SIGH...... ND didn't share in FB unless they played in a bowl game. ND kept all the money for a bowl game. However, BE wouldn't have some bowls unless ND was part of the package. That was the deal.

ND didn't keep the BB revenue. They shared it with the other BB schools - including Miami. Its because they played everyone in BB. Miami shared in FB because they played everyone in FB - there is a difference. BE FB money did not goto the BB schools unless you consider administration costs. Therefore, I do not see how this is an issue.

It is funny that you say Miami would complain about the 'sharing' issue when Miami itself wasn't in the BE for all sports either. Miami did not play BE Baseball. While certainly baseball doesn't bring in a lot of money, it does 'ok' at certain schools in the south - this was the reason miami didn't want to play BE Baseball - they wanted to keep that 'money' for themselves. They wanted the prestige to play who they wanted anytime and anywhere. They could have done the same in FB if they thought they could. However, the BE provided a home for their other sports at a high level of competition in the NE where a lot of their alumni reside. AGain, Miami did what was best for them - just like ND - just like the other schools.

Miami did what was best for them and moved to the ACC. I don't blame them. Again, the BE was about special deals. Miami never complained about their Baseball not being part of the BE. They thought it was in their best interest to not have it part of the BE. The BE didn't have a problem with that as part of having Miami in the BE - sound familiar - it's the same with ND.

The BE was always about special deals and everytime BE FB had a chance to breakaway, the powers at be thought to stay together.

If Miami didn't get what they wanted in the ACC they probably would have gone to the SEC with FSU. But that is another topic.

Baseball brings in more money that alot think. Here in Big 12 land, they have some baseball programs that have some really nice facilities. Even the next league, MVC, has 3 baseball powers with good facilities.

SportKC, I agree that some leagues including the Pac 10 make a lot of money from baseball. Baseball is almost as important to Arizona State as football and maybe more than basketball.

PantherSC97, I have to disagree with your logic here as your are sounding a bit like Tigersharktwo. Sorry, but in 2006 I am keeping to the point and trying not let many side issues or theories keep us off track. Granted I had some off base topics as well last year and this is a new year to pounder. Less discuss Miami first. Be honest now with your post, how many BE football schools cared that Miami not playing BE baseball verses how many BE football schools cared about Notre Dame not playing football? My guess is that 7 old BE football schools did not care so much about Miami being independent in baseball. I can tell you for certain that 8 old BE football schools wanted Notre Dame to play football.

Have we separated the apples from the oranges here. I think so.

As for special deals. I sincerely think the BE has learned from its mistakes in the past with special deals.

Starting with the new basketball TV contracts, TV will no longer dictate which teams have to play home and home series for made for TV. This was one of those special deals that helped TV networks. A welcome and stabilizing change that is much overdue.

Every school will play each other in basketball and either one or three cross over games if the schedule moves to 18 games. Again it will be for fan interest of the schools and not interest of some groups.

There continues to be some issues with leaving four schools behind for the basketball tournament in NYC. I see some of MT points on burn out before NCAA, however, the bad out weights the good in this situation.

All 16 schools should go to NYC to the tournament. End of discussions and many college basketball analyst agree totally with me on this one.

With Miami gone and baseball independence issue out, this is not longer a special interest.

With Temple gone, and all football schools playing all sports, no longer a special interest.

With new TV contract, no selected basketball schedules. Special interest gone.

BCS bid goes to actual BE football champion and not the highest ranked team. Special interest gone that did benefit Miami.

Football revenue is more closing shared except the champion gets more which is really a nice reward. Special interest gone that did benefit Miami.

The way I see it with the new 16 Big East, the only special interest remaining is Notre Dame's ability to play division 1A football and remain an independent.

Once this is corrected, all special interest issues have been resolved.

Big East has learned its lesson or lessons would be my take on the situation.

Yes Miami had special deals for baseball.They average about 5k per game and played a lot home games 35 -40.Not a great profit center but brought in a bout million in revenue with no traveling cost up north.Certainly a nice concession.Also Miami's profit from football was ceratinly much greater than any other football member of the BE.With regard to army and navy there football schedule is half the way there.4 out of 8.By April the BE will have non-BCS bowl in either Indianapolis or Toronto versus a MAC school.This will provide MAC schools playing 1 game per year versus the BE.Furthermore ,Army and Navy will be become affilated in the ND mold with this game.(more in season games plus some tv arrangements)

Another thing, the Big Ten schools make the money off hockey like the SEC, Big 12, Pac-10 do off baseball.

SportsKC, you're referring to only certain Big Ten schools right?

Only Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Wisconsin and Minnesota are the only Big Ten schools that compete nationally in D I Hockey. U of M, MSU and OSU are in the CCHA and Minnesota and Wisconsin are in the WCHA. Also, Notre Dame is a conference member with Michigan, Michigan State and Ohio State in the CCHA. But there's also the MAC schools of Miami U (OH), Bowling Green and Western Michigan that are also members of that league, and 5 D II schools, Ferris State, Lake Superior State, Northern Michigan, the University of Alaska at Fairbanks and the University of Nebraska at Omaha.

Lash,

You're getting off point with your remark about the comment about all the FB schools playing ND. I agree with you in that all wanted ND to play BE FB.

However, my main point was that its funny that Miami was complaining about how 'unfair' it was that ND didnt play BE FB considering that the BE bent over backwards for Miami with the baseball and uneven revenue sharing. I just find it funny. Miami did what it thought was in its best interests - same as ND. The situations are exactly the same, IMO. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

The BE was always about special deals - as a Miami fan you should know that. It's about the money. The BE is only together to make money. It was never about all sports since they added FB. If conference members can make more money together they will stay together. The other conference members have two choices if they don't like the 'special' deals - goto another conference or go independent. BC, VT, and Miami exercised their option to leave.

Anyway, I agree with you in that the BE will do what it can to get better TV deals for BB and FB but we'll see when the next TV deal comes out.

Yep, those were the ones.

PantherSC97, your absolutely correct as I got off subject with Notre Dame football playing BE schedules. My bad!

I do think the BE has corrected most if not all of the past special deals on the football side of the house. Notre Dame was allowed in as independent and that one will take a little longer to correct. This one is credited to the basketball side of the house.

What I think will not happen is new special deals being created for football that almost cost the life of the old Big East.

Army and Navy getting to participate in the Toronto Bowl. Why? The Big East does not need these two mid majors to secure a minor bowl deal.

This is where I disagree with Tigersharktwo.

If the BE football schools need to schedule 8 more games that badly to take Army and Navy and share a bowl deal, then a breakup is unavoidable in 2009.

We may not have to wait until the new TV contract to know which way the BE football schools are going.

Can we all say a 9th all sports member that plays football is the answer! Any guess on how you get one?

Tigersharktwo, every time I start to think the 16 member Big East has a chance, you totally convince me a split is inevitable.

The BE conference is a sound conference that goes from RI in the east to Wisconsin in the west.It does not need any help in bb and does need any more mouths to feed from the same package of bcs and tv money.The inability of some schools who want in to pressure the strength of the conference will not work.Basically this a conference that has members in the eastern part of the b10 and runs in the northeast with little or no other bcs competition.It needs a bit of help in securing a 5th bowl by having enough teams to fill one bcs bowl and 4 non bcs bowls.Its tv contracts will improve.The northeast is significantly different from other rgions of the country.Other bcs conference do well with 12 schools,the BE did well with 14 schools and will do well with 16 schools.

I would inject here, that being spread out, Providence to Milwaukee, is grand only in distance and miles to travel. It is the C-USA theme operating, from Greenville, NC to El Paso, Texas.

Lash,

Just one last point I'd like to make on the BE/ND relationship - I'm not very happy about it - I wish ND would join for all sports but I doubt it would ever happen - just wanted to be clear about it.

Anyway, the conference has shifted from a NE based conference to have the conference around the Ohio Valley so having teams from Prov to Milwaukee is ok (think of the Pac10 in terms of distance). What really brings it down though is USF.

I am a firm believer in that we will know fairly soon whether the cofnerence will stay together. Noteworthy will be the length of the TV contract that will be negotiated soon. The BE contract expires in 2007. Also, MT contract expires in 2010 - so we'll see if they stay together.

Another note is that so far that the Big6 the networks like recently for BB are SU, UConn, UC, UL, VU + one other school. If this continues and if the FB schools get most of the credits from the tourney AND TV appearences (75% or more for both) then it would be in the best interests to split and the 1A FB schools add another one (here is the info I got from another board). In addition, if the NCAA tourney appearences are only 6 per year why stay together? I realize the BE may get 8 but that is only 1 year - you need to consider the future as well.

IT MIGHT be best to add Memphis IF they bring the Liberty bowl because they can also help on the BB side with credits in the future ($11 billion TV deal for the tourney).

http://www.ncaabbs.com/forums/bigeast/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=11735&highlight=&sid=4ce434b16397d069a8941511de237288

PantherSC97, interesting post! Agree with much of the information. I do disagree with you on USF. They play in a great stadium in a great location, with a great market, with great potential for football. I am a long time Florida guy. What more can I say? And most important they really like being in the Big East. Sadly something U of Miami always had lacking.

TV markets will be the driving force to support the large number of teams in the new Big East.

If the contracts are not much better, we need to go right to split and find the 9th team. Guess Memphis is OK. I would not want to make the decision to pick between Memphis and Central Florida.

South Florida and Central Florida rivalry may someday reach the interest level of Miami/FSU or FSU/Florida. Possibly!

Its obvious by now, that I don't prefer any conference going beyond 10 teams for any reason. The SEC was not broken and the Big Ten was not broken and they went ahead and fixed both of them anyway.

The Big East was forced to go to 14 teams to allow for all sports football teams.

Actually what I really preferred which is water under the bridge was Miami, Va Tech, BC, WVU, Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers, UConn splitting and taking Louisville at the 9th sports members. Would have been special.

Now if the Big East has to split and there are many other reasons than just TV contract considerations, the above is close with the exception of Miami.

WVU overrides Va Tech in basketball and soon will in fb
UConn overrides BC in basketball and soon will in fb
IF USF could just catch up to Miami!!!

So -

Pitt, WVU, Syracuse, UConn, Rutgers, Cincinnati, Louisville, USF, and (?)

This week is rivalry week on ESPN

Pitt/WVU and Syracuse/UConn are key players on TV for rivalry week.

The football schools could make a great all sports conference and basketball would be very interesting and maybe more so that the 16 member line up.

The test will be if lots of money can be made on basketball with all those big time markets included in the 16 member league.

Too close yet for me to call on a split. Fits right into to rivalry week. It should be too close to call.

For football the combination of BE tv and BCS money bring in about 3.75 million plus per school.If a 9th football team was added say a Memphis this would cost each of the 8 football teams about 500k each.Another bowl such as the liberty bowl (a non bcs bowl)would not be added but would just be replacing another non bcs bowl for a net gain of just 500k.Thus it would be a large net loss to each of the 8 football schools with less than 10% of the loss made up by the liberty bowl.by the way other non bcs bowls are on the way.

If a conference is a major one/BCS level, then it is assumed with the increase in members, an enhanced number of bowl tie-ins would come with the turf.

In adding a 9th member for an 8 team conference, the desire would be to add a school who has shown potential for post-season play. However, that is not the only factor. In addition to having bb potential/merit, it will need to show healthy or lucrative attendance patterns in fb during the regular season and show it is marketable.

There is a fundamental question for the Big East involving basketball. If the Big East is as deep with quality teams as some suggest, then is there the possibility that the two future conferences resulting from a split will prove just as profitable per school?

If the 8 fb schools, collectively, are distinctly superior in bb, does this not suggest a split be pondered on the profitability matter? This could be inclusive of TV contracts.