared to other conferences. Certainly a northern division with MD, UVA, VT, WVU and UNC would foster respectable football provided they didn't canabalize each other for recruits.

Felt the need to edit the above paragraph:

I don't think the ACC saw much value in WV, no market for tv $'s and adding them might hurt some of their teams by equalizing WV program with the ACC folks. I am kinda surprised the ACC left rutgers on the table after admitting Vtech and Miami. Granted they have never won but they make much more sense than BC, ie your talking about the state school for new jersey with the NYC and philly markets to be sold to the TV folks. Instead, the went with private catholic school in boston that is overshadowed by pro teams + out of the ACC footprint. Of course, BC makes sense in a 14 team ACC, their is a gap to be filled by UCONN or syracuse and rutgers but i doubt it ever happens do to bad blood and cutting the revenue pie by 2 more. AS for WV, i think they make sense in 14 team SEC but can't think of who would be team #14. Yet, a 14 team league does have some value, ie you could schedule 6-1-2 format and spread your footprint for more TV $

After seeing how BC got treated by sending the school to Boise and BC is ranked higher than Clemson, Ga Tech, and FSU, WVU should count its blessing the school is in the Big East.

Once the BE has time to get all schools settled with new rivalries, the conference will be close the same footing as the old BE.

BC may look back and rethink the decision to move to ACC based mostly on BCS money.

Dognthings, when the ACC formed breaking off from the Southern Conference in the 50s based on basketball in those days, WVU was one of the best basketball programs in the league. There are historical reports that ACC members did not want the difficult travel to Morgantown. If the modern Interstate highways and improved airports close by WVU were in place in the 50s, WVU may have been a charter member of the ACC.

Now days, TV contracts and not regional rivalries are the things making conference expand.

I think WVU, Syracuse, and Pitt will be fine in the new reconfigured BE. Once the conference established itself, there will be better football TV contracts as well.

BC on the other hand may never see a BCS game in our life time. That is really sad since BC based its decision totally on money to go south to the ACC. Hope BC fans like blue turf because that may be the destination for the school for the short term.

I really wonder if BC would have left the second go around if the school would have really had insight into the BE retaining BCS membership.

Just to clarify some things about this, which I agree is a lousy situation.

Of the 6 bowls the ACC is currently tied to, only the contracts with the Peach and Gator have restrictions regarding which teams they can choose with respect to their standing or record. The Meinike, Champs and MPC bowls had free reign, while formal agreements with the Emerald and Music City do not begin till next year. Thus, once the match-up BC predicted would be theirs (Peach vs UGA/SC) was snubbed by the conference title game upsets, they were left to the mercy of the bowls.

The ACC had already expressed an interest in adopting such clauses across the board for every bowl once the league expanded, and such selection requirements will be in place next year (so we're told).

As I've said elsewhere this seems harsh but it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. BC's been bowling for 6 years straight so their traveling support is no mystery. Regardless of conference affiliation any smaller, northern school faces an uphill climb in selling the virtues of their program to predominantly southern bowls.

AS such, would WVU had been treated differently than BC? Absofrigginlutely.

West Virginia doesn't touch the Atlantic Coast.

No, I don't think that was the problem either....

Geography ceased to be a concern a long time ago.... plus the ACC made inquiries about Notre Dame as #13 (rumor had it) and Indiana is not particularly close to the Atlantic.

As I stated earlier, Marketplace is the reason why WVU did not become a part of the ACC or when the SEC expanded in the 90s. However, rumor has it that WVU was edged out by SC in the 90s. I still feel we fit the Big East. The only people outside the Big East we have a long tradition with is Penn St., VA Tech, BC, and Temple. BC always went to the lower bowls when they were in the Big East. They traded an easier as of now to the BCS for money. Hope they enjoy it!

WVUfan, your coach is recently reported that he would not be surprised to see the Big East expand to 12 teams and have a conference championship in four or five years. Money talks as evidence of your recent raid by the ACC.

I agree with him and believe it will take place in 2010.

Which four teams do WVU fans think are best to bring the BCS Big East to 12 members?

Lash:
Obiviously Notre Dame or convincing Penn St. to leave the Big Ten would be a first choice, but that is a long shot. East Carolina would be the first choice. Tradition with the Big East teams, and they are a VA Tech type before VA Tech became big. Next choice would be UCF, another growing Fla. program. Too many recruits in Fla. for them to cut into S. Fla. Third, offer Villanova one last chance to move up to I-A, else, if Temple begins to improve, offer them the next slot. Temple has tradition with the Big East, duh. Plus it would give them a share of the Phili. market. If Temple does not improve, offer the third and fourth spot to Army and Navy. This may intice Notre Dame if so. If Temple improves, then the fourth spot should go to Memphis. They would provide rivals for Lou. and Cin.

WVU, Temple is a curse word for some certain BE fans around here. ECU is not far behind. ;)

But you are probally right on about those schools.

Coach Jurich of Louisville and Coach Robinson of Syracuse are against the conference championship games, and I don't think the money will be there for the BE to host one unless the potential new members carry Louisville-like football clout and fan support. Plus in years such as this one the last thing the BE would want is an upset in said game (a la the ACC) allowing a less attractive member to win BCS access.

Thanks WVUfan for your input.

Gunnerfan, if it were up to the coaches to decide expansion the Big 12 would not have a championship game. Sorry its the athletic directors under the guidance of the presidents that make the call.

The Big East will expand to 12 and by 2010 is my guess.

With expansion requirements will cause the conference to break apart from non playing football schools.

If they can pay 11 million dollars to the ACC for the game, the Big East should be able to make some money as well.

WVUfan, I have probably proposed every scenario possible for the BE and the teams you mention at one time or the other have also been included.

Dognthings who post on this board will really like your idea of having East Carolina at the top of the pick list.

North: WVU, Pitt, Villanova, UConn, Syracuse, Rutgers

South: South Florida, Central Fla, East Carolina, Cincinnati, Louisville, Memphis

Looks pretty competitive to me and could give the ACC a run for its money in about five years.

Gunnerfan my prediction of South Florida getting a BCS bid before Ga Tech was just to get you wound up. Did not think it could be possible so soon.

Mark my words if Central Fl gets BE membership and South Fl which already has BE membership, they will be breathing down the big 3 neck in Florida in a few years. Hey South Florida was in the running for a BCS game this year and Florida State is really lucky to be there. Miami and Florida are not in the BCS. Is the tide changing on the beaches of Florida. who knows!

I realize that and know the story, but the circumstances are somewhat different. When the Texas schools moved into the Big 8 there were political matters and financial matters as well, such that the move was a solid revenue producer. Such forces that may not necessarily be at play given the candidate schools involved. We're seeing now that the SEC title game may be the only one that doesn't truly impair their champions because of the depth of the league, the huge support, etc. Especially if there is any move toward a playoff, wherein a championship game for football would be like the conf. tourny for smaller leagues - an unnecessary burden that could knock certain teams out of the running.


Let's say we both agree the BE will make the most prudent move, financially speaking. If it's something that raises the profile and coffers of my Syracuse Orange(men), without causing undue harm to others, than I'm all for it. We'll just have to see how the numbers play out.

BTW, I know the ACC game played before 72k, 5k short of a sell out. I know $11-12M was the hoped for total revenue but have not heard a final estimate. You?



I agree those programs will make serious waves, especially with their raised profiles and UCF's future on-campus digs. If they can pull it off, more power to them. I could do with less "Florida" in my life, but that's just me. ;D

As for GT, we have a decent AD who's asserted at a press conference that our fans should not expect to "win 9-10 games (on a consistent basis)," given the schools refound committment to academics, mission, yadda yadda yadda. While I'm sure that quote will be raking in the recruits I understand how these things work and will keep my allegiances where they are. I root for the school, not just the athletic program. Provided they try hard...

WVUfan,

Question about your instate rival, Marshall? What is your opinion on them for maybe the BE in the future?